No more Celica or MR2 after 2005...
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Originally Posted by WRX-pilot
Um, it seems like their similarities are having similar output power, thats about it.
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Originally Posted by shaft73
Hey we can both be right. They probably moved the celica/TC to the scion line to keep that with predominately (spl?) the younger crowd. All in all, the scion tc has all the same characteristics of a celica, just newer.
Originally Posted by EsoterikWRX
It doesn't make sense to build a $30-40K sports car (the next generation Supra, whatever its name may be,) and then not sell less expensive sporty cars.
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Originally Posted by WRX-pilot
...I agree, I guess that can open up the idea that maybe they will add more sport cars to the Scion line including maybe a car comparable to the MR2/MRS and then put a new Supra in the line. Only time will tell.
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True, but with the TC coming the Scion Lineup is becoming more pricey. How do we know its not going to steadily rise from there? Sell some cheap cars to get a foothold on the market and work their way up. Look at Subaru, just a few years ago the WRX was the fastest and second most priciest vehicle in the entire line up. Now they are trying to push the brand name with some fancier looking cars like the new GT. I am sure Subaru will steadily increase their high end cars. Same with Scion, doesn't mean it will happen but its a thought. The Toyota lineup is going to be pretty much bare of cars that would appeal to gen Y, we are now left with the Camry, Solara, Avalon and the flashiest being the Matrix and Prius. Sure the Supra will always fit right with Toyota but now it will be standing next to cars that are sedans looking for a nice family to drive them home... I would say the remaining Toyotas are more like Lexus' than Scions. I see where you are going with this because as of right now the Scions are only known as 108hp econoboxes. Things might change before the Supra comes out. Only time will tell.
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I guess that may be possible, but why have 2 or 3 brands with the same demographic? The new IS is supposed to offer more varients - coupe, droptop, sedan & maybe still the Sportcross - so Toyota will have 3 sporty coupes w/in $10-12K of each other. Not that they wouldn't do it, but it doesn't make sense to me. All these brand managers talk about 'brand equity' & such (BMW is teetering on whether to call all its 2 dr models even numbers, ie 645, & Z4, but because "M3" has so much 'brand equity' they are not so sure) so why kill a successful model of 25-30yrs? But then I don't drive a Toyota, so what do I know?
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Toyota has constantly done this with it's performance cars. It releases them to much praise, then seems to forget that they're a part of the line-up until interest has dwindled beyond repair and they have to pull the plug (i.e. Supra, 2nd gen MR2). So now they will be producing Camrys for the rental market, the feaux 4x4's, and trying too hard with the Scion.
I get the feeling that they're stretched too thin. Too many SUV's. Too much concentration on making a car for "everyman" (Camry). Why can't a popular car have a performance edge? The Scion market wants cheap style. If you can call the Xb stylish... I just see that market as wannabe tuners. Guys who buy one in some silly color and slap ugly chrome wheels and some graphics and maybe a killer system (yo) and go from there. They are'nt real performance car buyers. Toyota should'nt send Scion down that road.
They should revive the emotion of the old ST165 and ST202 Celicas that had such rally success and are true enthusiast *drivers* cars. Toyota has no drivers cars, they all look goofy with too-small wheels, have soul-less engines (excepting the celica and MR) and gushy chassis. C'mon Toyota. You have such a tremendous market that you're completely missing out on! Bank on your F1 and IRL experience!!
Tundra Trucks are nice, but not everybody wants one!
I get the feeling that they're stretched too thin. Too many SUV's. Too much concentration on making a car for "everyman" (Camry). Why can't a popular car have a performance edge? The Scion market wants cheap style. If you can call the Xb stylish... I just see that market as wannabe tuners. Guys who buy one in some silly color and slap ugly chrome wheels and some graphics and maybe a killer system (yo) and go from there. They are'nt real performance car buyers. Toyota should'nt send Scion down that road.
They should revive the emotion of the old ST165 and ST202 Celicas that had such rally success and are true enthusiast *drivers* cars. Toyota has no drivers cars, they all look goofy with too-small wheels, have soul-less engines (excepting the celica and MR) and gushy chassis. C'mon Toyota. You have such a tremendous market that you're completely missing out on! Bank on your F1 and IRL experience!!
Tundra Trucks are nice, but not everybody wants one!
