Hi guys, I'll start by introducing myself I'm a DSM guy, I have a 91 AWD Talon that I do all the work on (never trust dealers), my best time to date is a 13.2@ 105mph, I am very comfortable working on my DSm but I can't say the same for my friends Subaru.

I came here in need of a little help, 3 days ago my friend took his subaru legacy to the dealer to have the timing belt replaced as it was about that time mileage wise.

Yesterday his wife was driving the car and the CE light came on, she immediately pulled over and called us. She said that some smoke was coming out from under the hood so we grabbed some coolant and went to find her.

By the time we got to her the car was already cool, I popped the hood and noticed that the rad cap wasn't on fully (it was on the first notch, not fully tight at the second notch). It took about 1L of coolant not including the over flow tank (so the rad wasn't completely drained). The engine would turn over but no start, it soundded like it was getting no compresion. I checked for spark and it was fine (dam those plug wires are a ***** to get at), I would have took off the plastic cover to see if the belt was turning but I didn't have my tools with me.

So my question is does the rad have to be drained when doing a timing belt on the subaru boxter engine? I am not familiar with the engines so I can't picture if the hoses have to be removed or moved out of the way to get access to the front of the engine. I see that the manual says relocate the coolant over flow tank.

The dealer is saying that this is not their fault and just the pats alone are going to be $3000 (Canadian). They are obviously trying to get out of their mistake, especially since the car is well maintained, the rad itself is like new and last weekend we took it for a 400k drive.

Any help would be appreciated, I want to arm him with as much info as possible, I am pretty sure the rad cap not being on tight was the cause of the car overheating, and I am 100% sue the last one to touch anywhere in the engine compartment was the dealer. I just hate it when shops try and screw people like this!

thanks,
Vince

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, I didn't see any "help me" forum.

 

Thaks for the quick reply.

He just spoke to the dealer, they said he has no cmpression in 2 cylinders. They also said that they are not going to take responsability for the damage regardless if they put the rad cap back on properly or not.

F'n dealers! The only thing he can do now is pay to have it towed to another mechanic, get it fixed and then try to get the money back in court.

Does antone have a shop manual, or access to one? I would like to be able to say in court that it is propler prosedure to drain the coolant, move the rad or hoses, this making them liable for the damages.

 

If it's a Subaru dealer then your friend needs to call Subaru and ask for their assistance.

Also, tell the dealer you will be contacting the better business bureau and the state's attorney office, if they don't fix what is their responsibility.

So, he pretty admitted that they may have left the rad. cap off and then said, it doesn't matter as they won't take responsibility. Oh really?
Then why did they take the job? You have the receipt of when the work was done. You know what is involved in getting the part replaced. You have a dealer who is admitting that maybe they did mess up but won't take responsibility for it anyway. I think you'll be fine in court if that's where it needs to go.

This has happened to me and I took it to another dealer shop that works on the same brand. They found the problem and fixed it. I explained what happened and asked for their professional assessement and they said that the person who did the first repair made an error. I then contacted the owner of the first dealer shop and informed him of this. I got a check for the repair.

Anyway, did the head gasket blow? Is the head warped from the heat?
Why is there no compression?
Was the best installed properly?

How many miles were driven after they picked up the car from the repair?

T

 

no you dont have to have the radiator out to change the timing belt,just the fans,i work at a subaru dealership---dont even have to take the hoses off either.

 

So you are saying that they don't ahve to drain the rad? What does the shop manual say, it is important to me.

Either way it doesn't matter now, the dealor has said we're not going to take respnosability for their mistake and my friend has said i'll see you in court.

The car is at his mechanic's shop, the only reason he did the timing belt at the dealor instead if his own mechanic was becasue his mechanic said that since Subaru did these all the time it would be better to take it to them... oh the irony.

I am not sure what the dealor did to the car as far as dammage assesment goes, they just told him he had 0 compression in 2 cylinders, I am guessing they just did a compression check. I wish I would have had my tools with me so I could have taken off the timing belt cover and inspect their work, for all I know the belt could have jumped a few teeth and they are just blaming the rad cap being loose.

Thanks again for the replies

 

having replaced hundreds of timing belts on 2.2's and 2.5's i have never had to drain the radiator. is the engine an 2.5? if so those can be quite a job to line all the marks. and if you do it wrong, there is no going back once you crank it over. 2.2s i think are listed as interference, but i have never had one bend valves. hope things work out for him.

o yeah, i am also a dsm driver. 95 talon tsi. love it!


-PJ

 

It's a 98 legacy, not sure if it's a 2.2 or a 2.5L though. Probably 2.2 because he’s not into performance 9a car is just transportation to him) so he would probably go with the 2.2L and save some money... I’ll try to remember to ask him.

So it is possible to do the job without touching the coolant system. what does the manual say though? If it says you do touch he coolant system he could use this in his favor.

I love my talon, they are so easy to work on, the 1g engine bay has so much space compared to most cars these days, the 2g's it's a little tighter. AWD turbo, can't go wrong there

 

you know i don't know what the manual says. the only part of the coolant system you have to remove the exspansion tank. its conected to the fans, so it has to go. other than that, nothing else should be touched. unless he was a really bad mech. and wanted the extra space w/o the rad. there. the would also add some time and labor to the price.

my tsi has been great. besides the thermo. sticking shut, and making me wonder if i had blown my head gasket! all good though. i have an fwd though. couldn't find an awd...

-PJ

 

Take it to SOA about what should have been done and proper procedure for doing a timing belt. SOA has sided with at least one individual against a dealership. In the end the dealership did more then just pay for a motor. They paid for a car.

 

did everyone have a good weekend?

Please excuse me but I am unfamiliar with SOA. I am guessing it stands for Subaru of America or something similar?

I am not sure if I mentioned this before but I am in Canada but I'm sure the governing bodies would be similar. Are they helpful in situations like this, or are they more inclined to be on the dealer's side. As of now this particular dealer is giving Subaru a terrible reputation.

As of today my buddies mechanic has said that ti's not worth repairing the engine and is looking for a replacement. He will be tearing into the engine today to find out exactly what happened and to gather evidence against the dealership that made this mess.

X1_SRT, I wouldn't even look at anything else but AWD when looking for my car, FWD is fun but AWD just plane kicks ***.

 

yeah, i know how much awd rules. i have driven many subarus, both modified and stock. they are very fun indeed! even though you are in canada, i am sure it would be the same as in the states. just contact the main headquarters. good luck.


-PJ

 

Did your friend change the water pump also?

Because I recommend doing the water pump when the timing belt is off.

It saves you money because if the water pump goes, they will charge you to remove the timing belt so they can replace the water pump.

And if your friend did change the water pump then coolant will be lost on the removal of the pump.
That will also mean the tech. had to remove the cap to fill the coolant and to also bleed the air out of the coolant system.

So if they changed the water pump then yes they have to pay for the head gasket that they fried.