hotrod

Many of you may not know that the NHRA is making some rule changes this year that will effect a lot of people.

http://www.nhra.com/2004/news/november/110102.html

Most people have focused on the changes in the roll bar rules by moving the point where they are required down from 11.99, to the mid 11's

You may want to focus instead on the changes that will effect intercoolers due to changes in the general regulations.

--------------------------

They will be making these revisions in the Sport RWD/AWD class


Minimum weights
4 cyl RWD (1 power adder) 2600 pounds
4 cyl RWD (2 power adders) 2700 pounds
4 cyl AWD (1 power adder) 3000 pounds
4 cyl AWD (2 power adders) 3100 pounds
2 rotor RWD (1 power adder) 2600 pounds
2 rotor RWD (2 power adders) 2700 pounds
6 cyl RWD or AWD (1 power adder) 3500 pounds
6 cyl RWD or AWD (2 power adders) 3650 pounds

Engine
Intercooler must be air to air only.

Transmission
Transmission must be from same manufacturer, no crossbreeding; i.e. Mazda/Ford, Toyota/GM, etc.

Rearend
OEM rearend mandatory. <----- no upgrading to R180 diff

Electrical
OEM 12 volt system mandatory. 16 volt batteries/electrical system prohibited.

-------------------

Well I've begun to correspond with the tech guy at NHRA, here is a summary of where we are now.

They made a change in the General rules section that may impact some turbocharged cars. They added a specific prohibition to "spraying the intake".

I am currently carrying on an e-mail debate with one of the NHRA tech folks. He had no clue that the EVO and the STi came stock from the factory with an intercooler water spray system. He also seemed to be oblivious that a number of import racers have the Nitrous/CO2 chill spray loops for their intercoolers. He also was apparently oblivious that the SRT-4 now has a factory performance package that includes a water spray system.
I've also mentioned Ford's new Supercooler system that they show cased on the 2003 SVT Ford Lightning concept truck. Ford has a patent on this system and I would be surprised if it does not show up on a production platorm soon.

This system would be illegal (as are the spray loops that folks have been running for years) under the "ambient temperature air" caveat in the rules.

I pointed out that the wording of the rule on ambient temperature air is so poorly stated and the definition of "intake" is undefined so it is essentially unenforcable. If enforced litterally even a factory heat riser or emissions control system that heats the intake air is illegal. If you are protested, there is no way a racer can "Prove" he is providing ambient temperature air to the engine as they do not define how where and when the ambient temp must be measured. It will be a totally subjective call by tech, that likely will be used to discriminate against import, and ignored on Mustang SVT's and turbo diesels etc. Where is the reference point for it being ambient air? Is it at the air filter, the throttle body etc. etc.

There seems to be a move to take away some of the performance advantage from high effeciency intercooler systems. Interestingly enough if the ambient temp rule is rigerously enforced it would also outlaw nitrous and propane injection systems because both drastically modify the "intake air conditions".

I'm just playing the devils advocate with them, to see what happens.
I'm also pushing the issue that the NHRA is trying to draw the street racers onto the strip for sanctioned racing, and then the first thing they do is out law a common configuration used by street racers.

I suspect Holley (NOS), Nitrous Express, and DEI who all three sell aftermarket intercooler chill systems, have not even noticed yet that some of their product line is now illegal for drag racing.

Here's an excerpt from his last email.

The NHRA Rulebook states "Any method of artificially cooling or
heating fuel prohibited (i.e., cool cans, Freon, wet rags, ECT.) except
as noted in class requirements. Cool cans, wet towels, ect. Are
permitted in Super Stock, Stock, Super Comp, Super Gas, Super Street,
and E.T. classes. Wet towels, rags, ice, ect. must be removed before
vehicle leaves staging area. Ambient-temperature air only; cooling or
otherwise changing of the condition of the intake air is prohibited.
Spraying of the intake with any artificial spray or coolant prohibited."


