Wrx Vrs S4
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From: Reston VA (not dead, just reston)
Car Info: '02 WRX TurboXS Stage 4
Wrx Vrs S4
So, does any one know what the performance specs are on the S4? How does the WRX stack up against it? a link to a sight that has the info will suffice. I have not been able to find out anything on the S4.
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If I remember correctly the S4's 0 - 60 and 1/4 mile times are very close to the WRX. I think the S4 is 2.7L v6 biturbo ~250 HP. Of course I could be completely wrong.
A friend of mine drives one but due to the fact that he is a better driver than me and I don't really feel like getting a large ticket I have not tried to race him
A friend of mine drives one but due to the fact that he is a better driver than me and I don't really feel like getting a large ticket I have not tried to race him
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 162
From: Reston VA (not dead, just reston)
Car Info: '02 WRX TurboXS Stage 4
My friend has one too and sooner or later we are giong to go at it. Know your enemy, especialy if he's your friend. Thats why I posted in the first place.
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From: LA - school
Car Info: ayo for yayo
stock for stock, froma stop, its a drivers race.
but if the s4 driver wants to race from a roll, FUHGETABOUTIT! biturbo v6 = big trouble
also, a chip messes with boost, air/fuel etc and dishes out a nice healthy serving of horspower and more importantly torque.
but if the s4 driver wants to race from a roll, FUHGETABOUTIT! biturbo v6 = big trouble
also, a chip messes with boost, air/fuel etc and dishes out a nice healthy serving of horspower and more importantly torque.
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From: Bay Area
Car Info: 2002 MBP WRX, 2012 OBP STi wagon
Yeah, stock for stock, from a stop, it's a driver's race. From a roll, he's got the advantage of a healthy dose of V6 power even without the bi-turbo. And remember, the S4 has better gearing with the 6 speed manual, so the power distribution is a bit more even. Plus, the S4's torque peaks at a VERY low RPM, so it can go fast while towing a trailer 
. Also remember, the bi-turbo system of the Audi V6 2.7L V6 can handle a lot more boost than our tiny turbos, making them easier to squeeze performance out of with just a chip. Modded, well, again, it depends. The chips for the Audi/VW have been around a lot longer and cost less than equivalent chips for the WRX. HOWEVER, ask Shiv about those, since he doesn't think they are all that great (in fact, he's very sarcastic about the nature of the gains, saying it depends on temperature, humidity, air pressure, and the phases of the moon, or something to that effect ). Now, everyone has seen the results of well tuned WRXs on these boards, but remember that the S4 can get similar performance with similar good tuning, so again, it becomes a drivers race with both cars being roughly equal performance-mod wise.
Think about it this way. To buy an S4, you pay about 40-45k, but the mods cost a bit less to get decent performance (an Audi chip stage 2 turbo upgrade is something like 5-600 bucks). To buy a WRX, you pay about 25k, but spend more on the mods to get the healthy dose of performance these cars have the potential for. In the end, he paid more for a similar performing car than you did, albeit one with loads of luxury and a heavy *** (something like 500 more pounds than our cars, IIRC), but he's got the luxury appointments to go with it. You got a car that has similar stock performance for about 15K less.
I don't remember which major auto magazine did a shootout on AWD sports cars (motor trend/car and driver/road and track), but they pitted the WRX, the S4, and the BMW 330cxi against each other. The results of the testing were mixed, with the WRX and the S4 trading leads various tests, and the 330 coming in a dismal third. The S4 came out on top based on the tester's feedback, followed by the WRX, but the writer of the article said something to the effect of "the S4 was the 'better car' from our tester's viewpoints, but was it $15k better? Probably not." Food for thought.
I did this from memory based on when I was doing my research before buying my WRX. Actually, the only reason I didn't buy the S4 was because of the A4 body redesign that year. I didn't want to get stuck with the old S4 body style and the weight, nor did I want to get the mediocre gas mileage the S4 has. Who knows, if they ever come out with a redesigned S4, I may look at it again, but for now, I'm damn happy with my WRX.
