What do you guys think of the Oakland-BART cop shooting?
07-03-2010, 06:20 AM
#46
I work at Highland fixing broken faces and I have a feeling business is about to start picking up (our other busy day is usually Raider home games). My question is, does anyone know the safest route from from Alameda to Highland Hospital? I'm definitely packing
07-03-2010, 09:42 AM
#47
Registered User
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Union City, CA
Posts: 1,056
Car Info: MY05RS, MY70914, and MY10VT1300CS
1)not a victim, he was a criminal
2)he was a POS the world is better off without him, the bart cop did us all a favor and saved us tax money
sorry dude, but your way off base on this one, the model tazer they carry feels just like the grip of a sig, the trigger is damn close, I can see someone grabbing the wrong one when not looking down and being in a high stress moment.
2)he was a POS the world is better off without him, the bart cop did us all a favor and saved us tax money
sorry dude, but your way off base on this one, the model tazer they carry feels just like the grip of a sig, the trigger is damn close, I can see someone grabbing the wrong one when not looking down and being in a high stress moment.
And the Tazer bart cops have been using has a pistol grip, like the sig. but it have a giant yellow body with two lightning bolts on the side of it. But lets go through this. He says it was an accident. Cops dont carry their side arms cocked in the holsters. Unless your working in San pablo (like my cosuin Ryan), there is no reason to. So this *** had to unholster the weapon, aim it at the dudes back, **** (pull the hammer back on the) THE GODDAMN FIREARM (which you don't have to do in the same way with the tazer), and then pull the trigger. he knew what he was doing in the moment. If he wanted to subdue the guy with a bullet, he could have put it in his knee.
The ****er shot him in the back, he needs to pay for it. anything less then Voulentary Manslaughter is a ****ing joke.
even if he does do time, they'll keep him in a secured cell, away from all the other riff-raff. so in the end it really doesn't matter. PD's look out for their own, not the public. Which is why I have no respect for cops.
07-03-2010, 11:05 AM
#48
Yeah, You've Probably Never Heard Of Me.
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: in a glass case of emotion.
Posts: 17,962
Car Info: 345/30/19s
Either way, even if he only serves a year, thats a hell of a long time when your a white cop that shot a black guy in the back, just sayin
07-03-2010, 11:08 AM
#49
Hey, I'm saying anything about Grant, I don't care who he was because it didn't matter at that very point... The officer didn't know any of that when shooting him (or maybe he did, doesn;t matter either way because he was face down on the ground and in cuffs, there was no need to tase him).
Overbear,
Ive also used both and it's not easy to confuse the two... The triggers are so different, the grip is different, the grip angle is different, the girth is different, the color is different, and last but not least, it's holstered in a totally different spot than the pistol holster. Officers spend a lot of time with their guns and he should have known damn well that he wasnt not holding his primary pistol.
I can grab any one of my guns and tell you the make and model without looking at it... If I grabbed anything but my Glock 21 (primary pistol that Ive practiced with more than any other gun) I'd know in a SECOND, especially if I grabbed something like a taser, for all the reasons stated above as well as noting how different they feel in terms of weight balance.
I usually always take sides with the police, but in this case I have to side with the victim because that cop was a POS.
Overbear,
Ive also used both and it's not easy to confuse the two... The triggers are so different, the grip is different, the grip angle is different, the girth is different, the color is different, and last but not least, it's holstered in a totally different spot than the pistol holster. Officers spend a lot of time with their guns and he should have known damn well that he wasnt not holding his primary pistol.
I can grab any one of my guns and tell you the make and model without looking at it... If I grabbed anything but my Glock 21 (primary pistol that Ive practiced with more than any other gun) I'd know in a SECOND, especially if I grabbed something like a taser, for all the reasons stated above as well as noting how different they feel in terms of weight balance.
I usually always take sides with the police, but in this case I have to side with the victim because that cop was a POS.
If Grant got killed by a black cop we would not have this HUGE over the top case in LA, the cop would be out for work on leave for a month and be back to work like nothing happened. For no reason Grant should have been killed over this but it over the top and bull crap the way the people of Oakland are going to throw rock into subway, light cars on fide, and over tip cop cars. Just leads for more reason for all cops to shoot first and ask questions later.
Last edited by 04caliwrx; 07-03-2010 at 11:19 AM.
