Unfortunately, there are real-world results suggesting this is not true. The Evolution 8 comes from the factory with Mobil 1 synthetic in it. After putting several dozen Evos on the dyno, Vishnu has noticed that the cars that were broken in on the synthetic almost always made less power than the cars that had regular oil put in immediately after purchase. Furthermore, the ones broken in on Mobil 1 had FAR more hydrocarbons in the crankcase than the ones properly broken in, as well as better leakdown test results.

 

1. How many less HP? 1? or 10? or 50?. I'll gladly give up 5HP to have a longer lasting motor if its really that much.
2. How did they get a non Mobil1 motor dry from the factory seen as they all come to the US with Mobil1 added?
3. Do you think I have as much faith in a little tuner company as I do in 20-25 years of Mobil1 reasearch as well as the wisdom of Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin, etc etc etc?
4. Lets test those same motors after 100000 miles and see who is making more HP now. Come to think of it, that would be one hell of a good test!!!!!!!!!
5. Interesting post but truly lacking in detail. Sorry just MHO.

 

I think ban suvs just means no mobile 1 during break in...after that its fine...and u can switch to synthetic...also isnt synthetic better for the turbo? ive heard that it doesnt make a big difference for the motor..and if ferraris, porsches aand aston martins engines are broken in before manufactoring the car then i understand why they put mobile 1 in, if not we could use an explination...

 

1) 25-35, depending on which specific car you were looking at.
2) They weren't dry, just had the oil changed IMMEDIATELY after purchase, before much break-in had occured.
3) Ferraris, Porsches, Aston Martins, etc. all come from the factory broken in. Those cases do not apply to this debate.
4) I am only suggesting not to break in motors on synthetic.. Naturally each oil change would include it if it were my car.
5) It had sufficient detail until you leapt to incorrect conlusions.

 

25-35? Sounds like Evo's owners have themselves a great Class action lawsuit if they could organize properly. I would be surprised if that Evo motor had not been run in at all before it hit the streets. I became direct because I saw your member name and realized you too jump to conclusions on a routine basis, SIR.
A little touchy with some cross examination? BTW, I've owned 4 SUV's, run synthetic in them all,and have driven some 150,000 miles on them thru rain, ice and snow (WITH 4 SNOWTIRES) from CT to ME so your screen name alone annoys me. Did they dyno those cars after 50K, or 100K to see how much HP they now put out. In other words, maybe it takes HP longer to develop with synthetics because the "breakin period is extended due to lack of wear"?? Just being thorough unlike most researchers I evaluate nowadays. What about Corvette motors. Are they broken in at the factory too? In other words, evaluations of 1-2 cars is shaky, 100 now we're talking. All these questions would be part of a complete evaluation. BTW, just playing devils advocate, we're not on the track!

 

wow, you are really trying to persecute BAN here for some reason. Hes not the one that started this thread, and hes not on an anti-synthetic crusade, he just replied with his observations of what they were experiencing on some of their dyno test, period. If you have a hair up your *** about his name, well thats your problem, and I dont think you will find many people to back you up around here about it, but quit with pointlessly argumentative replies, unless you plan to go get your own dyno and show your own results to the contrary.

 

Not attempting to persecute anyone, just have seen this same argument floated endlessly on Blue Oval News (Mustang Cobra site fyi) and I obviously have read a fair amount on the topic to the contrary. Its a typical persecution complex that Ban is showing. I'm asking questions that are valid.
Here's another 1.
If Evo's are rated at 271HP, are those dyno results saying its only putting out 236-241, or if we break vehicle in with dyno oil, will they ultimately put out 296-301 HP. HUMM!!

Excuse my directness, put if you reread my questions, they would make 1 hell of a post doctoral thesis for a future Petroleum Engineer!

As for SUV support, all vehicles have a purpose including SUV's. I just hate liberal BS. My SUV is parked almost all summer long unless I need to haul or go mtn biking etc. I travel in truly ****ty weather from CT to Maine allwinter long, and drive my SUV with 4 snows thru blizzards, icestorms etc. I see 2-4 Subarus off the road backwards every time the conditions turn ugly. Don't know why, except drivers tend to be conservative, lift and panic??, NO SNOWTIRES. First thing I did with my STI is order 4 ROTA SDR's and 4 Bridgestone LM22's!! Excuse the topic divergence, but this individual is obviously closed minded about the usefullness of a large number of vehicles. Why not ban trucks to include all the pickups that run around empty all day long. Sorry to have offended anyone, but on a chat room, all opinions are created equal.

