New STi Too Expensive?
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Originally posted by ObsidianRS
You talking about the $30k Impreza WRX STi or the $500k WRC car here?
You talking about the $30k Impreza WRX STi or the $500k WRC car here?
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Right. I'd take the STi auto-xing and maybe some light off-road dirt fun, but actual rallying? Nah... Maybe a new chasis, like what some of the GravelCrew in SoCal do (roll-bars galore) and a bunch of super strong suspension work... otherwise, the thing will fall apart in no time.
It's like at the Petersen Preview in LA, I guess someone asked the rally driver (ugh, forget who was there... I got there late)... "What's the difference between this car and your WRC car?" and he just laughed and was like "Everything... including a few hundred thosand dollars..."
It's like at the Petersen Preview in LA, I guess someone asked the rally driver (ugh, forget who was there... I got there late)... "What's the difference between this car and your WRC car?" and he just laughed and was like "Everything... including a few hundred thosand dollars..."
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Well, I hate to say this, but that was one guys opinion of a WRC preped car. There are lots of guys running stock Subarus at a competative level here in the US and canada (Like Pat Richards original RS). The only real thing upgraded is the shocks and springs, and part of that is because we didn't have the STi suspension readily available here. Our Rally car has gone through two seasons on the stock suspensions bushings, and were only replaced for fear of possibly someday failing, not because they had. Subarus in general will take a ton of abuse, but the STi will take even more. If you bought a Landrover, would you be afraid it wouldn't hold up if you took it off road? No, because that's what it was built for. Same goes for the STi Impreza. It was built for Rally. 
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From: Roseville, CA
Car Info: 1995 Subaru Impreza 1.8 L
Well the STI does have a stiffly design suspension along with Summer tires... I wouldnt run stock like that in a rally, i'd have to put in a rally suspension and rally tires of course.
As for the comments by jwzekas, I tend to disagree about the "transportation" issue. Yes, the STI is $30,000 and a compact car, but despite comparisons to cars like the EVO and the Civic, the new gen was designed first and formost as a $25,000 car for the world rally, not as a $15,000 car with stuff tacked on later.
Perhaps you may think it is not worth that much money because you want some sort of luxury and such, but then again perhaps you are looking at the wrong car if you believe that you need a car that is for transportation and comfort. Personally, I would drive an STI as my daily driver as well, but I dont care about hauling around people or children as that is not my current situation (Heck, thats why my 95 L is decked out entirely for handling and is too stiff for most people to live with) nor are there many folks here who care about luxury and comfort as much as they care about peformance.
Despite all this, I think the STI would be fine for you with the type of ride that it has. Granted, it wont be as soft as a 3-series but it wont be as stiff as say an S2000. If your family can deal with that, then you are ok. If not, then you might want to just get a plain jane WRX wagon and be done with it.
As for the comments by jwzekas, I tend to disagree about the "transportation" issue. Yes, the STI is $30,000 and a compact car, but despite comparisons to cars like the EVO and the Civic, the new gen was designed first and formost as a $25,000 car for the world rally, not as a $15,000 car with stuff tacked on later.
Perhaps you may think it is not worth that much money because you want some sort of luxury and such, but then again perhaps you are looking at the wrong car if you believe that you need a car that is for transportation and comfort. Personally, I would drive an STI as my daily driver as well, but I dont care about hauling around people or children as that is not my current situation (Heck, thats why my 95 L is decked out entirely for handling and is too stiff for most people to live with) nor are there many folks here who care about luxury and comfort as much as they care about peformance.
Despite all this, I think the STI would be fine for you with the type of ride that it has. Granted, it wont be as soft as a 3-series but it wont be as stiff as say an S2000. If your family can deal with that, then you are ok. If not, then you might want to just get a plain jane WRX wagon and be done with it.
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From Car and Driver Magazine:
"The car's (RX-8) real promise is sports-car satisfaction combined with genuine four-seat practicality. And the icing on the cake is a bargain window sticker. The base price for the RX-8 is $25,180, although that's for a 210-hp entry-level version with a four-speed automatic. But even the 250-hp, six-speed model starts at only $27,200, and prices barely top $33,000 even if you check every box on the options list.
