upgrading...need gauges?
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Car Info: '04 ed tuned vf39 jbp wagon
upgrading...need gauges?
I'm upgrading the car soon w/ turbo, up, dp, tmic(already in), injectors, plugs, fp, and taking it in for a tune.
I wanted to get an opinion on gauges, though. How important are they after upgrading??
I'm getting an opensource tune, so I won't have as much feedback on the engine as say using an AP. BUT, I really don't like the idea of having gauges in the car. I have a few things that tip off my car, but for the most part I'm not interested...at all...in having mods that attract attention. I've already had my car broken into since I've moved to the bay area and I'd rather not go through that again.
I wanted to get an opinion on gauges, though. How important are they after upgrading??
I'm getting an opensource tune, so I won't have as much feedback on the engine as say using an AP. BUT, I really don't like the idea of having gauges in the car. I have a few things that tip off my car, but for the most part I'm not interested...at all...in having mods that attract attention. I've already had my car broken into since I've moved to the bay area and I'd rather not go through that again.
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Just think, with the money you're gonna spend on gages, you could buy an AccessPORT.
I'm getting an opensource tune, so I won't have as much feedback on the engine as say using an AP. BUT, I really don't like the idea of having gauges in the car. I have a few things that tip off my car, but for the most part I'm not interested...at all...in having mods that attract attention. I've already had my car broken into since I've moved to the bay area and I'd rather not go through that again.
I'm getting an opensource tune, so I won't have as much feedback on the engine as say using an AP. BUT, I really don't like the idea of having gauges in the car. I have a few things that tip off my car, but for the most part I'm not interested...at all...in having mods that attract attention. I've already had my car broken into since I've moved to the bay area and I'd rather not go through that again.
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I woul reccomend a boost guage at a minnimum and I really lke the on on ebay that fits in the upper left air vent its inconspicuous and does the job.
heres the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Subar...Q5fAccessories
I think if you look in the adventures at DB tuned thread Paul just installed one of these beauties. ^^^^^^^
I am the same way. Not much of a fan of guages and going for the sleeper look in my WRX but running 2 walbro's and E-85 on a blouch dom 3 I kinda need a boost,EGT,Fuel pressure, and AFR guage so so much for that. I was loosing sleep over where to fit them all as I do not like the pillar mount so im going with dash mount but needed to fit one more guage and then I saw that.....
heres the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Subar...Q5fAccessories
I think if you look in the adventures at DB tuned thread Paul just installed one of these beauties. ^^^^^^^
I am the same way. Not much of a fan of guages and going for the sleeper look in my WRX but running 2 walbro's and E-85 on a blouch dom 3 I kinda need a boost,EGT,Fuel pressure, and AFR guage so so much for that. I was loosing sleep over where to fit them all as I do not like the pillar mount so im going with dash mount but needed to fit one more guage and then I saw that.....
Last edited by Shayhan27; Jun 2, 2009 at 02:32 PM.
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Well I'm hoping that it's something not critical to have. I debated the whole AP vs OpenSource for quite a while. Though the AP does have those features, I doubt I'd look at them much. I wouldn't have mounted the AP so it would have been sitting in my glove box.
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I was gonna say that I'm thinking that the wide band 02 is probably the #2 gauge I'd get after the boost gauge just cause it'd help make sure the engine didn't pop.
I'm planning on getting a conservative tune, so I'm not expecting the ability to monitor the AFR to be too much of an issue.
I'm planning on getting a conservative tune, so I'm not expecting the ability to monitor the AFR to be too much of an issue.
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Car Info: '04 ed tuned vf39 jbp wagon
A follow up question to whether a gauge/gauges are needed for everyone...what would be the most important if I were to get one, maybe two?
After poking around, I'm thinking that maybe the stock wrx boost gauge might be inconspicuous enough if I were needing to get one. It seems like it's tucked away pretty well under the dash sitting on the column.
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Got a mechanical boost gauge for sale - Defi BF.
https://www.i-club.com/forums/norcal-classifieds-96/defi-60mm-mechanical-boost-gauge-204963/
https://www.i-club.com/forums/norcal-classifieds-96/defi-60mm-mechanical-boost-gauge-204963/
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FYI: a real wide-band O2 gauge will blow out sensors like crazy. When a shop uses a wide-band for tuning, they are replaced very often due to how easy they go foul.
there are some good A/F gauges out there that are not "wide band" that might do the trick.
there are some good A/F gauges out there that are not "wide band" that might do the trick.