The only thing added to the 2005 NHRA Rulebook was the last sentence,
to clarify the correct interpretation of the rule. In the beginning of
all NHRA Rulebooks under how to use this rulebook in bold print it also
states "As a general rule, unless optional equipment or modification is
specifically permitted by this rulebook, it is prohibited."

I was building a CO2 spray loop for my car to manage intercooler temps while bracket racing. I am applying a little pressure to see what happens.

I know what the common sense interpretation is, but can anyone give me a "legal definition" of an "artificial spray or coolant". Does that mean I can't spray my intercooler with plutonium, but all natural water is okay


And before anyone says it-- Yes spraying Nitrous on the intercooler is inferior to spraying it in the engine. But as a matter of principal, I strongly oppose over regulation of racing. The object of racing should be to encourage innovation not conformance to a bland standard.

At first I expected their position would be the safety issue of water on the track (easily avoided by putting a catch tray under the intercooler). But to my surprise the water on the track issue has not even come up in three emails.

That leads me to believe the issue is to quash the performance advantage of > unity effeciency intercoolers.

The simple solution would be to give a weight handicap for their use, or consider them as a power adder.

I know they had a safety issue with the acetone/dry ice coolers due to both fire hazard in a crash and life safety for rescuers and driver post crash. I have no problem with that.

I do have a problem with the inconsistant situation where I can legally add 150 hp with a nitrous system but I can't avoid the loss of 20 hp with a CO2 intercooler chiller. It just strikes me as absurd --- especially when everyone is grousing about how to make racing affordable.


Hmm lets see, $1000 for a good nitrous system or, a home built Icewater chiller that might cost $150, or a CO2 spray bar that will cost me just over $200 when I count only the parts needed for the final design.


I just noticed that he may be quoting from the standard rule book instead of the NHRA sport compact book.

Here is the same section in the 2004 book:

pg 66 Section 9 General regulations

Fuel/Air: Any method of artificially cooling or heating fuel prohibited, except for cool cans. Wet towels, rags, ice, etc. Must be removed before vehicle leaves staging area. Intercoolers may be cooled with nitrous oxide or freon. Liquid intercooler tanks limited to maximum 3 -gallon capacity, may use water/ice ONLY. If located in driver compartment, must be securely mounted to frameor frame structure.



Larry

More to follow

hotrod

In my first reply from the NHRA tech guys I was assured that WI is legal.

Here is the full email response.
========================

Larry,

No need to stop racing, your water injections is still legal. This
rule was to keep rags, ice, freon ect. from being used while making a
pass.

Pat Cvengros

Technical Services Representative

(626) 250-2295

----Original Message-----
From: larryl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 1:15 PM
To: Danny Gracia
Subject: Need clarification on new rules -- "Spraying of intake"


On your announcement at:

http://www.nhra.com/2004/news/november/110102.html

It includes the following:

"General Regulations
Spraying of the intake with any artificial spray or coolant is not
allowed. "

I am unclear on what exactly you are trying to prohibit. Depending on
how this is interpreted at the local level it could out law a host of long
standing performance techniques and even some stock OEM systems.

Is this intended to outlaw spraying of turbocharger intercoolers with
CO2, Nitrous, Freon or water to control the intercooler temperature?

Is this intended to outlaw water injection systems?

Any clarification of this would be very useful, as some stock cars come
with OEM intercooler water spray systems from the factory, and many
turbocharged imports have added an intercooler spray system to prevent
detonation due to high charge air temps, and as a way to achieve a very
effective low cost power increase.

I also just spent quite a bit of money for a water injection setup to
avoid having to buy $4.00+ race gas. If WI is outlawed I will probably
stop racing at NHRA drag strips, as I'm not willing to risk destroying
my engine or going broke buying "race gas" for a few passes at the strip.

It is impossible for a turbocharged car to be competitive in bracket
racing if there is no legal means to control the intercooler temperature
prior to a run.

