S-squared: Lynch mob or class action lawsuit??
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Car Info: 05 WRX Wagon
options
Sytran666, I think you misunderstood my point-
I already bought a Vishnu reflash w/ license which was $500 or $600.
Then, I took the car to Joe/Nate for a dyno/re-tune which was $100
(which btw brought hp from 193 --> 206)
Now, due to misrepresentation of skills by the tuner or other "personal issues" he had, it turns out that the dyno/re-tune may have placed my motor at risk. Although I have pretty common engine mods w/ no radical tuning required, it is still not clear to me just how much and how badly Nate could have screwed up MANY people's cars- possibly even the "bread and butter" ones?.
If I have to send my ECU for re-flash, I have to pay for that (@ whatever a new reflash costs ($150?) after having already bought the license) + lose the $100 paid for the dyno run (since that tune (Nate's) would be overwritten).
If I switch to new system (e.g., COBBaccessport) I have to pay for that (??) AND I lose/waste the $600-700 already paid for the Vishnu map + dyno.
a) Do nothing....???
b) Reflash alone...$150 (?) + some prob loss of performance w/o fine tune on dyno (which can't be done w/ car in Hawaii) + loss of $100 paid for dyno
c) Accesport... cost (??) + loss of $600-700 already invested and STILL prob some loss of performance w/o fine tune on dyno (which still can't be done w/ car in Hawaii)
d) ship car to mainland for re-tune on dyno....$2000+??
sucks....
I already bought a Vishnu reflash w/ license which was $500 or $600.
Then, I took the car to Joe/Nate for a dyno/re-tune which was $100
(which btw brought hp from 193 --> 206)
Now, due to misrepresentation of skills by the tuner or other "personal issues" he had, it turns out that the dyno/re-tune may have placed my motor at risk. Although I have pretty common engine mods w/ no radical tuning required, it is still not clear to me just how much and how badly Nate could have screwed up MANY people's cars- possibly even the "bread and butter" ones?.
If I have to send my ECU for re-flash, I have to pay for that (@ whatever a new reflash costs ($150?) after having already bought the license) + lose the $100 paid for the dyno run (since that tune (Nate's) would be overwritten).
If I switch to new system (e.g., COBBaccessport) I have to pay for that (??) AND I lose/waste the $600-700 already paid for the Vishnu map + dyno.
a) Do nothing....???
b) Reflash alone...$150 (?) + some prob loss of performance w/o fine tune on dyno (which can't be done w/ car in Hawaii) + loss of $100 paid for dyno
c) Accesport... cost (??) + loss of $600-700 already invested and STILL prob some loss of performance w/o fine tune on dyno (which still can't be done w/ car in Hawaii)
d) ship car to mainland for re-tune on dyno....$2000+??
sucks....
Thread Starter
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From: somewhere between "here" and "there"
Car Info: 05 WRX Wagon
EQ tuning
thanks for that other option. It still means more $$ out of pocket, more hassle and more BS from my wife that is already pissed off that I "f*cked up the car"
Not to mention time/gas spent on the trips from Redding to SAC (2+ hrs each way) when I first had the work done!
"remote tuning"? haven't heard about that. Do I just hold the phone next to the exhaust pipe? I'll have to contact you via PM or email and get more info.
thanks
norm
Not to mention time/gas spent on the trips from Redding to SAC (2+ hrs each way) when I first had the work done!
"remote tuning"? haven't heard about that. Do I just hold the phone next to the exhaust pipe? I'll have to contact you via PM or email and get more info.
thanks
norm
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Norm,
I realize that none of these options may sound too great to you and sadly they all require more money to be spent. Its natural to be frustrated with a situation like this but considering that Nate and S^2 is out of business, there really is no possibility to resolve your issues any other way.
That being said, your tune may not necessarily be dangerous. If you have a laptop, I suggest that you download a program called EcuExplorer. This is a free open source logging program that will allow you to log most of the parameters of the ECU. If you can do this, let me know and I'd be happy to take a look at the logs and tell you if anything looks to be off.
As far as remote tuning, the procedure goes as follows: I send you a base map appropriate for your mods, you do a couple pulls (3rd gear from 2k rpm to redline) and log them using EcuExplorer, then you send me the logs, I make appropriate changes and send you a new map. Then we rinse and repeat until clean
Please feel free to send me an e-mail if you have any other questions or if I can help in any way.
Thanks
I realize that none of these options may sound too great to you and sadly they all require more money to be spent. Its natural to be frustrated with a situation like this but considering that Nate and S^2 is out of business, there really is no possibility to resolve your issues any other way.
That being said, your tune may not necessarily be dangerous. If you have a laptop, I suggest that you download a program called EcuExplorer. This is a free open source logging program that will allow you to log most of the parameters of the ECU. If you can do this, let me know and I'd be happy to take a look at the logs and tell you if anything looks to be off.