shadowcat
. Also remember, the bi-turbo system of the Audi V6 2.7L V6 can handle a lot more boost than our tiny turbos, making them easier to squeeze performance out of with just a chip. Modded, well, again, it depends. The chips for the Audi/VW have been around a lot longer and cost less than equivalent chips for the WRX. HOWEVER, ask Shiv about those, since he doesn't think they are all that great (in fact, he's very sarcastic about the nature of the gains, saying it depends on temperature, humidity, air pressure, and the phases of the moon, or something to that effect ). Now, everyone has seen the results of well tuned WRXs on these boards, but remember that the S4 can get similar performance with similar good tuning, so again, it becomes a drivers race with both cars being roughly equal performance-mod wise. Think about it this way. To buy an S4, you pay about 40-45k, but the mods cost a bit less to get decent performance (an Audi chip stage 2 turbo upgrade is something like 5-600 bucks). To buy a WRX, you pay about 25k, but spend more on the mods to get the healthy dose of performance these cars have the potential for. In the end, he paid more for a similar performing car than you did, albeit one with loads of luxury and a heavy ***
(something like 500 more pounds than our cars, IIRC), but he's got the luxury appointments to go with it. You got a car that has similar stock performance for about 15K less.I don't remember which major auto magazine did a shootout on AWD sports cars (motor trend/car and driver/road and track), but they pitted the WRX, the S4, and the BMW 330cxi against each other. The results of the testing were mixed, with the WRX and the S4 trading leads various tests, and the 330 coming in a dismal third. The S4 came out on top based on the tester's feedback, followed by the WRX, but the writer of the article said something to the effect of "the S4 was the 'better car' from our tester's viewpoints, but was it $15k better? Probably not." Food for thought.
I did this from memory based on when I was doing my research before buying my WRX. Actually, the only reason I didn't buy the S4 was because of the A4 body redesign that year. I didn't want to get stuck with the old S4 body style and the weight, nor did I want to get the mediocre gas mileage the S4 has. Who knows, if they ever come out with a redesigned S4, I may look at it again, but for now, I'm damn happy with my WRX.
shadowcat
Last edited by shadowcat; Dec 17, 2002 at 05:47 AM.
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I drove a 2001 S4 25K miles before selling it and buying a WRX. I loved my S, but couldn't justify the cost with a wife and infant. Having spent lots of seat time in both (15K miles in WRX), subjectively here's the way I see it (in stock trim): They are entirely different cars built for different people, they just happen to have a turbo and AWD, so people compare them. The S4 is a luxury (with performance) car and the WRX is a rally-derived performance car.
Even more subjectively:
Torque: S4 wins hands down (objectively speaking). From a standing or rolling start the S is a lot more tractable and gives you full torque at 1850 rpm all the way to 5K. It's a much more usable engine around town. The WRX needs RPM's to get to full boil (3K or so), but when it does it seems to be every bit the S's equal. And the next gen S will not have forced induction, so not as many gains from chip tuning.
Handling/drivability: WRX wins, for my tastes. Try as I might I could not get my S4 to handle in as many fun ways as the WRX. Every car I test drive I take down a road with an S curve, and I take each car through it at the same rate of speed (about 35 mph). The S4 came through buttoned down and as unruffled as suits a luxury performance car. The WRX I could coax sideways and even stay on the gas as the car pulled out of the turn. Both cars seemed to come out at about the same speed, but the WRX was more fun to drive.
And the C&D article rightfully pointed out that the S4's 6 sp trans is not nearly as clean as the WRX's. As much as some guys complain about the WRX's shifting, in stock form it is the gold standard compared to the S4.
Interior: depends on what you want. The S4 is a luxury car. That means higher quality materials, quieter highway speeds and a sunroof. But I don't miss any of that one bit, in fact I'm glad I don't have to worry about scratches (whatever Audi/VW makes their doors/dash out of will get marked and CANNOT be cleaned), and the WRX seats are MUCH more comfortable for my 5'11", 180lb frame.
Breakability quotient: WRX wins. The Audiworld board (http://www.audiworld.com/forum/m/s4/) is full of stories of broken S4's, dealer mishaps, and dealership fury over massaged ECU's. The WRX (transmission troubles notwithstanding) doesn't have the same kind of posts. The S's little non-sequential turbo's don't stand up to a lot of tuning gains, nor do their 2 tiny IC's. Plus, the S is a heavy car and needs a lot of work to lighten (even the std wheels are almost 30 lbs vs the WRX's 16 lbs).
I know you asked about performance, but to my mind I would need to address the factors that make the S and the WRX different to make a fair compare and contrast. The S and WRX are fairly matched in most performance categories, the S4 has more usable power down low and is easier to drive fast on the Autobahn. The WRX is more fun in the twisties and the engine is just as good above 3000 rpm's.
To be honest, I'm very happy with my WRX, but miss the S4's panache and luxury, but I don't miss the $4's monthly payment or those pan-hard seats and rubbery shifter. The WRX is worth more than it's sticker price (the cheapy interior materials notwithstanding) because of its FEEL: the fanstastic handling and tunable engine--it's a sports car. But with the S4 you get what you pay for: sophistication and luxury with a huge dose of sportiness.