On the Subaru WRX for example, the topmount intercooler temperature can
increase by 50 - 100 degrees F if your held at the line with the hood
closed, through no fault of your own. By then its too late to change
your dial in. Even if you have the time to open the hood, it will slow
everyone down if folks are forced to hop out of the car and open up the hood
every time there is the slightest delay. Once these intercoolers get heat
soaked it can take up to a half an hour to get them cooled off without a spray
system.

Thanks for your time.

Larry

hotrod

NHRA Tech email #2
Larry,

This is not a new rule the same wording can be found on page 192 of the
2004 NHRA Rulebook; it can also be found in the 1998 NHRA Rulebook page
152. So as you can see this is nothing new.

The NHRA Rulebook states "Any method of artificially cooling or
heating fuel prohibited (i.e., cool cans, Freon, wet rags, ECT.) except
as noted in class requirements. Cool cans, wet towels, ect. Are
permitted in Super Stock, Stock, Super Comp, Super Gas, Super Street,
and E.T. classes. Wet towels, rags, ice, ect. must be removed before
vehicle leaves staging area. Ambient-temperature air only; cooling or
otherwise changing of the condition of the intake air is prohibited.
Spraying of the intake with any artificial spray or coolant prohibited."


The only thing added to the 2005 NHRA Rulebook was the last sentence,
to clarify the correct interpretation of the rule. In the beginning of
all NHRA Rulebooks under how to use this rulebook in bold print it also
states "As a general rule, unless optional equipment or modification is
specifically permitted by this rulebook, it is prohibited."

I honestly don't believe your car would no longer be competitive if you
did not use a spray on the intercooler. What about the guy that has a
naturally aspirated car; what does he do when the ambient temperature
increases, he adjusts is dial accordingly. This is a bracket race with
dial-ins set by the racer, not first to the finish line wins.

In the many races I have attended, I have never seen anyone use any
type of spray on the intercooler, or manifold as the vehicle went down
the track; or in the staging lanes. As this would be prohibited by the
NHRA Rulebook. Therefore I don't think it will have the ill effect on
our sport compact racers you seem to think it will.

As for addressing the issue of cars from the manufacturer, I don't
believe there is one; as I am not aware of any vehicle coming from the
OEM with a system that sprays the intercooler.

Pat Cvengros

Technical Services Representative

(626) 250-2295


-----Original Message-----
From: larryl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:25 PM
To: Pat Cvengros
Subject: Re: Re: Need clarification on new rules -- "Spraying of intake"

So all the external spray coolers that pre-chill or increase the
cooling capacity of intercoolers with water spray, CO2 or Nitrous are now
banned?

Are they only banned during the actual run it self or can they be used
in staging to control heat soak on the intercooler prior to staging?

Products like the Nitrous Express N-tercooler for example.

Depending on how you answer the above, could mean all the money I spent
building a custom CO2 and water intercooler chiller so I could compete
in brackets is down the toilet.

I'm rather upset that apparently the NHRA did not bother to put out the
word in a reasonable period of time that these systems would be banned
in 2005.

I just spent several hundred dollars and many hours of my time
designing and fabricating a custom external spray system of that type.

Color me not pleased!

This regulation will hit the import crowd very hard. The import folks
have no clue these systems will be illegal. That is the reason I queried you
about the subject, so I could post it back to some of the boards and get
the word out from an authoritative source.

Your going to have a lot of unhappy import racers (the folks your trying
to draw into your sport/organization) when they get to the strip and
find out they can't run, or must run without the benefit or adequate cooling.

Some means of controlling the temperature of engine bay mounted
intercoolers on imports like the WRX (which I have) is absolutely
essential to being competitive in brackets.

I have watched my intercooler temperature increase at the rate of several
degrees F every minute I am sitting in staging with the hood closed.
I've closed the hood as I got my run ticket punched, with an intercooler case
temp of 75 deg F, and actually staged with an intercooler temperature of over 105 deg F.
That is a difference of 30 deg F, and is worth a change in power of about 3%.