As far as remote tuning, the procedure goes as follows: I send you a base map appropriate for your mods, you do a couple pulls (3rd gear from 2k rpm to redline) and log them using EcuExplorer, then you send me the logs, I make appropriate changes and send you a new map. Then we rinse and repeat until clean
Please feel free to send me an e-mail if you have any other questions or if I can help in any way.
Thanks
Thread Starter
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thank you SO much for that advice. I feel better already at least knowing there are some alternatives within reach (being in Kona on Island of Hawaii- which is one of the "neighbor islands" to boot- i.e., only ~ 110,000 people on whole island, not the population center of Honolulu on island of Oahu which has >1 million people) makes me feel a little better.
I will look into that program (and the adapter cable certainly needed). Of course, the hard drive on my laptop self-destructed 2 days ago, so now I have to send THAT back to mainland for repair, too... there's a saying here (sometimes said w/ irony and sarcasm) "So lucky we live Hawaii"
aloha,
norm
I will look into that program (and the adapter cable certainly needed). Of course, the hard drive on my laptop self-destructed 2 days ago, so now I have to send THAT back to mainland for repair, too... there's a saying here (sometimes said w/ irony and sarcasm) "So lucky we live Hawaii"
aloha,
norm
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Originally Posted by DrNorm
thanks for that other option. It still means more $$ out of pocket, more hassle and more BS from my wife that is already pissed off that I "f*cked up the car"
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Originally Posted by sonicsuby
Dude, tell your wife to chill.
I'm picturing you telling Mrs sonicsuby to chill & the resulting mayhem she'd administer to you.
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
:rotfl:
I'm picturing you telling Mrs sonicsuby to chill & the resulting mayhem she'd administer to you.
I'm picturing you telling Mrs sonicsuby to chill & the resulting mayhem she'd administer to you.
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From: Sacramento
Car Info: 2005 Legacy GT
Originally Posted by sonicsuby
Well, I wouldnt' be like "*****, BE COOL!!!", I'd be like "Sometimes **** happens and in this case I couldn't avoid it..", etc,etc.
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Originally Posted by sonicsuby
Well, I wouldnt' be like "*****, BE COOL!!!", I'd be like "Sometimes **** happens and in this case I couldn't avoid it..", etc,etc.
now you know I would not get away with that myself.. it would be easy to tell if I did.. I would just disapear
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Yes- smart women.
SonicSuby, would you tell her for me...I've seen how good a pistol shot she is.
In fact, you suggest that like you've never been married?!?
I may be an idiot, but I'm no fool. "Yes dear, I f*cked up again," is the ONLY right answer. Picking your battles is the key to survival: war, business, marriage, politics- all the same.
She's not interested in the "how" or "why". I think the ONE thing I've learned after all these years is that women are pretty much interested only in "outcome" not "process".
I'll post the address to send flowers to for my funeral.
SonicSuby, would you tell her for me...I've seen how good a pistol shot she is.
In fact, you suggest that like you've never been married?!?
I may be an idiot, but I'm no fool. "Yes dear, I f*cked up again," is the ONLY right answer. Picking your battles is the key to survival: war, business, marriage, politics- all the same.
She's not interested in the "how" or "why". I think the ONE thing I've learned after all these years is that women are pretty much interested only in "outcome" not "process".
I'll post the address to send flowers to for my funeral.
Last edited by DrNorm; Mar 15, 2006 at 04:35 PM.
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Originally Posted by sybir
Thanks for your useful addition. DrNorm is understandably frustrated, and is venting and expressing his situation. There's no drama in that.
I was putting that in there before the massive thread that usually follows in which someone decides to leave the site because they got their feelings hurt. This person would not be DrNorm, but someone who will inevitably attack someone of good standing on the site, and then will invite the wrath of all the other members including DrNorm.
That person might be me
<--- Steps out the door quietly
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Wrath And Vengeance
no wrath from me!!! I'm trying to find the humor...
I am VERY thankful to all the helpful, supportive members on this site. I am certainly glad that someone was "willing" to post the original info about their problems with aforementioned individuals- I might have ended up w/ a dead car (or worse) w/o the warning. Hopefully others will also take note.
Interestingly, I have rec'd a number of PMs from members w/ similar problems/experiences that I originally described at the beginning of this thread. I wish I had know THAT earlier b/c it would have saved a lot of time/grief/$$. I hope that THIS thread prevents others from tripping down the same path.
I am just going to do the brake/brakeline/suspension stuff myself. (and hopefully there will be no more major problems discovered). As far as the ECU, there have been some good suggestions and I have yet to make a decision: as little as $80 for a OBD cable and download of free diagnostic software to as much as buying a COBB product, Given that I have quite standard mods and no future access to a dyno, the COBB route might just be the way to go. Ideally, I could trade my flashed ECU w/ license to someone for a COBB ECU w/license (unlikely) or sell my ECU/license with return of an an OEM ECU that I then give the COBB treatment to. That would prob. be safest, easiest (though certainly require additional cash outlay- BUT would then have the flexibility of the accessport).
