http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...._code=06811374

Now that's just wacky. Although I have to admit, Saab does have some pretty good designers.

-E2

 

What a load, GM will take the best, slap a saab sticker on and dilute the whole subaru line. Quality, tradition, and independence is being sold out to GM. What is Fuji thinking?

 

Unlikely, GM did the badge engineering thing in the 80's and 90's. They've learned their lesson. You'll probably see a WRX chassis with a Saab designed body and interior. Saab my retune the suspension to fit their image a bit, but the engine will probably stay the same.

What was Fuji thinking? My guess is of the money that a 20% purchace of Scoobie would bring. Don't be suprised if Subaru is an almost wholly owned subsidary by the end of the decade.

-E2

 

its good for subaru.

 

I hope you don't mean GM taking over Subaru/Fuji is good...If you could see how things are done over here by the big 3, you would cry and write all kinds of letters to Fuji begging them to buy out their stock from GM.

I think Subaru (along with many other Japanese companies) are heading in the right direction: small rocketships that don't clog up our atmosphere with pollution. The big 3 have not had an original thought in their head for over 30 years.

Here's what would happen if GM were to buy out Subaru:
1) They would turn all of the wagons into SUVs with V8 engines, since this is all they know how to make.

2) The WRX would be turned into a lethargic compact like the Metro so that they could level out the CAFE standards of the trucks. It would still produce more than twice the pollution of any Honda ever made.

3) The AWD system would be scavenged for their light trucks. After significantly cheapening them up and then using them in a application not suited for a lightweight drivetrain, it would become notoriously known for failures. GM would scrap the AWD systems cause nobody wants to buy them anymore.

4) After the truck market falls through, GM would scramble to retain their profits, thereby cancelling all future development projects and anything not related to "core business". They sell the Subaru division for pennies and leave the company with enormous debt.

5) Nobody is willing to buy a company with so much debt so Subaru is forced to close its doors forever. The End.

Sound harsh? Just look at what they did to Oldsmobile. So write to Subaru and convince them it would be a "bad thing". Honda and Toyota have repeatedly told GM to go flunk themselves, I think Subaru should too!

BTW: I hate Saabs almost as much as I hate Mustangs. They're as ugly as they are useless.

 

GM Owns Saab, and GM also owns a 20% share in Fuji Heavy Ind. There's already some component sharing on the drawing board, a good example is the Pontiac Solstice concept from last years Detroit show. It used a WRX Steering rack and a WRX rear suspension.

Archman, you don't know what you're talking about.

1) GM isn't going to turn the Scooby wagons into SUVs. GM already has plenty of SUVs, along with Car based SUVs and Crossover vehicles coming, there's no need to make Subaru branded ones.

2) GM isn't going to turn a WRX into a lethargic compact in order to effect it's CAFE rating. GM already owns Daewoo. If they want to sell a bunch of subcompacts, they'll rebadge Daewoos. They're cheaper to make, and since they're lighter they'll also have better gas mileage.

3) GM isn't going to put a Subaru AWD system in their light trucks. This is for 2 reasons: 1- GM already has a good one that's better suited to light trucks, and is cheaper to make; and 2- The Scooby AWD system isn't really that suited for off road use.

4) People have been predicting the light truck market's demise since 1995. It's not going to happen. The Ford F150 and Chevy 1500 have been the number 1 and 2 best selling vehicles in America for the last 5 years. (Not cars, vehicles. The Accord and Camry trade the car distinction back and forth). Gas prices are this high for 2 reasons at the moment, 1) the obvious: Iraq. 2) The strike in Venezuela (scuse my spelling) that shut down production for 60 days. Once the Iraq issue passes, and once Venezuela is fully ramped back up, gas prices will fall again. Combine this with advances in fuel efficiency and you can pretty much guarantee a future for the SUV.

5) GM isn't going to sell Subaru if things get tough. GM is the third largest corporation in the world. It's annual revenue is something like 178 BILLION. Frankly unloading Subaru if things get ugly won't be worth the effort to them.