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Car Info: '04 ed tuned vf39 jbp wagon
I woul reccomend a boost guage at a minnimum and I really lke the on on ebay that fits in the upper left air vent its inconspicuous and does the job.
heres the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Subar...Q5fAccessories
I think if you look in the adventures at DB tuned thread Paul just installed one of these beauties. ^^^^^^^
I am the same way. Not much of a fan of guages and going for the sleeper look in my WRX but running 2 walbro's and E-85 on a blouch dom 3 I kinda need a boost,EGT,Fuel pressure, and AFR guage so so much for that. I was loosing sleep over where to fit them all as I do not like the pillar mount so im going with dash mount but needed to fit one more guage and then I saw that.....
heres the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Subar...Q5fAccessories
I think if you look in the adventures at DB tuned thread Paul just installed one of these beauties. ^^^^^^^
I am the same way. Not much of a fan of guages and going for the sleeper look in my WRX but running 2 walbro's and E-85 on a blouch dom 3 I kinda need a boost,EGT,Fuel pressure, and AFR guage so so much for that. I was loosing sleep over where to fit them all as I do not like the pillar mount so im going with dash mount but needed to fit one more guage and then I saw that.....
I took a look at Paul's thread but that gauge doesn't look too subtle. :\
good info. thanks!
before you go spending money on unneeded gauges for your car lemme break it down:
- you don't need a boost gauge unless you max out the stock MAP sensor, which read to about 22.7 psi. Because the subaru has fuel cut. Even then you can install an upgraded sensor. Although you can use it to diagnose manifold leaks though, since the boost gauge is measuring manifold pressure and that includes vacuum at zero throttle.
- you don't need an egt gauge either. A good tune will take care of that
- You don't need an wideband period. But it's cool to have. Mine's has consistently failed every 15-20k miles over the last 5 years I've had it
- Oil temp is cool to have if you do trackdays
- oil pressure and fuel pressure are cool to have, but usually if it goes awry you're already screwed, and the gauge won't save you
Really, money spent on gauges is far better spent elsewhere until your car is heavily modified. You needed boost gauges on old MR2/DSMs for example because you had to tune caveman style with a boost controller, whereas a subaru has a boost solenoid. And you needed Widebands too because S-AFCs are a caveman way of tuning air/fuel ratio, but the subaru ecu can be tuned to far better resolution.
Fortunately with Subaru ecu reflashes, it's not caveman tuning and you don't need these.
- you don't need a boost gauge unless you max out the stock MAP sensor, which read to about 22.7 psi. Because the subaru has fuel cut. Even then you can install an upgraded sensor. Although you can use it to diagnose manifold leaks though, since the boost gauge is measuring manifold pressure and that includes vacuum at zero throttle.
- you don't need an egt gauge either. A good tune will take care of that
- You don't need an wideband period. But it's cool to have. Mine's has consistently failed every 15-20k miles over the last 5 years I've had it
- Oil temp is cool to have if you do trackdays
- oil pressure and fuel pressure are cool to have, but usually if it goes awry you're already screwed, and the gauge won't save you
Really, money spent on gauges is far better spent elsewhere until your car is heavily modified. You needed boost gauges on old MR2/DSMs for example because you had to tune caveman style with a boost controller, whereas a subaru has a boost solenoid. And you needed Widebands too because S-AFCs are a caveman way of tuning air/fuel ratio, but the subaru ecu can be tuned to far better resolution.
Fortunately with Subaru ecu reflashes, it's not caveman tuning and you don't need these.
Last edited by verc; Jun 2, 2009 at 10:12 PM.
before you go spending money on useless gauges for your stage 2 car lemme break it down:
- you don't need a boost gauge unless you max out the stock MAP sensor, which read to about 22.7 psi. Because the subaru has fuel cut. Even then you can install an upgraded sensor. Although you can use it to diagnose manifold leaks though, since the boost gauge is measuring manifold pressure and that includes vacuum at zero throttle.
- you don't need an egt gauge either. A good tune will take care of that
- You don't need an wideband period. But it's cool to have. Mine's has consistently failed every 15-20k miles over the last 5 years I've had it
- Oil temp is cool to have if you do trackdays
- oil pressure and fuel pressure are cool to have, but usually if it goes awry you're already screwed, and the gauge won't save you
- you don't need a boost gauge unless you max out the stock MAP sensor, which read to about 22.7 psi. Because the subaru has fuel cut. Even then you can install an upgraded sensor. Although you can use it to diagnose manifold leaks though, since the boost gauge is measuring manifold pressure and that includes vacuum at zero throttle.