Should I charge Joe for "my time" to "re-do" the work he didn't do correctly? (btw- all the invoices are from "Joe's A&S" and "mechanic" is listed as "Joe" 80% of time. Nate was NEVER listed as mechanic, even once- not even as the dyno-tech. ONLY mention of S-Squared was on the letterhead for the dyno printout.
aloha,
norm
thanks again, all.
I am VERY thankful to all the helpful, supportive members on this site. I am certainly glad that someone was "willing" to post the original info about their problems with aforementioned individuals- I might have ended up w/ a dead car (or worse) w/o the warning. Hopefully others will also take note.
Interestingly, I have rec'd a number of PMs from members w/ similar problems/experiences that I originally described at the beginning of this thread. I wish I had know THAT earlier b/c it would have saved a lot of time/grief/$$. I hope that THIS thread prevents others from tripping down the same path.
I am just going to do the brake/brakeline/suspension stuff myself. (and hopefully there will be no more major problems discovered). As far as the ECU, there have been some good suggestions and I have yet to make a decision: as little as $80 for a OBD cable and download of free diagnostic software to as much as buying a COBB product, Given that I have quite standard mods and no future access to a dyno, the COBB route might just be the way to go. Ideally, I could trade my flashed ECU w/ license to someone for a COBB ECU w/license (unlikely) or sell my ECU/license with return of an an OEM ECU that I then give the COBB treatment to. That would prob. be safest, easiest (though certainly require additional cash outlay- BUT would then have the flexibility of the accessport).
Should I charge Joe for "my time" to "re-do" the work he didn't do correctly? (btw- all the invoices are from "Joe's A&S" and "mechanic" is listed as "Joe" 80% of time. Nate was NEVER listed as mechanic, even once- not even as the dyno-tech. ONLY mention of S-Squared was on the letterhead for the dyno printout.
aloha,
norm
thanks again, all.
Originally Posted by DrNorm
no wrath from me!!! I'm trying to find the humor...
I am VERY thankful to all the helpful, supportive members on this site. I am certainly glad that someone was "willing" to post the original info about their problems with aforementioned individuals- I might have ended up w/ a dead car (or worse) w/o the warning. Hopefully others will also take note.
Interestingly, I have rec'd a number of PMs from members w/ similar problems/experiences that I originally described at the beginning of this thread. I wish I had know THAT earlier b/c it would have saved a lot of time/grief/$$. I hope that THIS thread prevents others from tripping down the same path.
I am just going to do the brake/brakeline/suspension stuff myself. (and hopefully there will be no more major problems discovered). As far as the ECU, there have been some good suggestions and I have yet to make a decision: as little as $80 for a OBD cable and download of free diagnostic software to as much as buying a COBB product, Given that I have quite standard mods and no future access to a dyno, the COBB route might just be the way to go. Ideally, I could trade my flashed ECU w/ license to someone for a COBB ECU w/license (unlikely) or sell my ECU/license with return of an an OEM ECU that I then give the COBB treatment to. That would prob. be safest, easiest (though certainly require additional cash outlay- BUT would then have the flexibility of the accessport).
Should I charge Joe for "my time" to "re-do" the work he didn't do correctly? (btw- all the invoices are from "Joe's A&S" and "mechanic" is listed as "Joe" 80% of time. Nate was NEVER listed as mechanic, even once- not even as the dyno-tech. ONLY mention of S-Squared was on the letterhead for the dyno printout.
aloha,
norm
thanks again, all.
I am VERY thankful to all the helpful, supportive members on this site. I am certainly glad that someone was "willing" to post the original info about their problems with aforementioned individuals- I might have ended up w/ a dead car (or worse) w/o the warning. Hopefully others will also take note.
Interestingly, I have rec'd a number of PMs from members w/ similar problems/experiences that I originally described at the beginning of this thread. I wish I had know THAT earlier b/c it would have saved a lot of time/grief/$$. I hope that THIS thread prevents others from tripping down the same path.
I am just going to do the brake/brakeline/suspension stuff myself. (and hopefully there will be no more major problems discovered). As far as the ECU, there have been some good suggestions and I have yet to make a decision: as little as $80 for a OBD cable and download of free diagnostic software to as much as buying a COBB product, Given that I have quite standard mods and no future access to a dyno, the COBB route might just be the way to go. Ideally, I could trade my flashed ECU w/ license to someone for a COBB ECU w/license (unlikely) or sell my ECU/license with return of an an OEM ECU that I then give the COBB treatment to. That would prob. be safest, easiest (though certainly require additional cash outlay- BUT would then have the flexibility of the accessport).
Should I charge Joe for "my time" to "re-do" the work he didn't do correctly? (btw- all the invoices are from "Joe's A&S" and "mechanic" is listed as "Joe" 80% of time. Nate was NEVER listed as mechanic, even once- not even as the dyno-tech. ONLY mention of S-Squared was on the letterhead for the dyno printout.
aloha,
norm
thanks again, all.