Lots of Smoke ...
Guest
Posts: n/a
Lots of Smoke ...
I finally got back from Japan and I'm home for a week after 2 years without driving my scoobie, a 1999 RS with a Ver1/2 WRX EJ20G. Well, while I was away, it broke.
The car starts, but can barely hold an idle. It sounds like a lawnmower, and spews smoke from the exhaust. The check engine light flickers on and off. I'm unable to get an engine code (I have no clue how.) The car is pretty much powerless, and can barely move under its own power.
What should I check to narrow down the possible causes?
Spark plugs
Air filter
Sensors?
Not a gear head but trying really hard to be. Please point me in the right direction, I have 5 days to work on the car to get it running again before I return to Japan, thanks!
I live in the Hampton Roads area in Virginia if any of you live near by and wouldn't mind swinging by to laugh at my car! =b
Thanks!
The car starts, but can barely hold an idle. It sounds like a lawnmower, and spews smoke from the exhaust. The check engine light flickers on and off. I'm unable to get an engine code (I have no clue how.) The car is pretty much powerless, and can barely move under its own power.
What should I check to narrow down the possible causes?
Spark plugs
Air filter
Sensors?
Not a gear head but trying really hard to be. Please point me in the right direction, I have 5 days to work on the car to get it running again before I return to Japan, thanks!
I live in the Hampton Roads area in Virginia if any of you live near by and wouldn't mind swinging by to laugh at my car! =b
Thanks!
VIP Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 270
From: Japan, where the term "JDM" doesn't exist
Car Info: '94 WRX, '97 Forester S/Tb, '95 WRX-RA
Sounds like what happens when your intercooler piping comes off or cracks. If I am not mistaken, the EJ20G still had the hard black plastic intercooler Y-pipe before it got switched to the red rubber one found on the EJ20K? Check that first. If the intake tract looks good, then it may be the idle controller valve/solenoid. They are known to stick in position and cause crappy idle in the forms of rough sputtering idle or 3-4k RPM idle. Also, a new fuel filter and perhaps newer fuel (2 years.... long time for gasoline to sit) may help.
I that still doesn't work, crate up an EJ207 while you are in Japan and ship it home next time you return to the states.
I that still doesn't work, crate up an EJ207 while you are in Japan and ship it home next time you return to the states.
VIP Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
From: Phoenix, AZ
Car Info: Subaru Impreza WRX 2002
Never, EVER let a Subaru sit! I inherited my grandfather's 97 Legacy GT, but while the estate was being disbursed it sat for 1 1/2 years. So far I have had to replace the CV boots, the cam gasket, the head gasket, the front wheel bearings and axle, the timing belt, all other acessory belts and the gas cap seal. It also has an oil leak from the front of the engine (near the timing gears) that drips right on the headers, smells very nice when you pull into the garage -- this is a car with less than 40,000 miles! 
It is bad for any car to sit, but Subarus (perhaps the boxer orientation of the engine?) really seem to suffer if you don't drive them -- they need the pressure of the engine to seat the gaskets and keep them lubricated. The internal engine components seem to degrade fairly fast without being run.
I know this doesn't do you any good, as the damage has been done, but I hope others see this warning -- especially those who are considering buying used engines or crate engines. Personally I wouldn't buy a Subaru engine that has sat for anything more than six months.
EDIT: My guess is bad gaskets (see above) or water in the gas from sitting too long.
It is bad for any car to sit, but Subarus (perhaps the boxer orientation of the engine?) really seem to suffer if you don't drive them -- they need the pressure of the engine to seat the gaskets and keep them lubricated. The internal engine components seem to degrade fairly fast without being run.I know this doesn't do you any good, as the damage has been done, but I hope others see this warning -- especially those who are considering buying used engines or crate engines. Personally I wouldn't buy a Subaru engine that has sat for anything more than six months.
EDIT: My guess is bad gaskets (see above) or water in the gas from sitting too long.
