Needed Advice
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Needed Advice
Currently installed
Full exhaust (headers, up/down, cat back)
Greddy electronic boost controller
XXtunning FMIC
Looking to install:
FP Green turbo
850cc fuel injectors
larger fuel pump
my questions:
any advice on installation of parts or potential problems?
recommendations on types of injectors or pumps?
Stand alone fuel managment neccessary?
Are there any other performance upgrades worth doing?
Any feed back would be appreciated
Full exhaust (headers, up/down, cat back)
Greddy electronic boost controller
XXtunning FMIC
Looking to install:
FP Green turbo
850cc fuel injectors
larger fuel pump
my questions:
any advice on installation of parts or potential problems?
recommendations on types of injectors or pumps?
Stand alone fuel managment neccessary?
Are there any other performance upgrades worth doing?
Any feed back would be appreciated
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 152
stand alone EM is not necessary, many folks are running UTECs very successfully.
Even a simple a/f controller will do the job but you have limitations on adjusting timing.
you seem to be on track for your mods, you may want to consider parralel feed fuel rails such as perrin's.
that said, find a reputable tuner who can scale your injectors properly an calibrate your MAF sensor if you have a CAI or shorty for intake.
Even a simple a/f controller will do the job but you have limitations on adjusting timing.
you seem to be on track for your mods, you may want to consider parralel feed fuel rails such as perrin's.
that said, find a reputable tuner who can scale your injectors properly an calibrate your MAF sensor if you have a CAI or shorty for intake.
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From: Rockland County...NY
Car Info: want a WRX
If you are upgrading your turbo, it's not the best idea to run with an A/F controller for too long. I've heard people who have done it, but you can't really get the full potential of the setup that way. Get some sort of reflash or stand alone for the best results. Look at some of the packages vishnu and TXS and other popular tuners offer for an idea of what you need and should get.
On a side note, as far as i know, most tuners don't tune for CAI/short rams, it's not worth the time/cost for very few HP (if any).
On a side note, as far as i know, most tuners don't tune for CAI/short rams, it's not worth the time/cost for very few HP (if any).
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 152
Originally Posted by awns729
If you are upgrading your turbo, it's not the best idea to run with an A/F controller for too long. I've heard people who have done it, but you can't really get the full potential of the setup that way. Get some sort of reflash or stand alone for the best results. Look at some of the packages vishnu and TXS and other popular tuners offer for an idea of what you need and should get.
On a side note, as far as i know, most tuners don't tune for CAI/short rams, it's not worth the time/cost for very few HP (if any).
On a side note, as far as i know, most tuners don't tune for CAI/short rams, it's not worth the time/cost for very few HP (if any).
IMO this is wrong. A/F controllers are fine, BUT they are for the buget limited folks and have the only drawback of not being able to adjust your timing...which is needed to completely maximize gains.
Tuners who can't tune for CAI/Short rams ..you shouldnt be spending money with because it can absolutely be done! A tuner that knows what they are doing with Engine Mangement that is capable, can easily calibrate the MAF so the CAI can be utilized properly and recieve gains.
Bottom line, get a custom tune by a reputable tuner that knows your choice of EM inside and out. A Motec standalone with enough features to launch the space shuttle isnt worth crap if the tuner doesn't know its features.
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Posts: 4,568
From: Rockland County...NY
Car Info: want a WRX
I don't believe Vishnu or TXS offer CAI tuning, actually. They are the two top tuners (IMHO) for Subarus. As far as I remember reading, many people have said that the HP gains from CAI/Short ram are not worth the time and money spent, especially since its a turbo car and the OEM intake (which takes in air from the fender, I believe) is more than sufficient unless you have a FMIC or > ~300WHP.
If you're going to spend all that money for a new turbo and all the supporting modifications and then settle for a A/F controller, I don't think you should do the mods in the first place. And there are more draw backs than just not being able to adjust timing. With a UTEC, you can adjust boost throughout the powerband, tune for injectors, etc. I think a reflash or Cobb's engine control products are good as well, and cheaper. Any aftermarket ECU system has significant horsepower gains, and they're pretty damn safe. I'd take it over an A/F controller.
