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Old 09-13-2007, 11:47 AM
  #211  
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I want to see the evidence. Mclaren had two of the best drivers in F1 on thier team. Both of which lead in points. I've watched every race this year, it obvious where the points are coming from. Talent has nothing to do with any inside information. What ever, there's always next year, at least my driver is still on top.
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Old 09-13-2007, 02:57 PM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by maddhatteroo7
3. If McLaren are found guilty of cheating why should they just be removed from the Constructors' Championship? Surely the drivers in the cars have benefited from increased speed thanks to this information gained and their positions within the respective tables are also false?

F'in seriously....The drivers don't care about the constructor's title...they want THEIR title. They should BE punished as well!!!!

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...723339,00.html
I guess McLaren wasn't found guilty of "cheating". They were found guilty of posession and charged accordingly. At least that's my interpretation of what happened today.
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Old 09-13-2007, 04:48 PM
  #213  
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So, I was looking at f1.com, and they have already updated the constructors standings...


Pos Team Points
1 Ferrari 143
2 BMW 86
3 Renault 38
4 Williams-Toyota 25
5 Red Bull-Renault 16
6 Toyota 12
7 Super Aguri-Honda 4
8 Honda 2
9 STR-Ferrari 0
9= McLaren-Mercedes 0
9= Spyker-Ferrari 0


The disqualified McLaren is still ahead of Spyker in the overall standings
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by nKoan
So, I was looking at f1.com, and they have already updated the constructors standings...


Pos Team Points
1 Ferrari 143
2 BMW 86
3 Renault 38
4 Williams-Toyota 25
5 Red Bull-Renault 16
6 Toyota 12
7 Super Aguri-Honda 4
8 Honda 2
9 STR-Ferrari 0
9= McLaren-Mercedes 0
9= Spyker-Ferrari 0


The disqualified McLaren is still ahead of Spyker in the overall standings
hahaha I was about to say the same...at least they're ahead of Spyker
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:24 PM
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i still find it funny that honda only has two points.
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Old 09-14-2007, 07:13 AM
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FIA release reasons for McLaren expulsion
Friday 14th September 2007


http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...728560,00.html
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:41 AM
  #217  
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Coughlan did not act alone says FIA

WMSC: De la Rosa, Alonso shared data obtained from Stepney

A number of McLaren employees - including Pedro de la Rosa and Fernando Alonso - knew about the team’s unauthorised possession of confidential Ferrari information, and some intended to use that information in the team’s own testing.

That was among the findings of the FIA’s World Motor Sport Council, which published its full judgement on Friday afternoon following its decision to strip McLaren of their 2007 constructors' points and fine the team $100 million.

The findings contradict previous claims from McLaren that the Ferrari data had not spread beyond suspended chief designer Mike Coughlan, who allegedly received it from former Ferrari engineer Nigel Stepney.

In its judgement, the Council cites evidence of ongoing communications between Coughlan and Stepney, as well as between Coughlan and McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa, who the FIA claim “requested and received secret Ferrari information from a source which he knew to be illegitimate” and shared that information with world champion Fernando Alonso.

Emails between Coughlan, de la Rosa and Alonso formed part of the new evidence that prompted Thursday’s second hearing into the affair. July’s original hearing had found McLaren in breach of the International Sporting Code, but had not sanctioned the team due to lack of evidence.

The emails covered topics such as the weight distribution and braking system of Ferrari’s car, a flexible rear wing design and a gas used by the Italian team to inflate its tyres. They also suggested that Stepney had fed Coughlan real-time information on Ferrari’s pit stop strategy in this year’s Australian Grand Prix.

According to the Council, “The e-mails show unequivocally that both Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa received confidential Ferrari information via Coughlan; that both drivers knew that this information was confidential Ferrari information and that both knew that the information was being received by Coughlan from Stepney.”. In submitting their evidence, de la Rosa and Alonso were granted immunity from any personal sanctions.

The other new evidence related to communications between Coughlan and Stepney, which, according to reports from the Italian police, was of a far greater level than the Council had previously thought, leading it to conclude that Coughlan “was in receipt of a flow of confidential Ferrari information from Stepney.”

According to the Council, the new evidence makes clear that:

- Coughlan had more information than previously appreciated and was receiving information in a systematic manner over a period of months;
- the information has been disseminated, at least to some degree (e.g. to Mr. de la Rosa and Mr. Alonso), within the McLaren team;
- the information being disseminated within the McLaren team included not only highly sensitive technical information but also secret information regarding Ferrari’s sporting strategy;
- Mr de la Rosa, in the performance of his functions at McLaren, requested and received secret Ferrari information from a source which he knew to be illegitimate and expressly stated that the purpose of his request was to run tests in the simulator;
- the secret information in question was shared with Mr. Alonso;
- there was a clear intention on the part of a number of McLaren personnel to use some of the Ferrari confidential information in its own testing. If this was not in fact carried into effect it was only because there were technical reasons not to do so;
- Coughlan’s role within McLaren (as now understood by the WMSC) put him in a position in which his knowledge of the secret Ferrari information would have influenced him in the performance of his duties.

The Council concluded that “some degree of sporting advantage was obtained, though it may forever be impossible to quantify that advantage in concrete terms.”
Wow... I thought so highly of De La Rosa too

I think the punishment is warranted, but damn, who knows how much was used in the development of the McLaren car.

Damn immunity... I had a feeling alonso was a part of this, he knows info and has been using is for sure, that's evident, but he's free to keep racing, and that just ****ing sucks.