Do you think anyone is going to compete long under those conditions when
their dial in can be totally blown out the window after they cross the
point that they can change it? If the cars running immediately ahead of
you have a problem that holds you at the line for more than 30 - 40
seconds, you might as well just drop out, you won't be able to run you
dial in on a bet.

How are you going to address cars the come from the factory with
external water spray systems on their intercoolers? Will they need to tear the
system out, or what sort of "proof of not being functional" is
acceptable?

Could you explain the reason behind this?

If there is a safety issue with these systems why did you not address
the problem rather than just blow away a few million dollars in investment
by the very folks your trying to draw into the sport ?

Larry

hotrod

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I was aware of the cool can rules.

My first car was a 54 Studebaker Champion with a 58 Chrysler 392 in it
Basically a street legal C-gas coupe. Vapor lock was a big issue for me.

The issue here, is a question of rules interpretation in that rule segment
and poor word choice in the rules. It also my concern that the NHRA is
unintentionally shooting themselves in the foot with the import crowd by
outlawing very common street modifications. These kids simply are not
going to go to the strip more than once if they get kicked out trying to
legally drag race in their normal day to day street configuration.

There are actually 2 interpretation issues here.

1) It is my position that intercooler spray systems are functional
equivalents to already legal techniques for controlling engine,
and intake temperatures Prior to staging. It serves the same function as
putting wet towels or ice bags on an intake manifold.

In your rule (broken apart for easy discussion):

1. -- The NHRA Rulebook states "Any method of artificially cooling or
heating fuel prohibited (i.e., cool cans, Freon, wet rags, ECT.) except
as noted in class requirements.

this segment has no impact on intercooler spray systems.



2. -- Cool cans, wet towels, ect. Are permitted in Super Stock, Stock,
Super Comp, Super Gas, Super Street, and E.T. classes.

This segment specifically enumerates commonly used techniques for controlling heat soak
prior to a run. If an intercooler spray system is a functional equivalent to these techniques
IT MUST ALSO BE LEGAL !!


3. -- Wet towels, rags, ice, ect. must be removed before vehicle leaves
staging area.

This segment specifically enumerates when these techniques can be used, ie
up until,the car leaves the staging area, and enters the burnout box area.
The last sentence of this segment involves a separate interpretation issue
which I will cover below.

Ambient-temperature air only; cooling or otherwise changing of the condition
of the intake air is prohibited.


4. -- "Spraying of the intake with any artificial spray or coolant
prohibited."

This segment if interpreted litterally could outlaw almost anything as it
is so nebulous and poorly defined. Just what is an "artificial spray or
coolent".
Everyone touts water as being "all natural", so what is an artificial
spray? CO2 is present in the air and is widely used as a fire
extinguishing agent and power source for shifters etc.

If you pour water on the intercooler, rather than spray it on, is it legal?
If you cool the intercooler with ice water running through tubing, is that
legal?
Is water an "artifical spray or coolant" while Nitrous Oxide which is
legal, is allowed to be injected into the intake and by doing drastically
alters the intake air conditions, both by substantial cooling and by
increasing the oxygen content.
I can legally add 150 hp with Nitrous at a total cost of around $1000
dollars to do it right, but I cannot legally prevent the loss of 15 - 20
hp due to heat soak of my intercooler with a $100 home built system or a
$500 dollar commercial system?

Ambient-temperature air only; cooling or otherwise changing of the condition
of the intake air is prohibited.


Two more issues with this statement and the above statement about
ambient-temperature air --

How do you define the intake? Is it everything from the air filter to the
intake valve?
Is it only the segment prior to the turbocharger or supercharger intake?
Or is it everything infront of the throttle body?
Is it the point the air enters the air filter or the first entry of the
the intake tract?

The reason I ask, is by definition any car running an intercooler is
drastically modifying the air condtions, as are nearly all
production autos that activily modify intake air temps to control emissions.