If you're going to spend all that money for a new turbo and all the supporting modifications and then settle for a A/F controller, I don't think you should do the mods in the first place. And there are more draw backs than just not being able to adjust timing. With a UTEC, you can adjust boost throughout the powerband, tune for injectors, etc. I think a reflash or Cobb's engine control products are good as well, and cheaper. Any aftermarket ECU system has significant horsepower gains, and they're pretty damn safe. I'd take it over an A/F controller.
Last edited by awns729; Apr 10, 2005 at 06:36 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 152
you're right about spending money on a worthwhile EM if you are going to buy a big turbo and supporting mods, why go cheap on the EM at that stage?
A/F IMO is for the buget minded, it works, but not the end all and finest solution.
As far as vishnu and TXS not offering CAI tuning, you might be right with thier hp in a box mail away solutions. I dont believe in stage kits or HP in a box like the new craze of these AP stage kits. All cars are not equal off the showroom floor.
I havnt dealt with vishnu for tuning but I would be VERY surprised if TXS does not offer CAI tuning with their dyno sessions. Utec has the capablities to calibrate the MAF sensor.
a Ecutek reflash is the safest EM , IMO...any of the other EM's are dangerous for anyone who doesnt know the consequences of changing parameters. A "simple" a/f controller can easily blow up your car if you dont use it right.
A/F IMO is for the buget minded, it works, but not the end all and finest solution.
As far as vishnu and TXS not offering CAI tuning, you might be right with thier hp in a box mail away solutions. I dont believe in stage kits or HP in a box like the new craze of these AP stage kits. All cars are not equal off the showroom floor.
I havnt dealt with vishnu for tuning but I would be VERY surprised if TXS does not offer CAI tuning with their dyno sessions. Utec has the capablities to calibrate the MAF sensor.
a Ecutek reflash is the safest EM , IMO...any of the other EM's are dangerous for anyone who doesnt know the consequences of changing parameters. A "simple" a/f controller can easily blow up your car if you dont use it right.
Last edited by fastnoypi; Apr 10, 2005 at 06:56 PM.
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From: Rockland County...NY
Car Info: want a WRX
Originally Posted by Wingless Wonder
Hey, Arwin. Shiv at Vishnu Performance will tune just about any intake a customer prefers to use. He will normally point out that there is no significant advantage over the factory airbox/intake for mildly modified engines (i.e. VF30/34 upgraded turbo and injectors).
I watched Shiv dyno tune a car with an intake a while back (March 2003, I think). He warned the owner after the baseline dyno pulls that the MAF readings were erratic because of the intake. He showed us the air/fuel ratio graph from the dyno pull and it had many tiny 'jaggies' instead of a much smoother curve of the factory intake-equipped car. It took about an extra hour of dyno pulls and tuning but Shiv eventually got the air/fuel ratio curve where it should have been in the first place - no gain.
Like most tuners, Shiv charges by the hour for dyno tuning so this customer would have had to cough up an extra $150 to 200 if it hadn't been a special Vishnu Performance Tuning event that weekend.
Short version - experienced tuners can tune for just about any intake on a Subaru but for street-driven vehicles there's nothing much to be gained for the time and expense. Obviously, mail order stage-type kits cannot hope to include a map that would cover every single intake on the market.
-- Alan
I watched Shiv dyno tune a car with an intake a while back (March 2003, I think). He warned the owner after the baseline dyno pulls that the MAF readings were erratic because of the intake. He showed us the air/fuel ratio graph from the dyno pull and it had many tiny 'jaggies' instead of a much smoother curve of the factory intake-equipped car. It took about an extra hour of dyno pulls and tuning but Shiv eventually got the air/fuel ratio curve where it should have been in the first place - no gain.
Like most tuners, Shiv charges by the hour for dyno tuning so this customer would have had to cough up an extra $150 to 200 if it hadn't been a special Vishnu Performance Tuning event that weekend.
Short version - experienced tuners can tune for just about any intake on a Subaru but for street-driven vehicles there's nothing much to be gained for the time and expense. Obviously, mail order stage-type kits cannot hope to include a map that would cover every single intake on the market.
-- Alan
I kinda wasn't thinking about the tuning sessions they offer.Yeah, UTECs can do a lot, but from what I've been hearing, it's still not really worth it. There are so many other better mods, IMO.
I agree with your EM comment. The Accessport is pretty damn cool too.
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