brucelee

iTrader: (6)

He is no where NEAR pound for pound best fighter, not even CLOSE! Fedor is, just look at his record, his only loss was a technicality where he got a cut above his eye from an illegal elbow and was bleeding too much so the doc called the fight.


BJ is a great fighter, more flexible then any other fighter EVER, GSP was just that much better that he made BJ look weak, but he isn't, BJ would have taken out soooo many fighters that night, but GSP made him look very weak.

brucelee

iTrader: (6)

Throwing in the towel like that is much worse then getting knocked out or losing by decision. It shows that he wasn't even able to go another round with GSP because he was either afraid of getting knocked out, or he just physically could not go another round because GSP was raking him so badly. Everyone I watched it with agreed. I'd rather go in the ring like a man and try to take it to the end for a decision at least, the fact that he didn't shows you something, thats for sure.

TurnWRX

iTrader: (3)

nobody is saying that he isn't a world class fighter. He is a great and brilliant fighter, but he is NOT the best pound for pound fighter in the world as some others have stated in this thread. His stamina and lack of conditioning keeps him from being the best pound for pound fighter. If anybody's going to argue that his lack of conditioning is overrated, then he doesn't know how to manage his own energy to go the distance of a full 5 rounds against an opponent who is equal or better than he is in terms of athleticism and skill.

stylin525

iTrader: (2)

All this talk... Bj just got outclassed by a stronger competitor "that night". If anyone has any fighting back round here, you gotta respect every fighter that goes into the ring. SO let's not argue who is and who isn;t the pound for pound best fighter. WHo cares. Whoever steps into that ring is savage!

thaSicness

iTrader: (1)

OK then.

Tell me in your own words what I dont know about mma or the ufc?

Do I not know mma or the ufc because the fighter you like lost?

Or the fact I said hes not a amazing fighter, that he's just good?

I never said he wasn't a good fighter or that he didn't have any background in mma. All I know is that amazing fighters don't throw in towels. And that I DO KNOW about mma.

So tell me what I dont know

thaSicness

iTrader: (1)

Very true.

You will see guys duke it out in non title fights until they both cant stand or even throw a punch.

Spoolin415

iTrader: (4)

The guard he was playing, or trying to play, is/was defeated by the vaseline.
Would the fight have ended differently, maybe, but probably not. WW is not BJ's weight classm hes just too small and slow at that weight.

If you knew BJ's history, what he accomplished in the time frame he did with such lax training you'd say hes a little better than good.

And I totally disagree with him not being at least in contention for the title of 'best pound for pound'. I can't think of anyone else who does EVERYTHING, overall as good as BJ. He smashed through the LW division as evidence of this. When he is on, he is untouchable.

He looked like crap in this fight, not denying that, but I think it had a lot to do with a size difference and him gaining the weight to fight at WW. It killed a lot of his explosiveness and speed which is a huge factor in a fight.

thaSicness

iTrader: (1)

Without a doubt BJ penn has alot of history and "accomplishes". That still doesn't change my opinion that he's a good fighter. Just because he is a fan favorite doesn't make him an amazing fighter. There are plenty of amazing fighters who dont get nearly as much credit. UFC is a drama show now. They focus on fighters with big hypes and loud mouths and fan favorites rather than amazing fighters.

Irrational X

iTrader: (1)

called it. BJ got stomped. he needs to go down a weight class.

OneManArmy

iTrader: (7)

Those other "amazing" fighters that don't get nearly the credit didn't earn it. You clearly have no idea WTF you're talking about.

And not because I'm a BJ freak. I actually like GSP quite a bit as well. Fact of the matter is that anyone with a brain knows 170 is not BJ's weight class. Look at the body types. GSP is RIPPED at 170. BJ has to put a bunch of weight on and he can't do that with fit muscle that quickly and be able to get it safely off for 155 fights. He's a 155 fighter period.

I didn't get to watch to fight so I have no input on the fight. I will say that vasoline is a dirty trick in MMA fighting and the KNEW it would effect the fight. They are absolutely right that that corner man should not be allowed in any MMA fight again. GSP should bare some blame as he knew what was happening and HAD to know it would give him a HUGE help against a judo/JJ fighter. No grip No judo. No grip No JJ. Depending on how long it was going on I'd say it probably had a HUGE effect on the fight and is not an "excuse"

You clearly haven't practiced Judo or JJ at any level if you think it didn't effect the fight and aren't aware of BJ's GREAT skills and past. His belts didn't come in a cereal box. He got them in a time it was MUCH harder to get them. Guys these days often carry a black belts but got them at inferior camps which often give them up much quicker and easier.

BJ earned his stripes all over the world competing at specialized world class events. If your definition of a great fighter is someone that wins in the UFC then you're missing out on a lot of "great" fighters.

thaSicness

iTrader: (1)

Actually I do know what I am talking about. Clearly you all know how to ***** and moan when your "AMAZING" fighter who has strived for so much throws a towel like a little *****. Just about ever great fighter has some type of background other than the ufc, and every one of them has won some type of world class event. Stop your crying please and get over it. In my opinion Fedor, Silva and Couture are amazing. Amazing fighters dont quit fights like the prodigy *****.

And "clearly" everybody knows a true champion is versatile in weight class. BJ has always been a fatass so whats his excuse this time.

Speaking of amazing fighters.. how about Couture as I mentioned? In comparison BJ penn didnt accomplish **** compared to this guy.

brucelee

iTrader: (6)

Come on guys, lets all be adults here.


BJ is a great fighter, no questions there. He has done some pretty damn amazing things in his career. He's naturally a great fighter and he takes advantage of that, however, he relies far too much on his natural ability and not enough on training, etc. If he trained as hard as GSP and other fighters like him, he'd be on a whole new level and might be in possession of a second championship belt right now, but he ruined his chances of winning by not taking his fighting seriously enough which is sad, I'd love to see BJ at 100% instead of 85%... But even at 85%, BJ still kicks the crap out of most other fighters, he was just overwhelmed by GSP. GSP is naturally bigger and stronger, and he trained harder then anyone I have seen in a looong time... So when BJ tried to gain weight so that he could fight in that class it just didn't work out for him and you saw the result. *shrugs*

BJ fighting others in his class when he's in good BJ training/shape, BJ is a very dangerous fighter. That being said, BJ shouldn't have tried barking up a tree he wasn't ready for.

Choku Dori

iTrader: (2)

Give this man a biscuit, he totally hit the nail on the head!

zotling

iTrader: (1)

Constantly referring to him as "the prodidy *****" exposes a little bias here.

Throwing in the towel under the right circumstances is the intelligent thing to do instead of risking serious injury. Often it is actually the cornermen who decide to stop the fight and not the fighter (it's unclear in bj's case). In 2003, Chuck Liddell's corner threw in the towel against his fight with rampage. You had might as well argue that anybody who taps is a *bleep* because they are giving up in order to prevent serious injury.

zotling

iTrader: (1)

There were a couple people who suggested he is only "good" which I think is a pretty severe understatement. But yes, most people acknowledged his ability.

As far as the p4p debate, in my honest opinion, I don't think he is THE p4p best. That would probably belong to Fedor or Anderson Silva. However, BJ definitely belongs somewhere in the relevant discussion of p4p best fighters. Yes he is easily outdone by the accomplishments of Fedor and Silva so there is a large gap between them and BJ. But if you look at any discussion or article attempting to rank p4p fighters I can almost guarantee that you'll see BJ's name on the list. This doesn't happen on accident.