There is no objective test to prove or disprove compliance. If you set a
standard displacement, everyone knows where and how to measure the engines displacement.

Just exactly where and how do you PROVE that you are
delivering ambient temperature air to the engine. If you cannot prove it
under protest, it becomes a completely subjective call by a tech inspector..

Its not fair to a racer to put them in a place where they could drive
several hundred miles only to be told his car is illegal and can't
compete, or be protested after a win and have no way to challange a
subjective ruling with objective data.

As written, if you agressively interpret this rule segment and define the
"intake" as the point the air enters the air filter or the first entry of
the the intake tract, the only cars that are legal would be cars that draw
their intake air directly from an external intake like the old head light
cold air induction setups.

If you define it as the entire intake tract from the air filter, to the
intake valve, than all cars are illegal because they all drastically
modify the air temperature, pressure and humidity of the intake air by the
time it gets to the intake valve.
Sometimes intentionally by ram tuning the intake runners, sometimes by use
of heat risers and temperature control systems on the air filter intake,
sometimes by incidental effects due to heat gain as the air goes through
the intake tract.
All of them by use of a throttle plate to lower manifold air pressure.

Water injection substantially cools the intake air. By that agressive rule
interpretation, water injection cannot be legal.
Nor is blocking the heat riser, or throttle body heat circuit, or even
running without an air filter.
Certainly any car that runs a super charger or turbo charger causes huge
changes in air tempearture, first by heating from compression then by
cooling by the intercooler.


My whole point here is that the specification of "ambient-temperature air
only" as stated is a silly and unenforcable rule.
It is predicated on a "common sense and traditional" interpretation of
what is and is not legal. Unfortunately technology has moved on beyond
this regulation and you now have hundreds of cars that are in technical
violation of this rule, and now you have production vehicles that are
illegal by this rule right off the show room floor.

You also have a significant potential of selective and discriminatory
enforcement of such a broad rule against imports, while
ignoring the same after market systems on turbodiesel trucks, Ford
Lightnings, GM Syclones, Typhoons, SVT mustangs etc.

In your last email you made the following comment:


As for addressing the issue of cars from the manufacturer, I don't
believe there is one; as I am not aware of any vehicle coming from the
OEM with a system that sprays the intercooler.

Such cars have been available from the manufacture in other countries for
over 10 years, some have found their way to this side of the pond.

There are two cars currently on sale here in the U. S. that have factory
stock water spray intercooler setups.
The intercooler water spray system that comes standard on the 2004 EVO .
The intercooler water spray system that comes standard on the 2004 2005
Subaru STi.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article...mber=2&preview=
http://www.lancer-evolution.net/evo_v_engine.htm
http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-t...factfile-1.html
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0306_spdmit/


Chrysler corporation is also selling a factory performance upgrade package
for the SRT-4 that includes an intercooler water spray system.
http://www.mopar.com/street/tech.htm
http://www.mopar.com/srt_stage_2.htm

In addition you will soon have a factory production intercooler chilling
system that will be directly in violation of the Ambient-temperature air
ruling as it is currently interpreted.
(ie If cryo-spray systems are illegal than this system must also be illegal)

The newly patented Ford AC assisted intercooler design which was show
cased in 2003 should be on the show room floor soon.
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0436&P=1
http://www.fordforums.com/showthread.php?t=33177
http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/ford...ingconcept.html


It is a functional equivalent to the hundreds of CO2, and Nitrous
intercooler spray systems that are currently being manufactured and sold
mostly to the import racing crowd. These are being sold by such
companies as Holly (NOS), Nitrous Express and DEI.

Holly (NOS) Intercooler spray bar kit --
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLi...r_spray_bar.htm
part numbers 16034NOS, and 16035NOS,
http://www.holley.com/TechDocs/Inst...s/199R10330.pdf

http://www.nitrousexpress.com/Catal.../ntercooler.pdf
Nitrous Express intercooler spray kit --
http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/...products_id=716

DEI - intercooler spray controller switch --
http://www.designengineering.com/newsdetail.asp?id=25
DEI - CRY02 intercooler spray bar kit -
http://www.designengineering.com/pr....asp?m=sp&pid=5
DEI CRYO2 kit --- http://www.jscspeed.com/wrx/cooling/dei_cry02.htm

You also have a huge market share of private party knock off systems.
Being sold on E-bay and by small performance tuning shops.