- you don't need an egt gauge either. A good tune will take care of that
- You don't need an wideband period. But it's cool to have. Mine's has consistently failed every 15-20k miles over the last 5 years I've had it
- Oil temp is cool to have if you do trackdays
- oil pressure and fuel pressure are cool to have, but usually if it goes awry you're already screwed, and the gauge won't save you
youll hit the maf limit before you hit boost pressure max
unless you are doing weird stuff like boosting the hell out of the stock turbo
boost is pretty useless the tuning software i have used has a MAP reading right there
although it is slower than the gague it does work
its hard to read when doning a pull so a datalogger is needed thats on the tuner
egt is nice it depends on the tune. if its super conservative youll be fine / not need it
oil pressure and fuel pressure like he said are useless by the time you see something wrong its ****ed
oil temps get hotter than coolant in a session
an oil cooler takes care of that. you wont have to worry about it. spend the money there instead of a gague
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before you go spending money on unneeded gauges for your car lemme break it down:
- you don't need a boost gauge unless you max out the stock MAP sensor, which read to about 22.7 psi. Because the subaru has fuel cut. Even then you can install an upgraded sensor. Although you can use it to diagnose manifold leaks though, since the boost gauge is measuring manifold pressure and that includes vacuum at zero throttle.
- you don't need an egt gauge either. A good tune will take care of that
- You don't need an wideband period. But it's cool to have. Mine's has consistently failed every 15-20k miles over the last 5 years I've had it
- Oil temp is cool to have if you do trackdays
- oil pressure and fuel pressure are cool to have, but usually if it goes awry you're already screwed, and the gauge won't save you
Really, money spent on gauges is far better spent elsewhere until your car is heavily modified. You needed boost gauges on old MR2/DSMs for example because you had to tune caveman style with a boost controller, whereas a subaru has a boost solenoid. And you needed Widebands too because S-AFCs are a caveman way of tuning air/fuel ratio, but the subaru ecu can be tuned to far better resolution.
Fortunately with Subaru ecu reflashes, it's not caveman tuning and you don't need these.
- you don't need a boost gauge unless you max out the stock MAP sensor, which read to about 22.7 psi. Because the subaru has fuel cut. Even then you can install an upgraded sensor. Although you can use it to diagnose manifold leaks though, since the boost gauge is measuring manifold pressure and that includes vacuum at zero throttle.
- you don't need an egt gauge either. A good tune will take care of that
- You don't need an wideband period. But it's cool to have. Mine's has consistently failed every 15-20k miles over the last 5 years I've had it
- Oil temp is cool to have if you do trackdays
- oil pressure and fuel pressure are cool to have, but usually if it goes awry you're already screwed, and the gauge won't save you
Really, money spent on gauges is far better spent elsewhere until your car is heavily modified. You needed boost gauges on old MR2/DSMs for example because you had to tune caveman style with a boost controller, whereas a subaru has a boost solenoid. And you needed Widebands too because S-AFCs are a caveman way of tuning air/fuel ratio, but the subaru ecu can be tuned to far better resolution.
Fortunately with Subaru ecu reflashes, it's not caveman tuning and you don't need these.
OK ill take it a step further
youll hit the maf limit before you hit boost pressure max
unless you are doing weird stuff like boosting the hell out of the stock turbo
boost is pretty useless the tuning software i have used has a MAP reading right there
although it is slower than the gague it does work
its hard to read when doning a pull so a datalogger is needed thats on the tuner
egt is nice it depends on the tune. if its super conservative youll be fine / not need it
oil pressure and fuel pressure like he said are useless by the time you see something wrong its ****ed
oil temps get hotter than coolant in a session
an oil cooler takes care of that. you wont have to worry about it. spend the money there instead of a gague
youll hit the maf limit before you hit boost pressure max
unless you are doing weird stuff like boosting the hell out of the stock turbo
boost is pretty useless the tuning software i have used has a MAP reading right there
although it is slower than the gague it does work
its hard to read when doning a pull so a datalogger is needed thats on the tuner
egt is nice it depends on the tune. if its super conservative youll be fine / not need it
oil pressure and fuel pressure like he said are useless by the time you see something wrong its ****ed
oil temps get hotter than coolant in a session
an oil cooler takes care of that. you wont have to worry about it. spend the money there instead of a gague
awesome...this is the info I was hoping to get...an opinion with reasoning to back it up! much appreciated!
if anyone else would like to chime in, i'll take all the info/opinion I can get
Last edited by rubaCU; Jun 3, 2009 at 06:44 AM.