Stevesdub

iTrader: (1)

1. I've read about double clutching and rev-matching on downshifting. What ive seen says for a 3-2 downshift, for example, you pedal in, put it in neutral, pedal out, give it throttle, pedal in, shift into 2nd, then pedal out. Now the way I usually do it is pedal in, shift into second, throttle, pedal out. It's much faster, but is it doing damage to the tranny? I can't really see what the difference is between revving it in neutral with pedal out is, compared to disengaging the clutch in 2nd.

2. Do manual trannys in england or other right hand drive countries have the exact same shift pattern, or is it mirrored so that 1st gear is still closest to the driver?

Thanks, Steve

VRT MBasile

iTrader: (17)

I dont know about #1 because I have a 4EAT
#2...same shift patern with RHD and LHD

sigma pi

iTrader: (6)

^^ He is correct

and

your are just making your synchros work a little harder and there is plenty of time to do the down shift while braking

Wingless Wonder

iTrader: (7)

Moved from Impreza Transmission forum. It's a good topic on driving habits that has been discussed before but is not Subaru or Impreza-specific. The same applies to the question about the shift pattern in RHD and LHD vehicles.

Double-clutching is ultimately easier on the synchronizers even in a fully-synchronized (forward gears, only) transmission but few people do it. I usually rev match when I want to downshift when moving, which is still an aid to smooth shifting.

There's one situation where knowing how to double-clutch can be helpful and that is when the clutch cannot be disengaged due to a broken component like a cable, hydraulic clutch mechanism, or throwout bearing. In this event, you can double-clutch if you are proficient at rev-matching and still be able to downshift without using the clutch pedal. Upshifting is not as difficult as downshifting when the clutch cannot be disengaged as long as you momentarily lift off the throttle. Obviously, this technique has no relevance to a worn out clutch - that's something else entirely.

--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush

Sinister Subaru

When I'm slowing down for a corner or something, I just blip the throttle to rev match. I don't double-clutch. I just give the throttle a good stab, downshift, and then let out on the clutch slowly. I've never had a problem.

Stevesdub

iTrader: (1)

yeah that sounds like the exact same thing i'm doing. This way seems much smoother then double clutching. I'm sure with some practice i'll be able to do it the recommended way.

fenderstrat066

When driving my fathers 69 MG MGB GT You must double clutch from 2 to 1st. Luckily for me i was able to learn the proper way to double clutch. I cant see how what sinister and steve are doing could be bad yet its not helping your synchro's really.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

Revving the engine with the clutch out can hurt your throwout bearing I think. Also, it doesn't match part of the tranny to the speed you want...just the engine and the part of the tranny attatched to the drive shaft (because it's attatched to the wheels). There's a 'middle' part of the tranny that only spins when the clutch is not pushed in. That's why reving with the clutch pushed in can damage the synchros (they synchros have to work harder to match the speeds of the 'middle' section and the part of the tranny attatched to the wheels.


I can't explain it very well, but it's a lot easier on a few parts of the car if you rev in neutral insted of while the clutch is out.

5LTRETR

you want to rev match with the clutch pedal in and the tranny in the desired gear i.e on a 3-2 shift youd want to be in 2'nd clutch in heal toe rev match and go. rev matching is more to not upset the balance on the car while turning.

flyguy3663

Always rev match.. even though in newer cars its not as necessary you should always try to rev match whenever possible.. why cause unneeded stress and wear on ur clutch and flywheel?

this is especially important when u are dropping gear to accelerate.. like say I wanna go from 6th to 4th.. if im going 70 in 6th which is about.. 2,700 rpm i'd guesstimate, u gotta realize that in 4th ur gonna be up there at like 5,000 or a little more.. so instead of jolting the tranny it is better to push in clutch, blip throttle to about 5 and let the clutch out while still maintaining the throttle.. this takes some practice but its actually pretty easy and will help tons in the end. as always, never just dump the clutch with no throttle because that clutch and flywheel will meet and hook up but it wont feel good at all.. and over time ur abusing the clutch and internals.. so clutch in, shift, blip and hold, and let clutch out when at desired rpm's for lower gear.. this takes time but i can easily do this in under a second.. and smoothly too..

also i ALWAYS engine brake.. like always.. call me conservative but if i know a stop is approaching or a slow section i will use engine to slow down car. the trick is almost exactly like dropping gear to accelerate except u will not be going from 6 to 5 or 5 to 3 unless u are slowing down very rapidly.. its more practical and safer to just drop down 6,5,4 etc.. down to 2nd usually.. this is safe because it allows u to be in correct gear if u need to accelerate to avoid accident or if traffic picks back up.

i actually feel the car slows a lot better when in gear vs neutral. in neutral its all brakes and that sucks up ur brake pads pretty quickly too.. if ur in gear and let off the gas the manual transmission will naturally slow.. because unlike an automatic, u are controlling the fuel injection and rpms.. this is why manual trannies get better gas mileage..

once uv mastered downshifting and engine braking it will come naturally. im sure everyone who has driven their sti has done some ahem "experimenting" with dropping gears and taking off.. in a safe controlled environment of course haha.. but yea, definitely match revs whenever possible.. and always be aware of ur surroundings and those crazy *** drivers around u trying to say they beat an STi on the road....

check out standardshift.com for more advanced techs.. and also better understanding.. i swear some of those guys are scientists or somthing.. but it made me a lot better driver

monsterboy

Double declutching is always smoother but more difficult to accomplish correctly. Just try to match your rpm to what it will be after selecting a lower gear and then engage the clutch and if you want to try double declutching later, why not. Automatics transmit power through fluid, power loss=mileage loss. Remember the ideal function of downshifting is acceleration, not slowing your car down. Brake pads cheaper than cv joints trannies etc. Just my dos cents.

meilers

The reason to engine brake is to avoid rolling in neutral, not to slow the car. If you do it right, you won't put stress on the driveline. Rolling while in neutral is very unwise, you never know when you might need a little power .

monsterboy

Not neutral, but whatever gear you were driving in. All conditions are different, on an STI the gears are plenty short, and maybe rolling up to a stop sign doesn't always mean dropping to 2nd from 3rd etc. Maybe for practice? You're already going pretty slow. Even when you are attacking some twisty mountain road, you should be downshifting to the next gear in preparation for the stomping of the gas, not to slow down. It happens, but in the spirit of good habits one should try to minimize downshifting as a method for slowing down because each downshift opens a window of incident.

GasPipe DreameR

iTrader: (1)

why not use the brakes to slow down. that way you 4 pay for pads instead on a new tranny like me