As for your last two comments in your email:

I honestly don't believe your car would no longer be competitive if you
did not use a spray on the intercooler. What about the guy that has a
naturally aspirated car; what does he do when the ambient temperature
increases, he adjusts is dial accordingly. This is a bracket race with
dial-ins set by the racer, not first to the finish line wins.

The NA racer is dealing with local temp changes due to daily changes
in air temperature that occur at a rate of maybe 2 - 5 degees F/hour.
For the turbocharged driver that has a top mounted intercooler.
(ie sitting directly on top of the engine and frequently inches from a
1000 deg F turbocharger)
once he closes the hood and gets ready to run, the intercooler temperature
changes at a rate of 2-10 deg F per min.
(this is not an estimate, this is the result of 3 years of monitoring my
intercooler case temperature with an electronic thermometer) My electonic
themometer updates the display every 2 seconds, I have seen the temperture
change by a degree or more on each update cycle. Thats a temperature
change rate of 30 degrees/minute.

That means that in the time it takes to move from the final point to
change your dial in, to the starting line,your intake air temp can easily
change by more than 40 degrees if there are any delays due to break downs
etc.
I have personally seen my intercooler case go from 54 deg F to 105 deg
during this sort of delay.


In your closing you made the following comment.

In the many races I have attended, I have never seen anyone use any
type of spray on the intercooler, or manifold as the vehicle went down
the track; or in the staging lanes. As this would be prohibited by the
NHRA Rulebook. Therefore I don't think it will have the ill effect on
our sport compact racers you seem to think it will.

I respectfully submit that if you've watched any import races, especially
at a test and tune night, you've seen several and never knew it.
If you go on the web and look carefully at pictures of average daily
driver imports you will see quite a few with the spray loops or
intercooler water spray systems.

Many tracks don't even look for them,as long as your not dropping water on
the track. I've had water spray setups on my car several times, with the
spray nozzles in plain view and never had anyone even ask about them. The
issue here may be that during local racing action, no one pays any
attention, but then someone decides to come to a major event and suddenly
he can't run, even though for years he has run a similar system even at
the same track.

Regards --- thanks for the discussion

Larry

hotrod

Well I did a little research with Goggle and came up with these 2 pages.

http://www.nhra.com/2004/sportsman/n...ly/070602.html

http://www.nhra.com/revisions/rules.html

Looks like turbocharged cars weren't even on the radar when this change was put in. They were intending to prevent folks from cooling intake manifolds with spray cans of Freon type freeze sprays.

Larry

hotrod

Here's the announcement on rule updates on the sport compact side.

http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2004...er/120801.html

On the water air intercooler rule, the new update just came out and it apparently only applys to the sport RWD/AWD class and not the E.T. class

They also bumped up the minimum weights in Sport RWD/AWD for the AWD cars. I'm now too light to run in that class and I haven't even made the modifications I intended to make this winter.

They increased the weight split between 2wd and 4wd, cars.
AWD 2 power adder weight is increased by 250# and the single power adder weight by 150#.

A RWD car with 1 or 2 power adders now has a 400 lb weight advantage over the AWD car, instead of running on the same weight limit.

Keep in mind at 11:49 and quicker you only need a roll bar not a full cage.


Larry

itwrx

iTrader: (1)

Interesting post larry. good read

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

Larry, sort of-semi-pseudo OT, I can never find the proper specs for an above 11.49 rollbar. Doubt I'll ever need it but from what I'm finding, bolt-in is ok and it has to have door bars. Also, obviously the ability to strap a harness in, too. Is all of that correct?