07-03-2010, 11:18 AM
#50
Registered User
iTrader: (23)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South SF
Posts: 2,674
Car Info: 97' Dodge Cummins and an RSTI thingie
In my opinion, neither party was right. The officer clearly needs to get punished for going overboard, in the heat of the moment, things get crazy, but you should be able to keep your cool, or find anotherjob. Was the subject a saint? No. Did he deserve to die? No. Was he resisting and being violent and need to have been brought down with a tazer to facilitate arrest? Yes. I'm sure it wasn't premeditated or conscious, I think involuntary man slaughter is appropriate.
I think that its so freaking stupid that riots are a very real possibility, all it will do is **** off the police and allow them to justify a response, hurt innocent people and businesses. So in other words, nothing positive will come from it. There are ways to peacefully demonstrate politically.
If there are riots, I hope that every person who participates in it gets their just desserts. Its going to be a rough time for me and I'm not looking forward to it.
I think that its so freaking stupid that riots are a very real possibility, all it will do is **** off the police and allow them to justify a response, hurt innocent people and businesses. So in other words, nothing positive will come from it. There are ways to peacefully demonstrate politically.
If there are riots, I hope that every person who participates in it gets their just desserts. Its going to be a rough time for me and I'm not looking forward to it.
Last edited by code3suby; 07-03-2010 at 11:22 AM.
07-03-2010, 11:28 AM
#51
VIP Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Under your bed, in your closet, and in your head
Posts: 15,425
Car Info: Corvette Z51
Cops dont carry their side arms cocked in the holsters. Unless your working in San pablo (like my cosuin Ryan), there is no reason to. So this *** had to unholster the weapon, aim it at the dudes back, **** (pull the hammer back on the) THE GODDAMN FIREARM (which you don't have to do in the same way with the tazer), and then pull the trigger.
Gun experts chime in please!
07-03-2010, 12:01 PM
#52
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cali 2 BC
Posts: 594
Car Info: silverthorne 2000 2.5rs
Not bringing either Grant nor the Officer's character into it.. my only .02 is that it was obviously not murder, it's involuntary manslaughter. The cop is at fault whether because of the heat of the moment or poor training, but it was an accident though he did not kill Grant on purpose.
Second, it's a shame that people are going to use this as an excuse to riot, and only because it was a white on minority incident. If this was anything else, white on white, minority on minority, no one would be talking about riots afterwords. Sad that we still have to bring race into this. Grant could've been any color of hooligan and this would have happened as i see it, due to the hectic situation on the platform at the time and **** POOR training the officer obviously recieved.
Stay out of the East Bay when the verdict is dropped.
Second, it's a shame that people are going to use this as an excuse to riot, and only because it was a white on minority incident. If this was anything else, white on white, minority on minority, no one would be talking about riots afterwords. Sad that we still have to bring race into this. Grant could've been any color of hooligan and this would have happened as i see it, due to the hectic situation on the platform at the time and **** POOR training the officer obviously recieved.
Stay out of the East Bay when the verdict is dropped.
07-03-2010, 05:02 PM
#54
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 207
Car Info: 2015 WRX Limited
Wait, aren't Sig's double action? No cocking the weapon needed to fire once a full magazine is loaded and the slide is racked IIRC. On top of that, certain Sig models have that thumb latch to return the hammer to a resting position with a single action trigger pull IIRC.
Gun experts chime in please!
Gun experts chime in please!
As someone who has received law enforcement training and saw the videos, none of the officers acted or used appropriate force levels for the actions from the suspects. The BART cops showed inexperience, uncertainty, lack of professionalism and used higher levels of force than needed to gain compliance. Even using a tazer on the suspect would have been an unnecessary use of force that could have been resolved with lower levels of force especially with 2 officers on him. BART should consider sending all of their officers through more training as well as ongoing training and even leadership training to prevent incidents like this from happening again. Proper training and at least monthly (should be weekly) would/could have prevented this from happening.
I have never been one to sympathize with those being arrested or those injured or killed during arrest nor do I have a bleeding heart for the suspect that died. However in a court of law it is the court's duty to press charges against this officer for using excessive force. As for the actual charge he should be hit with, it should depend on the use of force training he received as a BART officer. If this training was adequate then voluntary manslaughter should be fitting, if not involuntary manslaughter and BART needs to adjust their training.
