EQ Tuning - Engine Build Packages!
12-01-2010, 08:18 AM
#211
This has nothing to do with efficiency or good deals you're getting. Here's a breakdown. Pistons are $400-$500, bearings are $100-$150, add up the misc seals, lubes, and fluids for another $20-$30. That's $550-$700 before you even get started. So now you have to clean, inspect, mic, and magnaflux the crank, rods, and block ($100-$150). Assuming everything checks out, you polish the crank ($50). Now you need to get a good bore, hone, and deck on the block, hopefully with a torque plate, then a final sonic cleaning ($600-$800 depending on who does it and how they so it). Of course I'm assuming there is no balancing or line honing taking place. That adds up to roughly $1400 before you even think about clearancing and assembly. So now you're left with about $200 to finish the build.
Now this is the problem. How do you fit roughly 8 hours worth of work into $200? The only solution I see is to take shortcuts like not checking clearances, doing away with the plastigauge, forgetting any blueprinting, and rushing through the assembly. The only other option is that you're still doing all this but selling yourself extremely cheaply to try to undercut your competition to draw in more business.
It's pretty simple IMO.
-- Ed
Last edited by EQ Tuning; 12-01-2010 at 08:23 AM.
12-01-2010, 09:50 AM
#212
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I see that you are pretty wound up about this sale.
In case you missed it, this is a sale, meaning the price is good for a limited time.
It is designed to generate more business, which is the point of being in business.
I am offering the same, if not better, product for less money.
Don't like it?
Tough ****.
You are blueprinting every motor?
Meaning that you provide a multi page "blue print" of every engine you build?
A blueprint that another shop could use to build/assemble an exact duplicate motor?
What "blueprint" are you assembly your motors to?
Do you even know what "blueprinting means?
From what you've posted, your costs are higher than mine.
There are no short cuts taken, and for you to insinuate that is unprofessional.
Instead of attacking a competitor, you should spend more time running your business?
In case you missed it, this is a sale, meaning the price is good for a limited time.
It is designed to generate more business, which is the point of being in business.
I am offering the same, if not better, product for less money.
Don't like it?
Tough ****.
You are blueprinting every motor?
Meaning that you provide a multi page "blue print" of every engine you build?
A blueprint that another shop could use to build/assemble an exact duplicate motor?
What "blueprint" are you assembly your motors to?
Do you even know what "blueprinting means?
From what you've posted, your costs are higher than mine.
There are no short cuts taken, and for you to insinuate that is unprofessional.
Instead of attacking a competitor, you should spend more time running your business?
This has nothing to do with efficiency or good deals you're getting. Here's a breakdown. Pistons are $400-$500, bearings are $100-$150, add up the misc seals, lubes, and fluids for another $20-$30. That's $550-$700 before you even get started. So now you have to clean, inspect, mic, and magnaflux the crank, rods, and block ($100-$150). Assuming everything checks out, you polish the crank ($50). Now you need to get a good bore, hone, and deck on the block, hopefully with a torque plate, then a final sonic cleaning ($600-$800 depending on who does it and how they so it). Of course I'm assuming there is no balancing or line honing taking place. That adds up to roughly $1400 before you even think about clearancing and assembly. So now you're left with about $200 to finish the build.
Now this is the problem. How do you fit roughly 8 hours worth of work into $200? The only solution I see is to take shortcuts like not checking clearances, doing away with the plastigauge, forgetting any blueprinting, and rushing through the assembly. The only other option is that you're still doing all this but selling yourself extremely cheaply to try to undercut your competition to draw in more business.
It's pretty simple IMO.
-- Ed
Now this is the problem. How do you fit roughly 8 hours worth of work into $200? The only solution I see is to take shortcuts like not checking clearances, doing away with the plastigauge, forgetting any blueprinting, and rushing through the assembly. The only other option is that you're still doing all this but selling yourself extremely cheaply to try to undercut your competition to draw in more business.
It's pretty simple IMO.
-- Ed
12-01-2010, 10:03 AM
#213
I see that you are pretty wound up about this sale.
In case you missed it, this is a sale, meaning the price is good for a limited time.
It is designed to generate more business, which is the point of being in business.
I am offering the same, if not better, product for less money.
Don't like it?
Tough ****.
You are blueprinting every motor?
Meaning that you provide a multi page "blue print" of every engine you build?
A blueprint that another shop could use to build/assemble an exact duplicate motor?
What "blueprint" are you assembly your motors to?
Do you even know what "blueprinting means?
From what you've posted, your costs are higher than mine.