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Not to point out something a little too obvious, but remember that Toyota has Lexus, their luxury line, and in that line there are actually three sport compacts with reasonable prices and features comparable to the Celica. The IS is available in several configurations and is just as quick as the Celica. The MR2 was clearly designed to be a competitor to the Miata (the two cars side-by-side are nearly identical in size) and perhaps Toyota just concedes that Mazda won that one.
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Originally Posted by meilers
The MR2 was clearly designed to be a competitor to the Miata (the two cars side-by-side are nearly identical in size) and perhaps Toyota just concedes that Mazda won that one.
MR2 is ~250 pounds lighter but 3 grand more expensive. The Mazda also has a little more than twice the storage space and has more aftermarket support. I think Toyota would have sold more if they put the 180 hp, GT-S version of the 1.8 in that little thing it would be about the same price as the MazdaSpeed turbo Miata...
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Not to be inflamitory here, but the looks of the MR2 spyder did'nt carry it too far. It was not very cohesive styling with those giagantic tail lights and "frogeye" head lights. And there was nothing in the middle that really pulled the styling together. It was kinda clumsy in comparison to the more svelt Miata. The kind of people who buy a weekend toy kind of a car are very style consious. That the MR had such great handling did'nt do much to overcome people's apprehension about the styling. And even though I kinda like the Celica, I think the same can be said for that too.
To MEILERS: Which three cars in the Lexus lineup are sport compacts?? Am I having a brain fart here? The IS300 is not in Celica territory, more like BMW 3 series... I'm going to Lexus.com to make sure I hav'nt missed out on Lexus' sporty cars and to ensure I'm not going nutty!
To MEILERS: Which three cars in the Lexus lineup are sport compacts?? Am I having a brain fart here? The IS300 is not in Celica territory, more like BMW 3 series... I'm going to Lexus.com to make sure I hav'nt missed out on Lexus' sporty cars and to ensure I'm not going nutty!
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Originally Posted by Barchetta212
Not to be inflamitory here, but the looks of the MR2 spyder did'nt carry it too far. It was not very cohesive styling with those giagantic tail lights and "frogeye" head lights. And there was nothing in the middle that really pulled the styling together. It was kinda clumsy in comparison to the more svelt Miata.
I think your opinion of the cars style is definitely more prevalent, and may very well have played into the poor sales of Toyota's latest mid ship runabout.
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Originally Posted by Barchetta212
To MEILERS: Which three cars in the Lexus lineup are sport compacts?? Am I having a brain fart here? The IS300 is not in Celica territory, more like BMW 3 series... I'm going to Lexus.com to make sure I hav'nt missed out on Lexus' sporty cars and to ensure I'm not going nutty!
1.8l 180hp 4-cylinder
http://www.toyota.com/celica/models.html
Lexus IS300 5-speed: $28,950 MSRP
3.0l 215hp inline 6
http://www.lexus.com/models/is/5speed.html
It is a $4000 difference, true, but you get 35hp more and 1.2l more displacement, not to mention 17" wheels and a Lexus-class interior. In any case, dealers and factories in general make more money on luxury lines than they do on the budget models, so if you had to trim your line, it would be obvious where to cut.
Now, as for the Scion series -- these are the Suzuki Samurai's of their age, trust me. Toyota will deeply regret ever introducting them.
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Gotcha. I must have read your earlier thread wrong. Sorry!
I do see your point about the IS being not too far off a loaded Celica. If I was in the market and had that financial flexibility, I would surely go Lexus. It's so much better looking and more usable. With better residual value as well.
I think you're right about the Scion being the Suzuki Samauri's of today. Cheap and possibly fun, but not very lasting.
They are popular for the "right now" generation that is looking for a cheap car. What happens when those folks grow out of a Scion? With no Celica or decent performance model to turn to in Toyota, they are going elsewhere. And Scion is going to have to continually change their image to keep up with each new generation of young buyers' tastes.
I do see your point about the IS being not too far off a loaded Celica. If I was in the market and had that financial flexibility, I would surely go Lexus. It's so much better looking and more usable. With better residual value as well.
I think you're right about the Scion being the Suzuki Samauri's of today. Cheap and possibly fun, but not very lasting.
They are popular for the "right now" generation that is looking for a cheap car. What happens when those folks grow out of a Scion? With no Celica or decent performance model to turn to in Toyota, they are going elsewhere. And Scion is going to have to continually change their image to keep up with each new generation of young buyers' tastes.