-Gagan
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:53 AM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by joltdudeuc
Wow... I thought so highly of De La Rosa too

I think the punishment is warranted, but damn, who knows how much was used in the development of the McLaren car.

Damn immunity... I had a feeling alonso was a part of this, he knows info and has been using is for sure, that's evident, but he's free to keep racing, and that just ****ing sucks.

-Gagan
Oddly enough last season I thought the same of De La Rosa. It's nice to see a test driver being able to show his stuff and perform well too for a potential racing seat and not just testing. Now that I've read the FIA's reasoning in their punishment I completely agree with them. While I greatly respect former racers such as Jacky Stewart and Stirling Moss, those two guys are greatly in the wrong claiming McLaren shouldn't recieve such punishment. Those two guys are clearly getting old and senile lol
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:17 AM
  #219  
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It's not so much that they had information, but that they lied to the Council back in July by saying they didn't know anything.

It's now proven they did know things, and they only told once the council granted immunity.

Honestly, I think a better punishment is removing De La Rosa and Alonso from FIA competition, leaving only hamilton and any C points he gained.

I don't think they used any Ferrari info in the design of their 07 car, but I know they used it to help their testing and racing setups. That doesn't cover hamilton, so he should stay.

-Gagan
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Old 09-14-2007, 07:17 PM
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Thumbs down

Wow, now THAT is dirty play, Alonso and Dela Rosa. My thoughts were right again about Alonso.
Now after this new info, I think Alonso should be docked points.
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:33 PM
  #221  
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I would have taken his but out of the car and put Scott Speed in there
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Old 09-15-2007, 05:04 PM
  #222  
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Alonso needs to be removed from the championship, he knowingly used stolen information and only came forward when he was offered immunity.

He tried to blackmail Ron Dennis into making him #1 driver and would have knowingly used the setup and weight distribution information that was stolen from Ferrari to win the championship.

Alonso and De La Rosa are a couple of cheating spaniards who need to be fired from F1...they're both vermin.

I hope Lewis kicks his ***.

I'm officially an Alonso hater.
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Old 09-16-2007, 12:59 AM
  #223  
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Originally Posted by glenspen
Alonso needs to be removed from the championship, he knowingly used stolen information and only came forward when he was offered immunity.

He tried to blackmail Ron Dennis into making him #1 driver and would have knowingly used the setup and weight distribution information that was stolen from Ferrari to win the championship.

Alonso and De La Rosa are a couple of cheating spaniards who need to be fired from F1...they're both vermin.

I hope Lewis kicks his ***.

I'm officially an Alonso hater.
See!

Now you see, how he truly is...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai.../smfron116.xml

-Gagan
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Old 09-16-2007, 08:57 PM
  #224  
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Very sad. To be so threatened to go so far. I can't see how the team can support the dirtbag. I hope he is man enough to just walk away from the team. Good thing Ron Dennis had the brains to reveal the action. I wonder if he already knew about the data before moving to McLaren? He signed on really early.
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:33 PM
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Comments on Alonso's move against Lewis on Lap one?


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle2468987.ece

Lewis Hamilton has accused Fernando Alonso, his McLaren Mercedes team-mate and bitter World Championship rival, of “swiping” across him as the Briton tried to get ahead of the Spaniard at the first corner of yesterday’s Belgian Grand Prix.

In the latest evidence of the breakdown in relations between the drivers, Hamilton, who finished fourth behind Alonso and a Ferrari one-two for Kimi Raikkonen and Felipe Massa, said that he would have expected more from the defending world champion.

“I don’t know whether I was ahead, but there was enough room for us all to get round fair and square,” Hamilton, whose lead in the World Championship is down to two points with three races left, said. “For someone that’s always complaining about people doing unfair manoeuvres and wanting everyone to be fair, and someone I look up to, he has gone and swiped me and pushed me as wide as he could. I was just really lucky there was a run-off area.”

Alonso, whose long-term future at McLaren is in doubt over his role in the McLaren-Ferrari spying scandal and his alleged attempt to threaten Ron Dennis, the team principal with informing the FIA, the sport’s governing body, that he had Ferrari secrets on his computer unless he was made his team’s No 1 driver, was happy with his driving. His view was shared by Dennis, who said that this had been a normal racing incident that, had it involved cars from different teams, would have gone unnoticed.
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Among those in the paddock in Spa was Max Mosley, the president of the FIA, who said that Hamilton and Alonso should have been thrown out of the drivers’ championship as part of the team’s punishment for their involvement in the spy scandal. Mosley also indicated that if a McLaren driver wins the title, there would “always be a question mark over it”.

The increasingly outspoken Hamilton dismissed his comments. “I don’t have anything to say to or about Max Mosley,” he said. “We’ve all worked hard this year and the way I feel is that the team has done absolutely nothing wrong and neither have I. I don’t see why people should say that if I win, it’s a tainted championship.”

Hamilton also implied that Alonso did not care about McLaren as a team as much as he did. “I feel more attached to the team and I care a bit more, I think,” he said. His comments came amid unsubstantiated claims that Alonso has been paying his mechanics an extra £700 a race to motivate them in his battle with Hamilton.

Lurking is another spying controversy, this time involving technical information allegedly taken by a McLaren design engineer to Renault, which Mosley is awaiting a report on.

Personally, it was a ****ed up move. He did it on purpose but he denies it during the press conference.

Alonso is... I don't have words to describe him... He's the pits of F1 is what he is.
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