Last edited by meilers; Jul 13, 2005 at 11:35 AM.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ouch
Thanks for the info, I'll check what I can tomorrow, including changing the spark plugs and checking the intake tract. As for gaskets, not much I can do about that by myself. How do I tell if the idle control solenoid/valve assembly is stuck? Never looked at that before, but I'll fiddle with it. Was considering idling the car down to no gas and filling it up again, but I'm afraid all of that smoke will create too much residue.
VIP Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
From: Phoenix, AZ
Car Info: Subaru Impreza WRX 2002
Originally Posted by Nin-Nin
Thanks for the info, I'll check what I can tomorrow, including changing the spark plugs and checking the intake tract. As for gaskets, not much I can do about that by myself. How do I tell if the idle control solenoid/valve assembly is stuck? Never looked at that before, but I'll fiddle with it. Was considering idling the car down to no gas and filling it up again, but I'm afraid all of that smoke will create too much residue.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I've checked the black plastic piping to the intercooler, and it was indeed loose. I tightened it back up again, and the smoke has cleared up a bit. However, it still can't hold an idle. When it starts up, it goes into a warm-up cycle, going up to 3k RPM for a few seconds before dropping down to where I could count the individual fires (about 120 rpm.) It will usually splutter and die after that. I tried turning up the screw on the throttle to get it to idle higher, but it can't get past the warm up routine. There is also an occassional backfire or popping. Check engine light comes on when idle drops below 1000. Sometimes its on, sometimes its not. I wish I had a engine code checker. So probably the idle control valve/solenoid? I guess I'll try to pick one up in Japan again.
Last edited by Nin-Nin; Jul 14, 2005 at 08:54 AM. Reason: Added details
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 106
From: Nebraska
Car Info: 02 Subaru WRX WRB
if it sat for 2 years i would say the gas is prolly no good you should drain as much as you can or if there isn't much left in the tank fill it up with fresh gas and change the spark plugs and defintly change the oil
I know its a little late now, but a car should never sit for very long without being at least started, if not driven around.
Like others have said, your gas probably is bad. Drain it and fill with new gas. It may take a few cycles to get all the old gas out, so don't pound on it right away. Change the oil too. I'd also check all the piping for cracks, loose fittings, spark plugs. There is a whole list of things.
If you don't feel up to it yourself, I'd take it to a local mechanic, preferably a Subaru mechanic and tell them its been sitting and you need them to look it over.
Hope you get it back up and running. Swapped RS's are the coolest cars ever
Like others have said, your gas probably is bad. Drain it and fill with new gas. It may take a few cycles to get all the old gas out, so don't pound on it right away. Change the oil too. I'd also check all the piping for cracks, loose fittings, spark plugs. There is a whole list of things.
If you don't feel up to it yourself, I'd take it to a local mechanic, preferably a Subaru mechanic and tell them its been sitting and you need them to look it over.
Hope you get it back up and running. Swapped RS's are the coolest cars ever
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks for the additional info, I'll try to find some dry gas, and fill it up with new gas. It has about 1/8 tank left. I'll add more fuel to try to mix it out. Couldn't get the plugs changed, just way too tight. Last time I changed plugs, I had to get under the car, but I don't have a jack this time. I hate changing plugs on boxers, especially since this engine, the Ver.1's, have the coil on plug type wires, so the plug is nice and fat. Really difficult to get out!
VIP Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 270
From: Japan, where the term "JDM" doesn't exist
Car Info: '94 WRX, '97 Forester S/Tb, '95 WRX-RA
Change your fuel filter while youre at it. Changing the plugs is indeed tight. As a pervious ver 2 owner, I know what youre saying about the coil pack ignition. I was so happy to get my ver 4 with the central coil steup! Just remove the intake (stock or aftermarket) to access the right side and remove the battery and the windshield wiper reservoir to access the left side. Use a universal right off the plug socket and a long extension. (To access the plugs from under the hood, as opposed to under the car)
NEVER mess with the idle screw. If you can, try to move it back to the factory position. There should have been a white index mark on it to show where it should be. As for the idle controller, suspect that last, if the gas, filter and plugs don't fix your problem. You can tap on it lightly with the butt of a screwdriver to see if it makes any difference. Tap on the assembly below the solenoid too. The screws on the idle control solenoid have index marks also. Loosening these screws and rotating the solenoid in either direction is how your idle is adjusted manually, although you should leave this up to a Subaru Tech to do the adjusting.