To judge how well Mazda has achieved its goal of delivering an unbeatable combination of performance, practicality, and price, we put the new RX-8 up against two similarly well-rounded competitors.
The most obvious RX-8 rival is the recently introduced Infiniti G35 coupe. The G35 adds a larger body and rear seat to an elongated version of the chassis used by the outstanding Nissan 350Z. Many of us find the G35 to have a better-proportioned and more graceful profile than the Z's. And with a 280-hp version of Nissan's 3.5-liter V-6, 18-inch wheels and tires, and Brembo brakes, the G35 six-speed coupe is a serious sporting machine.
Even more directly focused toward speed is the Ford SVT Mustang Cobra. This final development of the current Mustang generation, which traces its bloodline to the 1978 Ford Fairmont, is also the best to date, combining a 390-hp supercharged four-cam V-8 with an independent rear suspension. The result is a car that is more refined than we thought possible. Equipped with a functional rear seat, which has always been one of the Mustang's advantages over the late and lamented Camaro, the Cobra combines utility with 12-second quarter-mile times for a reasonable 35 grand."
Mustang SVT Cobra: 390 hp, 0-60 in 4.6 secs, $34,750 "Omnipresent power,
exuberant oversteer, tight construction, large trunk"
Infiniti G35 Coupe: 280 hp, 3500 lbs, $37,465 (fully loaded) "Beautiful styling,
gutsy V-6, luxurious interior, fine road manners"
Mazda RX-8: 250 hp, 2940 lbs, $28,300 (loaded) "Responsive and capable
chassis, excellent package, light weight, great value"
========================
"The car's (RX-8) real promise is sports-car satisfaction combined with genuine four-seat practicality. And the icing on the cake is a bargain window sticker. The base price for the RX-8 is $25,180, although that's for a 210-hp entry-level version with a four-speed automatic. But even the 250-hp, six-speed model starts at only $27,200, and prices barely top $33,000 even if you check every box on the options list.
To judge how well Mazda has achieved its goal of delivering an unbeatable combination of performance, practicality, and price, we put the new RX-8 up against two similarly well-rounded competitors.
The most obvious RX-8 rival is the recently introduced Infiniti G35 coupe. The G35 adds a larger body and rear seat to an elongated version of the chassis used by the outstanding Nissan 350Z. Many of us find the G35 to have a better-proportioned and more graceful profile than the Z's. And with a 280-hp version of Nissan's 3.5-liter V-6, 18-inch wheels and tires, and Brembo brakes, the G35 six-speed coupe is a serious sporting machine.
Even more directly focused toward speed is the Ford SVT Mustang Cobra. This final development of the current Mustang generation, which traces its bloodline to the 1978 Ford Fairmont, is also the best to date, combining a 390-hp supercharged four-cam V-8 with an independent rear suspension. The result is a car that is more refined than we thought possible. Equipped with a functional rear seat, which has always been one of the Mustang's advantages over the late and lamented Camaro, the Cobra combines utility with 12-second quarter-mile times for a reasonable 35 grand."
Mustang SVT Cobra: 390 hp, 0-60 in 4.6 secs, $34,750 "Omnipresent power,
exuberant oversteer, tight construction, large trunk"
Infiniti G35 Coupe: 280 hp, 3500 lbs, $37,465 (fully loaded) "Beautiful styling,
gutsy V-6, luxurious interior, fine road manners"
Mazda RX-8: 250 hp, 2940 lbs, $28,300 (loaded) "Responsive and capable
chassis, excellent package, light weight, great value"
========================
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please don put any american cars on this website such as the cobra...it may be cheaper and faster but as soon as u pull outta the parking lot, the car just breaks....and subaru is "the beauty of all wheel drive"
ill be laughing when we all smoke ur car and we will tear u up, thats if ur car hasnt broke already
american cars have the most problems with it, thats why i dont get it...i know i can get 2 brand new mustangs instead of the STi, by what would i want american@$$ p0s?