Even more subjectively:
Torque: S4 wins hands down (objectively speaking). From a standing or rolling start the S is a lot more tractable and gives you full torque at 1850 rpm all the way to 5K. It's a much more usable engine around town. The WRX needs RPM's to get to full boil (3K or so), but when it does it seems to be every bit the S's equal. And the next gen S will not have forced induction, so not as many gains from chip tuning.
Handling/drivability: WRX wins, for my tastes. Try as I might I could not get my S4 to handle in as many fun ways as the WRX. Every car I test drive I take down a road with an S curve, and I take each car through it at the same rate of speed (about 35 mph). The S4 came through buttoned down and as unruffled as suits a luxury performance car. The WRX I could coax sideways and even stay on the gas as the car pulled out of the turn. Both cars seemed to come out at about the same speed, but the WRX was more fun to drive.
And the C&D article rightfully pointed out that the S4's 6 sp trans is not nearly as clean as the WRX's. As much as some guys complain about the WRX's shifting, in stock form it is the gold standard compared to the S4.
Interior: depends on what you want. The S4 is a luxury car. That means higher quality materials, quieter highway speeds and a sunroof. But I don't miss any of that one bit, in fact I'm glad I don't have to worry about scratches (whatever Audi/VW makes their doors/dash out of will get marked and CANNOT be cleaned), and the WRX seats are MUCH more comfortable for my 5'11", 180lb frame.
Breakability quotient: WRX wins. The Audiworld board (http://www.audiworld.com/forum/m/s4/) is full of stories of broken S4's, dealer mishaps, and dealership fury over massaged ECU's. The WRX (transmission troubles notwithstanding) doesn't have the same kind of posts. The S's little non-sequential turbo's don't stand up to a lot of tuning gains, nor do their 2 tiny IC's. Plus, the S is a heavy car and needs a lot of work to lighten (even the std wheels are almost 30 lbs vs the WRX's 16 lbs).
I know you asked about performance, but to my mind I would need to address the factors that make the S and the WRX different to make a fair compare and contrast. The S and WRX are fairly matched in most performance categories, the S4 has more usable power down low and is easier to drive fast on the Autobahn. The WRX is more fun in the twisties and the engine is just as good above 3000 rpm's.
To be honest, I'm very happy with my WRX, but miss the S4's panache and luxury, but I don't miss the $4's monthly payment or those pan-hard seats and rubbery shifter. The WRX is worth more than it's sticker price (the cheapy interior materials notwithstanding) because of its FEEL: the fanstastic handling and tunable engine--it's a sports car. But with the S4 you get what you pay for: sophistication and luxury with a huge dose of sportiness.
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From: Glen Cove New York
Car Info: 87 944 Turbo Porsche -
funny i just drove a 2001 s4 at my shop..And i have to say its very nice..but for the price???? No way!!! you cant find one used or under 35k now thats a lot of money in my opinon,,,Its fast and very lux but still for that money THERES a lot more to be bought....
In fact a good friend has one with a complete chip remap and 19in bbs rims and all i have to say its a very fast car and the handling is absolutly amazing. I can say around turns his car can take me for a lesson but on the high way he can barley JUST barely pull right next to me(944 turbo stage 2 chip, boost enhancer,) so IMP the s4 is just an overpriced vw thas just waiting to break down and COST A LOT TO FIX cause theres no room to fit your finger in the eng. bay let alone actually doing any serious work(ex. water pump,belts, tranny work,clutch) Thats gonna be a NIGHTMARE TO EVEN THINK About. comparing it to the wrx i dont know cause i never drove one so i wont try but from what i hear ..a 50k vw is not much more of a "race" car thn a 22k subaru...Praise the ****
I have never drove a wrx (i raced a few stock form and i can say i pull on them with no problem.) has anyone drove a 944 turbo and can they give me a opinon comparing them both..? I am very intersted in buying a wrx regardless but i would like to know if anyone has any experience about the two.. Thankx all
In fact a good friend has one with a complete chip remap and 19in bbs rims and all i have to say its a very fast car and the handling is absolutly amazing. I can say around turns his car can take me for a lesson but on the high way he can barley JUST barely pull right next to me(944 turbo stage 2 chip, boost enhancer,) so IMP the s4 is just an overpriced vw thas just waiting to break down and COST A LOT TO FIX cause theres no room to fit your finger in the eng. bay let alone actually doing any serious work(ex. water pump,belts, tranny work,clutch) Thats gonna be a NIGHTMARE TO EVEN THINK About. comparing it to the wrx i dont know cause i never drove one so i wont try but from what i hear ..a 50k vw is not much more of a "race" car thn a 22k subaru...Praise the ****
I have never drove a wrx (i raced a few stock form and i can say i pull on them with no problem.) has anyone drove a 944 turbo and can they give me a opinon comparing them both..? I am very intersted in buying a wrx regardless but i would like to know if anyone has any experience about the two.. Thankx all
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Car Info: '02 WRX TurboXS Stage 4
(OneFast944Turbo
We are talking about the S4, not the A4, when you said A did you mean S?)