6) That's not what happened to Oldsmobile. Olds wasn't a separate company, it was just a brand. When GM decided to kill of Olds, they didn't close any plants or lay off any workers. All they did was call up their factories and say (Hey, stop making Aleros and make more Grand Ams instead - given that they're the same car.) All GM did was stop selling cars with Olds badges and styling. The same chassis, engine, transmissions, interiors, etc.. are still being used elsewhere.

I agree the GM made a great deal of mistakes in the past, in the car segment. But they're turning things around. The biggest sign of this was them bringing Bob Lutz out of retirement and putting him in place as their #2 guy. Bob Lutz is a hardcore car guy, and he's been tasked with revamping GM's culture to make it more design focused. You can already see its effects in the CTS and the GTO. Give it more time, and I guarantee that GM will be producing some sweet *** enthusiast rides. If you want an example of what GM can do in the car space, look at GMs German subsidiary Opel. The new Vectra kicks ***.

Oh, and the Saab 900/9-3 5 doors and wagons we're some of the most practical cars made. Before you dump on Saab, go drive one. They're not that bad. The higher hp turbo engines are a bit peaky to drive, but it's still a fun romp. Plus the interiors are light years ahead of anything Subaru can put out. (I'm still buying my Sti though.)

 

AEGISMONKEY,

I don't mean to get into a pissing contest here, but I believe that I do know what I'm talking about. I live here. I may have embellished things, but it was to drive my point home. I do not see any benefit in Subaru being owned by GM. BTW: I own a GM car and by far they are the best domestic auto company. However, don't be fooled by their cool ads...they are a business and they play hardball. You don't get to be #1 without doing so.

I certainly hope that B. Lutz can turn things around, but I think not even he is capable of stopping "the profit machine". They make a profit on trucks. They lose money with EVERY small car sold. PERIOD.

Don't doubt for one second that GM would buy up Subaru and kick it to the curb when it's outlived its usefulness. That's business, plain and simple. As for Oldmobile: you are mistaken. Oldsmobile WAS a separate company at one point. And in the end, when it outlived it usefulness, GM kicked it to the curb. I personally liked the Alero and Intrigue. Not to mention my brother's '69 Olds 442. I'm just a tad bitter.

Finally, I'm quite sure the only reason GM is looking at Subaru is for the AWD and it is not because they already have a better system. Subaru and Audi make the best AWDs. Period. It makes perfect business sense for GM to buy into that technology because they don't have it. I'm sorry, I had to work on the Bravada with AWD...they pop more driveshafts than anything else I've seen. Obviously there is some work to do here.

I don't mean to start a war here, but I'm tired of the excuses coming from this part of the world. That's why I currently own a Honda and will soon own a Subaru. I don't mean to **** you off, but please don't tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about.

BTW: Maybe I will go out and flog the crap out of a Saab. I'll still have issues with them...maybe it's because of the people that drive them...

 

Sorry about that, dude. I get worked up over this stuff easily. I moved here so that I could be closer to the auto-scene, but I've been dissapointed with what I've found. I've been fired up about cars all of my life, rebuilt my first Chevy 350 at 16, and just love cruising in my brother's 442. It just irks me to no end to see the big 3 farming out all the car work overseas. Case in point, the J-body will be dying soon and will be resurrected as an Opel. I just have a hard time believing that Opel can produce better cars than the engineers at GM can.

The U.S. makes the best damn planes in the world, so I'm confident that we have the intelligence and know-how to make the best damn cars in the world. The difference between the auto sector and aerospace is money. Same American engineers and assembly workers, but two vastly different results. I know my buddies at GM, DaimlerChrysler, and Ford can build far better cars than the Germans or Japanese...it's just killing me to see this talent go wasted like this. We are the ones who come up with all the ground-breaking ideas...the Japanese and Germans simply just implement them. (Just look at the old autoshow footage of the 50's and 60's and you will see all kinds of gadgets on American cars that Merdedes and BMW now tout around as being "revolutionary"). We are the technological leaders, but we just can't act like it because of business politics. Very sad.

I wish I could tell you about the things going on around here. I think you all would see just how bad things have gotten. We really gotta stop this, and quick.

Peace.