i bet everyone here who is a japanese car lover and subaru fan knows what i am saying.
american cars may have power now, but where the hell are all of the technology in their cars??? its friggn 21st century and everyone goes for technology now and days..i dont know about the american industy because half their stuff breaks when u get outtta the parking lot.
cobras dont have DCCD, AWD,Turbo, HIDs, Decent looking rims, or any thought into their cars...all they industry does is try to make the car faster and faster with the same crappy@$s styling
-O4STi
ill be laughing when we all smoke ur car and we will tear u up, thats if ur car hasnt broke already
american cars have the most problems with it, thats why i dont get it...i know i can get 2 brand new mustangs instead of the STi, by what would i want american@$$ p0s?
i bet everyone here who is a japanese car lover and subaru fan knows what i am saying.
american cars may have power now, but where the hell are all of the technology in their cars??? its friggn 21st century and everyone goes for technology now and days..i dont know about the american industy because half their stuff breaks when u get outtta the parking lot.
cobras dont have DCCD, AWD,Turbo, HIDs, Decent looking rims, or any thought into their cars...all they industry does is try to make the car faster and faster with the same crappy@$s styling
-O4STi
Guest
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I'm sorry but I find your remarks just as unbecomming as I do when I get anti-Japanese-car remarks from Camero owners.
Low tech? Getting the Neon to run 12 secs? Yeah, that's no technology. Heck, even getting 390hp out of a 4.6 V8 is not "low tech".
I much prefer my 2002 RS driving-fun-wise than my Dad's 2003 Cobra, but to call it a POS is quite something else. No, they don't have turbos, they have super-chargers. And that means.... ?
I guess a Z06 then has a horrible engine since it is completely NA? What kind of reasoning is that?
Same crappy styling? Have you seen the new models? While it's purely opinion, if the new Mustang looks pretty close to the concept, it'll be a beauty.
And Corvettes do just fine on auto-x... I've even seen some Cameros do very well. Now if you're talking 4-5 year reliability, then that's something else, but just to call every car a "POS" is a little unjustified.
Low tech? Getting the Neon to run 12 secs? Yeah, that's no technology. Heck, even getting 390hp out of a 4.6 V8 is not "low tech".
I much prefer my 2002 RS driving-fun-wise than my Dad's 2003 Cobra, but to call it a POS is quite something else. No, they don't have turbos, they have super-chargers. And that means.... ?
I guess a Z06 then has a horrible engine since it is completely NA? What kind of reasoning is that?
Same crappy styling? Have you seen the new models? While it's purely opinion, if the new Mustang looks pretty close to the concept, it'll be a beauty.
And Corvettes do just fine on auto-x... I've even seen some Cameros do very well. Now if you're talking 4-5 year reliability, then that's something else, but just to call every car a "POS" is a little unjustified.
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Originally posted by RichiQY
obviously you have no passion about it
w/ 300 hp 300 torque,
Spec C front Geometry
DCCD
you d own all Z s and RX 8s
obviously you have no passion about it
w/ 300 hp 300 torque,
Spec C front Geometry
DCCD
you d own all Z s and RX 8s
Really, the USDM STi have the Spec C front Geometry
I didn't know about that, may I ask where you heard that from? I am not questioning you, I just want to know if it is in fact true. That would be so cool 
Guest
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Originally posted by Mach5WRX
Does that include any dealer mark-ups? EVO VIII's are going for almost $50,000
I can't wait to see the mark-ups on the STi.
Does that include any dealer mark-ups? EVO VIII's are going for almost $50,000
I can't wait to see the mark-ups on the STi.
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I will purchase the car for one simple reason. There will not be alot of them around. Every wher I look I see ford stuff and chevy stuff. These people are sheep being hearded. I like the odd looks I get when I pull up to a firebird or camero or mustang. I hit second gear before their tires stop smoking. ha ha ha Subaru is different and reliable. very safe. But at 300 hp and 330 fpt. It is worth 35k hands down no problem. Room for four and lugage. put that in a rx-8.
