Most HP for the $?
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Originally posted by JakeO
not trying to start a flame war or anything. i know all about the regrinding process. its a very rare case when they do get bubbles in there weld. (dont quote me on this) but thats only when there doing some very high lift and duration on there regrinded cams. in my case i only got 15 more degrees lift and .15mm more duration and all they did was grind the back of the lobe off. if that makes since.
not trying to start a flame war or anything. i know all about the regrinding process. its a very rare case when they do get bubbles in there weld. (dont quote me on this) but thats only when there doing some very high lift and duration on there regrinded cams. in my case i only got 15 more degrees lift and .15mm more duration and all they did was grind the back of the lobe off. if that makes since.
-DE
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Thanks Doom. So if this shop can just regrind my cams (or the new ones if I decide to get them), I shouldnt have any problems with weakness/air bubbles, right? I would think as long as they are no rewelding anything there woud be no need to worry about that. I don't think I would need that extreme/aggressive of a cam that would require rewelding, anyhow. Any ideas as to what would be ideal for a 1.8L? I think I just need a really good mid-range, that pulls evenly all the way through the gears without any hesitation/"flat spots". Seems like, for driveability sake, one wouldn't want a cam meant for only high revs driving since you need the rest of the power band to get you to those high revs. For a street car, low and mid-range power is the best balance, especially an every day driver, IMO. Thanks!
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Can you explain how you could get more lift without adding material to the lobe?
Thanks Doom. So if this shop can just regrind my cams (or the new ones if I decide to get them), I shouldnt have any problems with weakness/air bubbles, right? I would think as long as they are no rewelding anything there woud be no need to worry about that. I don't think I would need that extreme/aggressive of a cam that would require rewelding, anyhow. Any ideas as to what would be ideal for a 1.8L? I think I just need a really good mid-range, that pulls evenly all the way through the gears without any hesitation/"flat spots". Seems like, for driveability sake, one wouldn't want a cam meant for only high revs driving since you need the rest of the power band to get you to those high revs. For a street car, low and mid-range power is the best balance, especially an every day driver, IMO. Thanks!
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7
From: Vancouver, BC
Car Info: 98 Legacy
Can you explain how you could get more lift without adding material to the lobe?
Perhaps I am confused??? Anyone?
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making a "bigger" cam with out physically making it bigger involves grinding the base circle smaller and leaving the lobe (basically) alone. THe base circle is the radius of the cam lob when the vlave is shut, by making it smaller, the high point on the cam lobe is now has a larger radius, and hence lifts the valve farther off of the seat giving you more lift.
Changing the base circle also changes cam timing with out messing with the lob, so typically there is a little bit of work done on the lobe to "make things right" again, because lift after a point doesn't help you anymore, its the duration at that lift that matters, so you want a more round lob instead of the egg tip that is on it to begin with.
If Crower charges by the valve lobe, SOHC head cams will be cheaper to do. THey have less lobes than the DOHC.
THe SOHC heads exhaust lifters both opperate 2 exhaust valves with one lobe, so there are six lobes per cam, for a total of 12 lobes. THe DOHC head's cam opperates the valves directly, so there are 4 lobes per cam x two cams = 16 lobes.
Changing the base circle also changes cam timing with out messing with the lob, so typically there is a little bit of work done on the lobe to "make things right" again, because lift after a point doesn't help you anymore, its the duration at that lift that matters, so you want a more round lob instead of the egg tip that is on it to begin with.
If Crower charges by the valve lobe, SOHC head cams will be cheaper to do. THey have less lobes than the DOHC.
THe SOHC heads exhaust lifters both opperate 2 exhaust valves with one lobe, so there are six lobes per cam, for a total of 12 lobes. THe DOHC head's cam opperates the valves directly, so there are 4 lobes per cam x two cams = 16 lobes.
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Wow, a lot of good info in here. I've always wanted to do cams in my RS, but the Cobb stuff is just so expensive. But having Crane/Crower do it for that price is very reasonable! And I trust them, they aren't some little fly-by-night shop (not that Cobb is, either), been around for a looooong time. Might have to look into this.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 37
From: Jersey Shore
Car Info: MY2000 RS cpe Sedona Red
Another option I am surprised that no one has mentioned, is that if serious about bang for buck, NOS has 50-100 HP shot systems that by far blow away anthing else you can come up with short of forced induction. The new NOS systems are not the old open the valve and wait for the bottle to empty before a curve comes up or crank snapping systems. But rather they have new systems that are controlled shots that provide enough laughing gas to boost your *REAL* HP to the stated system levels for a few seconds which are great for drag runs and quick boosts of power (as opposed to regular bolt-ons that 1. are not linearily compounded when combined with other add-ons (stated 5 hp gain for intake, and stated 2 hp for pulley does not, and generally will not equate to 7 hp total, most people don't realize that everything affects everything else in relation); 2. total cost to just reach a probable level of 20-35 hp can be incredibly expensive as opposed to using the NOS system. Same reason why it's more cost effective to go forced induction in the long run; and 3. Can make the car uncomfortable for anything but the track.). Now the cons to this are still the stigma of reliability, again these systems are made to be used with the stock setup of most N/A cars, however as with anything performance oriented, there is lost of room for user abuse. If you have a 50HP 8 shot system, you are not suppose to keep juicing the engine with multiple continous shots on a single run with the NOx. Also the cost, though the best bang for the buck, it still requires a hefty buck. So in short, if you really want to get the biggest, best bang for the buck you may want to look at the NOS systems before caming out, or exhaust modding the car and affecting it's street-ablity, and possible Emission issues. If all you are concerned about is power for the cheap. If sound and looks are more important than pure power then, the lesser mods are better suited for limited gains. Just my 2 cents.
- WRX_REED
- WRX_REED
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 104
From: SEPA
Car Info: '98 Neon R/T
I'm not too keen on reground cams, personally. I was even nervous about my cast Crower cams. AFAIK, only Crane uses billet to make their cams. They don't advertise on their site, but they may make you something custom for the same cost (or less) as Cobb.
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