There are no short cuts taken, and for you to insinuate that is unprofessional.
Instead of attacking a competitor, you should spend more time running your business?
In case you missed it, this is a sale, meaning the price is good for a limited time.
It is designed to generate more business, which is the point of being in business.
I am offering the same, if not better, product for less money.
Don't like it?
Tough ****.
You are blueprinting every motor?
Meaning that you provide a multi page "blue print" of every engine you build?
A blueprint that another shop could use to build/assemble an exact duplicate motor?
What "blueprint" are you assembly your motors to?
Do you even know what "blueprinting means?
From what you've posted, your costs are higher than mine.
There are no short cuts taken, and for you to insinuate that is unprofessional.
Instead of attacking a competitor, you should spend more time running your business?
For the record, I wasn't attacking anyone, simply responding to your posts directly attacking MY pricing and MY business:
I have no problem with you running a sale, but when its directly and openly aimed at undercutting my pricing, I do take issue with it. That is very unprofessional IMO and truly speaks to your own insecurity in your product quality.
-- Ed
12-01-2010, 10:19 AM
#214
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Yes I'm blueprinting every engine I build and provide each customer with a build sheet with all recorded measurements. My costs for machine work may be a bit higher than yours because the work is more precise and the end result is better. All of our blocks are honed with a torque plate on a CNC machine, for example.
"Better" in what sense?
How do you know your product is "better" than mine?
Again with the personal attacks?
12-01-2010, 11:09 AM
#215
Better in the sense that the resulting bore is exactly to spec in terms of piston-wall clearance, runout, taper, etc. Further, using a torque plate means that our bores are consistent and not subject to deformation once heads are torqued to the shortblock. For most of our builds, we also line hone the main bearing housings to achieve an exact bearing oil clearance spec across all bearings. We also generally balance the crank, rods, and pistons.
-- Ed
12-01-2010, 12:09 PM
#216
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We've been providing build sheets since the first few builds we ever did. We have all the build sheets on file and available to all customers on request.
Better in the sense that the resulting bore is exactly to spec in terms of piston-wall clearance, runout, taper, etc. Further, using a torque plate means that our bores are consistent and not subject to deformation once heads are torqued to the shortblock. For most of our builds, we also line hone the main bearing housings to achieve an exact bearing oil clearance spec across all bearings. We also generally balance the crank, rods, and pistons.
-- Ed
Better in the sense that the resulting bore is exactly to spec in terms of piston-wall clearance, runout, taper, etc. Further, using a torque plate means that our bores are consistent and not subject to deformation once heads are torqued to the shortblock. For most of our builds, we also line hone the main bearing housings to achieve an exact bearing oil clearance spec across all bearings. We also generally balance the crank, rods, and pistons.
-- Ed
Again, focus on running/improving your own business instead of attacking another shop.
12-01-2010, 12:26 PM
#217
And again, I'm very much focused on my business and did not say a word until you directly attacked my pricing as I quoted above.
-- Ed
12-01-2010, 12:54 PM
#218
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My speculation is purely based on your pricing. If you figured out how to do everything by the book and not take shortcuts, and still provide the pricing you do, that's great. But you would be the first shop in the country to do so. So far you have said nothing to make anyone believe this is the case.
And again, I'm very much focused on my business and did not say a word until you directly attacked my pricing as I quoted above.
-- Ed
And again, I'm very much focused on my business and did not say a word until you directly attacked my pricing as I quoted above.
-- Ed
Shop A compares their pricing with Shop B is not an attack.
Shop B stating that Shop A produces an inferior product is not only an attack, it's unprofessional.
Do you understand what a "loss leader" is in marketing?
12-01-2010, 01:05 PM
#219
Calm down Paul. The fact remains that you directly and openly compared your product and price to ours. It stands to reason that at that point, I'm open to explain what we do differently and what sets our product apart from yours. Notice I did not go into your thread and post, nor did I directly talk about your product until you came into my thread. I know you can carry on with this BS for a long time, but I don't have the time to indulge you, so lets stop it here.
-- Ed
-- Ed
12-01-2010, 01:27 PM
#220
iClub Silver Vendor
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Calm down Paul. The fact remains that you directly and openly compared your product and price to ours. It stands to reason that at that point, I'm open to explain what we do differently and what sets our product apart from yours. Notice I did not go into your thread and post, nor did I directly talk about your product until you came into my thread. I know you can carry on with this BS for a long time, but I don't have the time to indulge you, so lets stop it here.
-- Ed
-- Ed
I never mentioned a shop, a person, etc in any post.
Wow...