07-03-2010, 05:30 PM
#56
Registered User
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Union City, CA
Posts: 1,056
Car Info: MY05RS, MY70914, and MY10VT1300CS
Wait, aren't Sig's double action? No cocking the weapon needed to fire once a full magazine is loaded and the slide is racked IIRC. On top of that, certain Sig models have that thumb latch to return the hammer to a resting position with a single action trigger pull IIRC.
Gun experts chime in please!
Gun experts chime in please!
07-03-2010, 05:37 PM
#57
VIP Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Under your bed, in your closet, and in your head
Posts: 15,425
Car Info: Corvette Z51
Yes, Sig's are double action if the hammer is all the way forward and most models (except the DAK models) are single action once the hammer is pulled back or the slide has gone to the rear from racking or firing. Simply put if you pull the trigger on a Sig pistol it will fire each and every time you pull the trigger until empty or malfunction no matter what the condition of the hammer. They make great service pistols for properly trained law enforcement officers and military.
As someone who has received law enforcement training and saw the videos, none of the officers acted or used appropriate force levels for the actions from the suspects. The BART cops showed inexperience, uncertainty, lack of professionalism and used higher levels of force than needed to gain compliance. Even using a tazer on the suspect would have been an unnecessary use of force that could have been resolved with lower levels of force especially with 2 officers on him. BART should consider sending all of their officers through more training as well as ongoing training and even leadership training to prevent incidents like this from happening again. Proper training and at least monthly (should be weekly) would/could have prevented this from happening.
I have never been one to sympathize with those being arrested or those injured or killed during arrest nor do I have a bleeding heart for the suspect that died. However in a court of law it is the court's duty to press charges against this officer for using excessive force. As for the actual charge he should be hit with, it should depend on the use of force training he received as a BART officer. If this training was adequate then voluntary manslaughter should be fitting, if not involuntary manslaughter and BART needs to adjust their training.
As someone who has received law enforcement training and saw the videos, none of the officers acted or used appropriate force levels for the actions from the suspects. The BART cops showed inexperience, uncertainty, lack of professionalism and used higher levels of force than needed to gain compliance. Even using a tazer on the suspect would have been an unnecessary use of force that could have been resolved with lower levels of force especially with 2 officers on him. BART should consider sending all of their officers through more training as well as ongoing training and even leadership training to prevent incidents like this from happening again. Proper training and at least monthly (should be weekly) would/could have prevented this from happening.
I have never been one to sympathize with those being arrested or those injured or killed during arrest nor do I have a bleeding heart for the suspect that died. However in a court of law it is the court's duty to press charges against this officer for using excessive force. As for the actual charge he should be hit with, it should depend on the use of force training he received as a BART officer. If this training was adequate then voluntary manslaughter should be fitting, if not involuntary manslaughter and BART needs to adjust their training.
07-03-2010, 07:14 PM
#58
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snatchin' your people up
Posts: 3,779
Car Info: Hilux Double Cab with a Dishka on top
Wait, aren't Sig's double action? No cocking the weapon needed to fire once a full magazine is loaded and the slide is racked IIRC. On top of that, certain Sig models have that thumb latch to return the hammer to a resting position with a single action trigger pull IIRC.
Gun experts chime in please!
Gun experts chime in please!
The decock lever drops the hammer to return it to double action mode.
Last edited by Lurk; 07-03-2010 at 07:17 PM.
07-03-2010, 09:10 PM
#59
VIP Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Under your bed, in your closet, and in your head
Posts: 15,425
Car Info: Corvette Z51
That's correct. When the Sig is in Condition 1 (round in chamber) you can fire the weapon by simply pulling the trigger. The first shot will be double action and all subsequent shots will be in single action mode.
The decock lever drops the hammer to return it to double action mode.
The decock lever drops the hammer to return it to double action mode.
07-04-2010, 12:05 AM
#60
Friendly Neighborhood Ogre
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: www.gunatics.com
Posts: 19,930
Car Info: GUNATICS.COM
Lurk is correct.
What model sig do BART cops use? The P220? P229? Those are common amongst most PD's, probably the P229...
Lets all meet in Oakland when the verdict is read and have a BAM sized meet right across the street from city hall! What do you guys think? Isn't it a great idea?!
What model sig do BART cops use? The P220? P229? Those are common amongst most PD's, probably the P229...
Lets all meet in Oakland when the verdict is read and have a BAM sized meet right across the street from city hall! What do you guys think? Isn't it a great idea?!