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Originally posted by O4STi
please don put any american cars on this website such as the cobra...it may be cheaper and faster but as soon as u pull outta the parking lot, the car just breaks....and subaru is "the beauty of all wheel drive"
ill be laughing when we all smoke ur car and we will tear u up, thats if ur car hasnt broke already
american cars have the most problems with it, thats why i dont get it...i know i can get 2 brand new mustangs instead of the STi, by what would i want american@$$ p0s?
i bet everyone here who is a japanese car lover and subaru fan knows what i am saying.
american cars may have power now, but where the hell are all of the technology in their cars??? its friggn 21st century and everyone goes for technology now and days..i dont know about the american industy because half their stuff breaks when u get outtta the parking lot.
cobras dont have DCCD, AWD,Turbo, HIDs, Decent looking rims, or any thought into their cars...all they industry does is try to make the car faster and faster with the same crappy@$s styling
-O4STi
please don put any american cars on this website such as the cobra...it may be cheaper and faster but as soon as u pull outta the parking lot, the car just breaks....and subaru is "the beauty of all wheel drive"
ill be laughing when we all smoke ur car and we will tear u up, thats if ur car hasnt broke already
american cars have the most problems with it, thats why i dont get it...i know i can get 2 brand new mustangs instead of the STi, by what would i want american@$$ p0s?
i bet everyone here who is a japanese car lover and subaru fan knows what i am saying.
american cars may have power now, but where the hell are all of the technology in their cars??? its friggn 21st century and everyone goes for technology now and days..i dont know about the american industy because half their stuff breaks when u get outtta the parking lot.
cobras dont have DCCD, AWD,Turbo, HIDs, Decent looking rims, or any thought into their cars...all they industry does is try to make the car faster and faster with the same crappy@$s styling
-O4STi
You need to grow up.
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Here's my thought: the CEO's of Fuji are reading these posts:
"Look, the Amercans say that 35K is too much... maybe we should lower the price?"
Or, conversely, "See, $35,000 is alright! They WILL pay it! Maybe we could RAISE the price to $40,000?"
So, hey, if you REALLY wouldn't pay that much, say so! These guys listen. And personally, I think 28 or 29 thou would be reasonable, but $38,500? (a price quoted to me). No way!
Subies are GREAT cars! I LOVE mine! But I wouldn't pay "BMW prices" for "Fuji quality"... kinda like the difference between McDonalds and a fine French restaurant: both are "food", but what a difference!!!
And Subie DOES have to compete, not only with BMW and Audi, but also with Mitsu, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. Check this out:
From Automobile magazine:
"The brakes are fabulous; the ABS is perfectly tuned for track use, with no discernible wheel lock... If you want to go obscenely fast cross-country with minimal effort and still have a car that is practical family transport, the Evolution is the real deal."
Mitsubishi Evo $28,975, 271 hp, 4WD, 3263 lbs
Subaru STi $38,500 (price quoted by dealer), 300 hp, AWD
So, I, a serious cash buyer and not a dreamer, would NOT pay ten thousand dollars, for 29 hp!!! Gee, I could probably GET another 30 hp out of the Mitsu, by changing the blackbox and installing cold air induction. So, my advice to Fuji is: lower the price of the Sti!!! Sell it for 29K, and the crowds will keep coming (just like the WRX).
Just the modest opinion of a guy who loves ALL cars, not just Subies, Japanese or European autos-- but ANY car that is fast and fun to drive!
=====================================
"Build it (affordably) and they will come!" to paraphrase the movie.
"Look, the Amercans say that 35K is too much... maybe we should lower the price?"
Or, conversely, "See, $35,000 is alright! They WILL pay it! Maybe we could RAISE the price to $40,000?"
So, hey, if you REALLY wouldn't pay that much, say so! These guys listen. And personally, I think 28 or 29 thou would be reasonable, but $38,500? (a price quoted to me). No way!
Subies are GREAT cars! I LOVE mine! But I wouldn't pay "BMW prices" for "Fuji quality"... kinda like the difference between McDonalds and a fine French restaurant: both are "food", but what a difference!!!