NEVER mess with the idle screw. If you can, try to move it back to the factory position. There should have been a white index mark on it to show where it should be. As for the idle controller, suspect that last, if the gas, filter and plugs don't fix your problem. You can tap on it lightly with the butt of a screwdriver to see if it makes any difference. Tap on the assembly below the solenoid too. The screws on the idle control solenoid have index marks also. Loosening these screws and rotating the solenoid in either direction is how your idle is adjusted manually, although you should leave this up to a Subaru Tech to do the adjusting.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Used some gas drying thing today, and it really helped! It stabilized the idle somewhat to where it doesn't die as much anymore. I tried driving it around then, and it does drive now. CEL is still coming on occassionally, but rarely. The car shudders and produces power inconsistantly, but it does move under its own power now. Still not considered driveable yet though. Will try harder on the spark plugs, and I'll try replacing the fuel filter. I've never done that before. Where is it/what does it look like? Also, is there something I should do / be worried about to prevent the fuel from coming out when I unscrew it? Not even sure what part it would be at Advanced Auto... I guess its the same one as the 94 Turbo Legacy? Or the same as the 99 Impreza RS? I might just take it in and see if they have one of the same or similar. I returned the idle screw back to the factory position, and I didn't even bother touching the idle solenoid as it seemed to be quite stuck in that position. I'll tap it once or twice for good measure, gently! ^-^v Exhaust is LOUD (scoobysport 2.5 turbo exhaust, turbo back). Much louder than I remembered or expected. Its full stainless steel down there, so I don't think theres a hole from corrosion, but was my exhaust really this loud?! I knew it was loud, but I was seriously shocked today. But it could have been from all the backfiring, haha. Tomorrow morning, I'll try to replace the spark plugs again, and fuel filter, as well as mixing in more gas and gas dryer. We'll see how much I manage to accomplish while I have time. Thanks for the info and help! So far, there's been tons of progress, so I look forward to more wisdom!
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 672
From: hawaii
Car Info: My 2009 FIT for sale!!!!!!!!!!
my two cents
if you look at your engine bay, its like drivers back side of engine compartment(by drivers shock tower). it should be black(well its black on my wrx)...... has like three hoses coming out of it. its like a size of a vienna sausage can. i would recommend suck out ALL the gas and fill it with new gas like what these guys are saying. the samething is happening with the MINI COOPER/S in hawaii(yes, i fix MINI's.... also BMW). they are experiensing like a dying out feeling-low idle/stalling- and feels like there is no power(lag) when you punch it then power comes back. i would also hook up a fuel pressure guage to the fuel rails and go for a road test"floor it" *make sure you follow ALL your local speed limits and seat belts a must 
*. see if the fuel pressure drops. if it drops it maybe also be a fuel pump problem or something like clogged lines etc. also for the exhaust noise... i think you just not use to it.... i would check all exhaust gaskets(mid pipe, u/d pipe). ANTI-SEIZE is the key for the spark plugs so it does not seize up in the spark plug hole, and get a HUGE rachet and some muscle :banana: hope this helps, let us know what happens.
*. see if the fuel pressure drops. if it drops it maybe also be a fuel pump problem or something like clogged lines etc. also for the exhaust noise... i think you just not use to it.... i would check all exhaust gaskets(mid pipe, u/d pipe). ANTI-SEIZE is the key for the spark plugs so it does not seize up in the spark plug hole, and get a HUGE rachet and some muscle :banana: hope this helps, let us know what happens.
