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manual boost contoller

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Old Aug 18, 2004 | 04:27 AM
  #1  
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manual boost contoller

my friend gave me his turbosmart manual controller...with nothing else....and he then he suddenly moved back to japan, and completely lost contact with him...
i dont got any instructions....much help would be great....ill figure out mounting later, i just want to hook it up
thanx

-brendon
Old Aug 18, 2004 | 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by yamatodamashii
my friend gave me his turbosmart manual controller...with nothing else....and he then he suddenly moved back to japan, and completely lost contact with him...
i dont got any instructions....much help would be great....ill figure out mounting later, i just want to hook it up
thanx

-brendon
Manual boost controllers alone are definitely not recomended.

From my understanding the added pressure can sometimes cauase the motor to run lean and thats simply very bad. If you plan to use it you better do it right and get a ecu tuning device so the engine map will work with the boost.

Or better yet forget it and just use the ecu's tuning.
Old Aug 19, 2004 | 12:21 AM
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Ugh... cut it with the crappy advice already, geez.

manual boost controllers are fine, but you cannot treat them like a well made electronic solenoid boost controller. I'd maybe use them (on a WRX) for 0.5 to 1.0 PSI more boost otherwise you run into troubles very early on like full boost at partial throttle (search on "PTFB" for more dicussions than you can read in a lifetime).

Also a manual boost controller is like a bomb in your engine when used by the wrong hands. Learn how a wastegate works and why a manual boost controller does what it does. Without too much detail, you have a tube coming from the intake side of your turbo to the exhaust side. From this tube the exhaust side senses the pressure (boost) from the intake side. When the intake side pressure gets too high, the exhaust side will let some exhaust bypass the turbo and keep boost down. What you are doing is sticking this boost controller inline with that tube and altering how the exhaust side of the turbo perceives boost on the intake side. You're essentially causing the intake side to lie about the actual boost. The exhaust sees less boost and allows you to keep raising boost. Some manual boost controllers "lie" by bleeding off a little boost that the exhaust would sense. Some do it by blocking the boost. The more you lie, the more boost gets added. If you lie to much, *kaboom*. Boost keeps rising until something blows up.

Manuals are more problematic than electronic ones mostly because they are less accurate in multiple ways. The do no all hold peak boost equally as well, usually the creep to more boost than you want. They do not all hold boost equally as well at different interim boost levels. They do not contribute to fuel regulation or have a sense for the Air/Fuel Ratio and so can create lean conditions (more kaboom).

Personally, I'd say, sure play with it as a novelty. But if you want to really do a beneficial upgrade, invest a few hundred $ in a decent boost controller that can safely limit boost electronically and controls boost efficiently.

jason
Old Aug 19, 2004 | 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mmboost

Also a manual boost controller is like a bomb in your engine when used by the wrong hands.
Sorry buddy about the advice thing

I was just trying to do the safe than sorry method
Old Aug 19, 2004 | 05:05 AM
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naw thanx for your opinions...helps in decision making...but ya i guess ill jus keep tha lil piece of crap around, and save the $$$ for electronic controller, i just want 2-4lbs more for track...
thanx for the .02 much appreciated
Old Aug 19, 2004 | 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by yamatodamashii
naw thanx for your opinions...helps in decision making...but ya i guess ill jus keep tha lil piece of crap around, and save the $$$ for electronic controller, i just want 2-4lbs more for track...
thanx for the .02 much appreciated
Even with an EBC you most likely wont see 4 more PSI. Your ECU has a boost limiter (via fuel cut) and it comes on for most people around 17PSI, give or take a few tenths. Stock boost is around 14PSI, give or take a few tenths. If you want to more than a pound or two extra, you shold consider investing in a UTEC or reflash. Those two-ish options will actually give you better performance all around and nix the problems that come with just raising boost. It by "track" you mean "road course" the computer upgrade would be optimal. But if you just mean "drag strip" a stand-alone boost controller isn't that bad of a choice issue since you're pretty much at 100% TPS the whole time.

jason
Old Aug 19, 2004 | 01:26 PM
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MBC's are fine as long as you know the max boost you should run (no more than 15.5psi w/o tuning or high octane). You also need to read up on PTFB as that's really the main concern when running any aftermarket boost control... including a fancy EBC. I made a device to alleviate the PTFB problem, but I can't really advertise it here yet

-- Ed
Old Aug 19, 2004 | 01:56 PM
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i disagree about mbcs being less accurate.

to the contrary, i have always found a good quality mbc far superior in terms of repeatability and freedom from spiking/overshoot.

i won't NOT run one on my car!

jm2c
ken
Old Aug 19, 2004 | 02:26 PM
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People who have a good overall understanding of how their motor works and more importantly the wastegate, can run MBCs. But people who come on the board and say "I got this MBC, how does it work? Can anybody help me install it?" should definitely not run them.
Old Aug 19, 2004 | 03:48 PM
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With any boost control (EBC or MBC), comes a big responsibility. You're taking an important factor into your hands. Its your responsibility to learn and understand what you can and can't do otherwise you will end up with a melted motor. Asking questions here is a good start, but you also need to do some research on your own.

-- Ed
Old Aug 20, 2004 | 12:42 AM
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yep... my dawes MBC is set to ~15psi max and my boost also tapers down to 12-13psi by redline. The only times I've seen it spike is on really hard shifts... mostly downshifts... and even then it spikes for only a split second. I'm going to try a higher quality MBC to see if it helps with the spike. Personally I like MBC's a lot... even better than EBC's or the OEM boost control. They will always spool the turbo ATLEAST as fast as the best EBC, and in almost all cases, faster. Its also a nice simple mechanical system with much less room for failure.

-- Ed
Old Aug 20, 2004 | 05:39 AM
  #13  
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what i have found for mbc stability:

keep the hoses SHORT.
keep couplers, etc, OUT of the system.
increasing the bleed between the ball/spring and the wga will help stability.
tightening wga arm increases spiking.

also, there ARE differences in ball/spring mbc quality. a quick test can be done: attempt to blow through the mbc with your mouth while it is disconnected from the rest of the boost control system. a good ball/spring will make a good seal and prevent air from passing. one of lesser quality will not make a good pneumatic seal and will allow air to flow through it, even when it should be "off."

in my case, the difference between a hallman evo rx and a joe p was like night and day.

jm2c
ken
Old Aug 20, 2004 | 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mmboost
Also a manual boost controller is like a bomb in your engine when used by the wrong hands.
are you saying the boost controller is in the engine?

haha just messin with ya :banana:
Old Aug 21, 2004 | 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ride5000
i disagree about mbcs being less accurate.

to the contrary, i have always found a good quality mbc far superior in terms of repeatability and freedom from spiking/overshoot.

i won't NOT run one on my car!

jm2c
ken
How could a mechanical device, a spring and a ball at best, which is fully subject to ambient temperature (at the least), be equally as accurate as an electronic solenoid of equal boost hold rating which can adjust itself scores to hundreds of times a second, fully able to compensate for ambient constituencies? How could a MBC know the difference between slowly rising boost and fast rising boost? Most MBC are prone to some sort of spike and pretty much all cannot maintain (up or down) boost levels with the same (or any) sort of accuracy like a BCS. And, to really hit it home a dual solenoid setup like the Blitz Spec-R or SBD-iD is incredibly accurate and does a great job at mainting boost and holding creep at bay.



jason



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