And Subie DOES have to compete, not only with BMW and Audi, but also with Mitsu, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. Check this out:
From Automobile magazine:
"The brakes are fabulous; the ABS is perfectly tuned for track use, with no discernible wheel lock... If you want to go obscenely fast cross-country with minimal effort and still have a car that is practical family transport, the Evolution is the real deal."
Mitsubishi Evo $28,975, 271 hp, 4WD, 3263 lbs
Subaru STi $38,500 (price quoted by dealer), 300 hp, AWD
So, I, a serious cash buyer and not a dreamer, would NOT pay ten thousand dollars, for 29 hp!!! Gee, I could probably GET another 30 hp out of the Mitsu, by changing the blackbox and installing cold air induction. So, my advice to Fuji is: lower the price of the Sti!!! Sell it for 29K, and the crowds will keep coming (just like the WRX).
Just the modest opinion of a guy who loves ALL cars, not just Subies, Japanese or European autos-- but ANY car that is fast and fun to drive!
=====================================
"Build it (affordably) and they will come!" to paraphrase the movie.
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Originally posted by jwzekas
Here's my thought: the CEO's of Fuji are reading these posts:
"Look, the Amercans say that 35K is too much... maybe we should lower the price?"
Or, conversely, "See, $35,000 is alright! They WILL pay it! Maybe we could RAISE the price to $40,000?"
I don't think so, I wish it is that simple.
So, hey, if you REALLY wouldn't pay that much, say so! These guys listen. And personally, I think 28 or 29 thou would be reasonable, but $38,500? (a price quoted to me). No way!
Subies are GREAT cars! I LOVE mine! But I wouldn't pay "BMW prices" for "Fuji quality"... kinda like the difference between McDonalds and a fine French restaurant: both are "food", but what a difference!!!
May I ask how old you are? You still haven't got it by now? $35K is BMW prices? Which BMW are you referring to? $35K would barely get you a strip down 325i. The hardware on the WRX STi is equal to a M3. An M3 would run you at least mid $50K. Are you telling me you are happier driving a 170 HP RWD 325i that are slower then most Camry and Accord? Oh right, you must be one of those guys that just want the badge with leather and wood trim
And Subie DOES have to compete, not only with BMW and Audi, but also with Mitsu, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. Check this out:
From Automobile magazine:
"The brakes are fabulous; the ABS is perfectly tuned for track use, with no discernible wheel lock... If you want to go obscenely fast cross-country with minimal effort and still have a car that is practical family transport, the Evolution is the real deal."
Mitsubishi Evo $28,975, 271 hp, 4WD, 3263 lbs
Subaru STi $38,500 (price quoted by dealer), 300 hp, AWD
Yes Subie does have to compete, but the ONLY car WRX STi compete with is the EVO. Are you suggesting Subaru throw in the DCCD, 0.5L engine displacement, 29HP, front LSD, 1 extra forward gear for no extra cost. I wish it is true too, but when is the last time ANYONE give you anything for free?
So, I, a serious cash buyer and not a dreamer, would NOT pay ten thousand dollars, for 29 hp!!! Gee, I could probably GET another 30 hp out of the Mitsu, by changing the blackbox and installing cold air induction. So, my advice to Fuji is: lower the price of the Sti!!! Sell it for 29K, and the crowds will keep coming (just like the WRX).
Don't forget, 29 HP is only peak power, I am sure the STi have a lot more low end power due to the extra 0.5L of engine. And you just forgot all those things the STi have where the EVO doesn't. The STi is completely different then the regular WRX. Just like comparing the M3 with the 325i? Did you ever hear anyone complain about the M3 being too expensive and tell BMW to lower the price because the 325i is a lot cheaper? If you want to save money, you can always buy a 87 Buick grand National for $3K, spend $7K on modification and you can have yourself a 500 HP car that goes 11 in the 1/4, what's your point? Taking the bus is the cheapest way.
Just the modest opinion of a guy who loves ALL cars, not just Subies, Japanese or European autos-- but ANY car that is fast and fun to drive!