Obviously it's not an ideal comparison but neither is comparing it to the other AWD cars like: BMW iX sport minded or not it's still and SUV, Carrera 4 it's a Porsche, A4 probably comes closest when you factor in the price but without the TurboV6 it's no mach in terms of performance, Passat 4Motion simply cant compete in any performance category. This is how the story goes. No car on the road can compete in terms of performance, cost, and utility when taken as a whole the Audi S4 seems to be the a good competitor. Performance, utility and AWD make it a good comparison regardless of the Audi's luxury intent and at around 15 grand more it's much closer than the Carrera and let's face it nobody can really compete with Porsche. If you don't believe that you don't know enough about Porsche road cars. Throw every thing else out the window and the driving dynamic's of the Porsche by them selves will settle any dispute.
and if I was saving for the best I'd buy a Carrera 4.-After 3o years of taking the bus.
Just my $.02
We are talking about the S4, not the A4, when you said A did you mean S?)
Obviously it's not an ideal comparison but neither is comparing it to the other AWD cars like: BMW iX sport minded or not it's still and SUV, Carrera 4 it's a Porsche, A4 probably comes closest when you factor in the price but without the TurboV6 it's no mach in terms of performance, Passat 4Motion simply cant compete in any performance category. This is how the story goes. No car on the road can compete in terms of performance, cost, and utility when taken as a whole the Audi S4 seems to be the a good competitor. Performance, utility and AWD make it a good comparison regardless of the Audi's luxury intent and at around 15 grand more it's much closer than the Carrera and let's face it nobody can really compete with Porsche. If you don't believe that you don't know enough about Porsche road cars. Throw every thing else out the window and the driving dynamic's of the Porsche by them selves will settle any dispute.
and if I was saving for the best I'd buy a Carrera 4.-After 3o years of taking the bus.
Just my $.02
Last edited by Andersonwrx; Dec 18, 2002 at 08:20 PM.
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My Dad has a S4 and I have a WRX. We both love our cars and both like the others but like our own more. This shows you the attitude of each. The S4 is an office that has been redesigned to drive fast. The WRX is a racecar that they added a few creature comforts to. If I have my engine in the 4,000+ mode I'm just as fast as he is. He has torque all over the place though. The are very different. WRX has seats and shifter of gold, and a great price tag. Audi has a better look to some. The gas milage is the same in both cars. We work at the same place and drive the same drive everyday and get very similar numbers. I get a little better than he does when I behave, but when I drive quickly we get the same so I might get 1 or 2 more miles to the gallon. We trade cars every so often, but We both like our own cars better. I'm sure some of this is the fact we are used to the one we own. The wrx is .1 faster 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile by the test that compared all the cars from above, but the S4 beat the WRX around the track by 2 seconds a lap and we beat the BMW by the same. WRX are untouched offroad, but on the street the S$ has much better handling speed wise. Also with the lower torque on the S4, you better downshift if you want a chance to keep up at highway speed. S4 in 6th blows away the wrx in 5th at 50-70mph. Again they are both great cars, but for the money the wrx wins everytime. Also if you want to mod at all get the wrx as you can find a mod friendly subaru dealer a lot easier and if you drop $40k on a WRX it will KILL a stock S4!
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This is a good one as both are great cars. I would love to look out my window and see both in my drive way. But given the choice I must say go with the WRX is the winner. 15 to 20k extra for the S4 is really what makes the difference I just cant justify it. Before thw WRX and Legacy I test drove the A-4 , S-4, and TT and while I loved them all they just weren't woth the extra cash. And see 2 cars for the same price.
Now granted saying "I drive a Subaru" doesn't sound the same as "I drive an AUDI" and the star burst might not be as cool as the rings but the Subaru AWD system is in my opinion superior to the Quatro system.
A sporty WRX or a "refined" sporty S4. If you really need the German Quattro engineering just do what I did and get a rottie.
Now granted saying "I drive a Subaru" doesn't sound the same as "I drive an AUDI" and the star burst might not be as cool as the rings but the Subaru AWD system is in my opinion superior to the Quatro system.
A sporty WRX or a "refined" sporty S4. If you really need the German Quattro engineering just do what I did and get a rottie.