 

Do you know me? Have you ever spoken to me before you decided to repeatedly take this thread off topic? Were you aware that my username is more of a tongue-in-cheek joke based on my location? I suggest you cease with the personal attacks about people you know less than nothing about.

Back on topic, AGAIN. I do not advise that you break your motor in on synthetic, and I don't care what car you own. You are perfectly free to disagree with me, but I am now telling you to do so in a far less combative manner. To suggest that I have absolutely no evidence to base this statement on is shortsighted and ignorant. I am not sure what your last post mentioning dyno numbers means. It seems as though you believe I am suggesting that cars with regular oil in them read 40 horsepower higher than those with synthetic! Hardly the case. What I stated, and am now forced to restate a third time, is that synthetic oil does not have the frictional properties needed to ensure that the rings properly seal against the cylinder walls. This is supported by dyno charts showing that weak Evos, typically broken in on the Mobil 1 synthetic, have more leakdown, lower compression, and make less power than engines that are properly broken in using standard oil. This power gap ranges from 10 to 35 horsepower depending on whose particular car you wish to use for each baseline. Please stop twisting my words to suggest that I am saying that synthetic oil is inferior to $.99 per quart Jiffy Lube crap. It's not. But engine break-in is nothing more than a controlled premature wear of the engine, partially bearings, but mroe importantly the ring-to-cylinder interface. The same properties of synthetic oil that protect the engine from wear during its life are the exact opposite of what is needed for good break-in.

Now for the last time, if you wish to continue this discussion of the merits of one type of oil compared to another here, please do so. But I will no longer tolerate off topic rants about anything else. If you wish to continue to attack me personally, please do so in another thread so it can be handled appropriately without punishing other users who are simply trying to ask questions and get answers.

 

1) This is a technical bulletin, please keep it that way. Personal beef with Ban Suvs needs to be taken to Random thoughts, or PMs/E-mail. If you post one more time, and instigate off topic, this thread will be tossed out. Period. Feel good that a Moderator didn't toss this already. Ban Suvs easily can. IF this was on Nabisco, and you said that to a moderator, the thread would have disappeared. We are far more fair, so plan nice, and keep to the topic.

2) For real Dyno numbers on the EVO, i suggest you visit www.vishnutuning.com. They are the most conservative.

Alright guys, keep this about dyno vs synthetic, got it?

-Gagan

 

Cuse the off topic banter. Sorry Ban, just don't like the instigating nature of the name.

Back to Synthetics

I reread all the posts from the earlier thread, and see a very different slant on the topic there. Seems that a lot of racers understand the need to teach the ECU, and USE Synthetics relatively early seen as break in of motor is essentially done after a few hundred miles in their eyes. My butt agrres that by 500 miles car had essentially loosened up.

I still want to see the thread that shows Evo's with and without Synthetics during breakin. The materials and methods would help also. Do they make more than stock numbers on dino?

I'm at 1400 on original oil, so its time for me to see some raw data to support staying with dino.

 

You're still not seeing my point. It's only those first couple hundred miles of break-in that require non-synthetic. The first oil change and every subsequent one should be done with synthetic for absolute best protection from wear and longer life. As far as the thread of these results, I don't know that there is one particular thread posted by Shiv with consolidated dyno results between Evos. I do know that it is our policy to recommend to all Evo customers that they immediately remove the synthetic from the car once they buy it and break it in on dino. This is because thefirst few Evos he tested posted relatively low numbers and subsequently failed leakdown and hydrocarbon content tests. It wasn't a matter of one oil making more power than the other, it was a matter of some motors not getting good ring seal as a result of poor break-in.

 

Gotcha, will try to get off on a better footing with you in the future. I fully agree that its time to go synthetic. No need to wait 2000, 3000,3750, 5000, 10000, etc like all these "mechanics" propose. Sounds like Mitsubishi screwed up pretty royally!!!
They forgot to break in the motors and just wanted it to look good on the window sticker that vehicles came with Mobil1. I'm now very glad I chose the STI over the Evo cause I didn't know it was the presale break in that mattered. My 1993 Alfa Romeo 164 came from the factory synthetic but they also ran them for 50 miles at ~130 on the track to "break them in"!!! before we got them. Probably did the run in and switched over to the syn before sale.