Originally Posted by Nin-Nin
Used some gas drying thing today, and it really helped! It stabilized the idle somewhat to where it doesn't die as much anymore. I tried driving it around then, and it does drive now. CEL is still coming on occassionally, but rarely. The car shudders and produces power inconsistantly, but it does move under its own power now. Still not considered driveable yet though. Will try harder on the spark plugs, and I'll try replacing the fuel filter. I've never done that before. Where is it/what does it look like? Also, is there something I should do / be worried about to prevent the fuel from coming out when I unscrew it? Not even sure what part it would be at Advanced Auto... I guess its the same one as the 94 Turbo Legacy? Or the same as the 99 Impreza RS? I might just take it in and see if they have one of the same or similar. I returned the idle screw back to the factory position, and I didn't even bother touching the idle solenoid as it seemed to be quite stuck in that position. I'll tap it once or twice for good measure, gently! ^-^v Exhaust is LOUD (scoobysport 2.5 turbo exhaust, turbo back). Much louder than I remembered or expected. Its full stainless steel down there, so I don't think theres a hole from corrosion, but was my exhaust really this loud?! I knew it was loud, but I was seriously shocked today. But it could have been from all the backfiring, haha. Tomorrow morning, I'll try to replace the spark plugs again, and fuel filter, as well as mixing in more gas and gas dryer. We'll see how much I manage to accomplish while I have time. Thanks for the info and help! So far, there's been tons of progress, so I look forward to more wisdom!
Guest
Posts: n/a
I just tried to suck out all the gas but the only gas pump they had at Advanced Auto was a rubber tube one. Well, that one doesn't reach down into the bottom of the gas tank. It will not go in any further, and can't reach the gas. I gave up after about an hour of trying to get that tube down to the bottom. It just won't feed in anymore. I changed the fuel filter, dousing myself and a 3 foot radius area around me with gas. After I got off my high, I started it up again and drove it around. It is again still drivable and it pulls a little bit now, but sometimes it will shudder and not wanna pull anymore. So, after the engine cools, going to take out the air filter box, washer fluid tank and battery and attempt to change the spark plugs, (for real this time... been talking about it for forever, but I just can't get myself to take that stuff apart.)
I'm starting to suspect the fuel pump now. Its making a noticiable noise when the car is running. When I put my key in and turn it into the ready position (not start), the fuel pump cycles and pressurizes the fuel line as it should. However, the noise level is much higher than I remember it being. From outside the car, its a noticiable whine. I'm going to guess its gone bad. I don't remember what the replacement fuel pump was for a RS. I had an aftermarket one put in (Holley? Can't remember) because of the switch over to a turbo engine. Any recommendations for a fuel pump?
Thanks again!
I'm starting to suspect the fuel pump now. Its making a noticiable noise when the car is running. When I put my key in and turn it into the ready position (not start), the fuel pump cycles and pressurizes the fuel line as it should. However, the noise level is much higher than I remember it being. From outside the car, its a noticiable whine. I'm going to guess its gone bad. I don't remember what the replacement fuel pump was for a RS. I had an aftermarket one put in (Holley? Can't remember) because of the switch over to a turbo engine. Any recommendations for a fuel pump?
Thanks again!
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (10)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,426
From: 865 A Sweetser Ave.Novato, CA (new shop smell too)
Car Info: MY04 STi some call it a race car
Well, the fuel pump is supposed to whine, it's normal. But if you want to upgrade, Walbro 255 lph is the upgraded fuel pump everyone uses.
I would have to agree with everyone else about the fuel. It's old and has probably accumulated some moisture/condensation over the years. When I lived in Colorado for years we had to use a gas dryer, basically it's rubbing alcohol (HEET) was the brand. Otherwise the cars would NOT run properly, they would do exactly what you're describing. The flashing CEL is usually caused by misfires. Which essentially is happening since your gas is not burning completely or properly. Hope this helps.
-Adam
I would have to agree with everyone else about the fuel. It's old and has probably accumulated some moisture/condensation over the years. When I lived in Colorado for years we had to use a gas dryer, basically it's rubbing alcohol (HEET) was the brand. Otherwise the cars would NOT run properly, they would do exactly what you're describing. The flashing CEL is usually caused by misfires. Which essentially is happening since your gas is not burning completely or properly. Hope this helps.
-Adam