If you do love all fast car, the WRX STi (or any Japanese/Euro sports car for that matter) is definitely not what you are looking for. I sincerely suggest you look at the 03 Mustang Cobra for $35K, Neon SRT-4 for $19K, a C5 Vette (they are very affordable since not many people want one, every dealer offer huge discount on them), I know a guy that just bought a brand new ZO6 for $40K, due to 7K off MSRP, 0% financing too. NOTHING can beat American muscle car when it comes to bang for the buck, simply because we are in the USA.
Here's my thought: the CEO's of Fuji are reading these posts:
"Look, the Amercans say that 35K is too much... maybe we should lower the price?"
Or, conversely, "See, $35,000 is alright! They WILL pay it! Maybe we could RAISE the price to $40,000?"
I don't think so, I wish it is that simple.
So, hey, if you REALLY wouldn't pay that much, say so! These guys listen. And personally, I think 28 or 29 thou would be reasonable, but $38,500? (a price quoted to me). No way!
Subies are GREAT cars! I LOVE mine! But I wouldn't pay "BMW prices" for "Fuji quality"... kinda like the difference between McDonalds and a fine French restaurant: both are "food", but what a difference!!!
May I ask how old you are? You still haven't got it by now? $35K is BMW prices? Which BMW are you referring to? $35K would barely get you a strip down 325i. The hardware on the WRX STi is equal to a M3. An M3 would run you at least mid $50K. Are you telling me you are happier driving a 170 HP RWD 325i that are slower then most Camry and Accord? Oh right, you must be one of those guys that just want the badge with leather and wood trim
And Subie DOES have to compete, not only with BMW and Audi, but also with Mitsu, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. Check this out:
From Automobile magazine:
"The brakes are fabulous; the ABS is perfectly tuned for track use, with no discernible wheel lock... If you want to go obscenely fast cross-country with minimal effort and still have a car that is practical family transport, the Evolution is the real deal."
Mitsubishi Evo $28,975, 271 hp, 4WD, 3263 lbs
Subaru STi $38,500 (price quoted by dealer), 300 hp, AWD
Yes Subie does have to compete, but the ONLY car WRX STi compete with is the EVO. Are you suggesting Subaru throw in the DCCD, 0.5L engine displacement, 29HP, front LSD, 1 extra forward gear for no extra cost. I wish it is true too, but when is the last time ANYONE give you anything for free?
So, I, a serious cash buyer and not a dreamer, would NOT pay ten thousand dollars, for 29 hp!!! Gee, I could probably GET another 30 hp out of the Mitsu, by changing the blackbox and installing cold air induction. So, my advice to Fuji is: lower the price of the Sti!!! Sell it for 29K, and the crowds will keep coming (just like the WRX).
Don't forget, 29 HP is only peak power, I am sure the STi have a lot more low end power due to the extra 0.5L of engine. And you just forgot all those things the STi have where the EVO doesn't. The STi is completely different then the regular WRX. Just like comparing the M3 with the 325i? Did you ever hear anyone complain about the M3 being too expensive and tell BMW to lower the price because the 325i is a lot cheaper? If you want to save money, you can always buy a 87 Buick grand National for $3K, spend $7K on modification and you can have yourself a 500 HP car that goes 11 in the 1/4, what's your point? Taking the bus is the cheapest way.
Just the modest opinion of a guy who loves ALL cars, not just Subies, Japanese or European autos-- but ANY car that is fast and fun to drive!
If you do love all fast car, the WRX STi (or any Japanese/Euro sports car for that matter) is definitely not what you are looking for. I sincerely suggest you look at the 03 Mustang Cobra for $35K, Neon SRT-4 for $19K, a C5 Vette (they are very affordable since not many people want one, every dealer offer huge discount on them), I know a guy that just bought a brand new ZO6 for $40K, due to 7K off MSRP, 0% financing too. NOTHING can beat American muscle car when it comes to bang for the buck, simply because we are in the USA.
Last edited by JDM nut; Apr 1, 2003 at 11:06 PM.