Sway Bar/Endlink Questions
12-21-2013, 01:44 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Sway Bar/Endlink Questions
Hi Everyone,
Couple suspension questions for you gurus out there.
I recently purchased the following parts to put on my 2013 WRX Hatch, this will be my first performance mod:
Whiteline 24mm F Sway
Whiteline 22mm R Sway
Whitline Rear Sway Brace Support
F/R Kartboy End links
I went to get these parts installed at a local shop this morning and was advised to re-think the use of these parts for the following reasons:
-I was told that full steel design of the Whiteline sway bars are overly stiff and tend to put a great deal of stress on the other parts of suspension. I was explained that this is because they do not use the hollow design such as say Cusco and some other manufactures.
-I was also told that they have experienced many issues with these end links as they do not fit "correctly" causing them to have to bend the control arms.
-I was also told that the poly urethane bushings on the Whiteline sway bars easily wear out causing them to need to be replaced.
Has anyone heard/experienced any of these issues? I was very shocked to hear all of this.
I was skeptical so I decided to sleep on the install and wanted opinions from you guys.
Couple suspension questions for you gurus out there.
I recently purchased the following parts to put on my 2013 WRX Hatch, this will be my first performance mod:
Whiteline 24mm F Sway
Whiteline 22mm R Sway
Whitline Rear Sway Brace Support
F/R Kartboy End links
I went to get these parts installed at a local shop this morning and was advised to re-think the use of these parts for the following reasons:
-I was told that full steel design of the Whiteline sway bars are overly stiff and tend to put a great deal of stress on the other parts of suspension. I was explained that this is because they do not use the hollow design such as say Cusco and some other manufactures.
-I was also told that they have experienced many issues with these end links as they do not fit "correctly" causing them to have to bend the control arms.
-I was also told that the poly urethane bushings on the Whiteline sway bars easily wear out causing them to need to be replaced.
Has anyone heard/experienced any of these issues? I was very shocked to hear all of this.
I was skeptical so I decided to sleep on the install and wanted opinions from you guys.
12-21-2013, 02:36 PM
#2
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I'm pretty sure your endlinks will fail before any control arm starts to bend.. And no matter what, bushings will fail eventually. Just make sure to grease it down from time to time...
Which shop did you go to?
Which shop did you go to?
12-21-2013, 02:43 PM
#3
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I can see where some of those mighttt run true.. duno about all those remarks though.. had to replace the bushings on my USED rear WL bar but it only ran me like $10+made the bar feel brand new, my front WL bar was new when installed and the bushings are in great shape after 30k+
Other than that though its not like they're gonna beat up your suspension much assuming you do the endlinks as well, lowering springs on stock struts is one thing but sway bars shouldnt do much harm other than some NVH
I've been thoroughly impressed with pretty much all the whiteline stuff I run, another close friend has had just WL sways/links+cobb stage 2 on his otherwise stock bugeye and his car is ALOT quicker than stock, one of the best bang for the buck mods out there for our cars imo
Other than that though its not like they're gonna beat up your suspension much assuming you do the endlinks as well, lowering springs on stock struts is one thing but sway bars shouldnt do much harm other than some NVH
I've been thoroughly impressed with pretty much all the whiteline stuff I run, another close friend has had just WL sways/links+cobb stage 2 on his otherwise stock bugeye and his car is ALOT quicker than stock, one of the best bang for the buck mods out there for our cars imo
Last edited by RAWeiss; 12-21-2013 at 02:46 PM.
12-21-2013, 02:48 PM
#4
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Fremont, CA
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Car Info: 2013 swp hatch
I have whiteline rear sways + rear strut brace + kartboy rear endlinks. No issues here. The only issue is my crappy ride on eibachs.
About the endlinks, they fit perfectly. Previously, kartboy had released endlinks that were too long, which would end up hitting the rear struts. Their current design is shorter.
About the endlinks, they fit perfectly. Previously, kartboy had released endlinks that were too long, which would end up hitting the rear struts. Their current design is shorter.
12-21-2013, 07:58 PM
#6
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Cusco bars are just as heavy and not hollow that I know of. But my experience is on the earlier cars not the multi link cars like yours.
End links aren't likely to bend/break control arms. If they are made for the car you should be fine.
I think you're safe...
Oh... And just install them yourself
End links aren't likely to bend/break control arms. If they are made for the car you should be fine.
I think you're safe...
Oh... And just install them yourself
12-21-2013, 08:46 PM
#7
Sounds like they want to sell you a bunch of Cusco parts or whatever else they carry.
I have 22mm f/r Whiteline swaybars and Kartboy endlinks on my 2012 WRX; works fine. Slight oversteer on lift throttle around corners but that's about it. Feal 441 coilovers, too.
No bent control arms here.
If you're in the East Bay, maybe give RBMS a call and have them do it. That's who has worked on my car since new.
I have 22mm f/r Whiteline swaybars and Kartboy endlinks on my 2012 WRX; works fine. Slight oversteer on lift throttle around corners but that's about it. Feal 441 coilovers, too.
No bent control arms here.
If you're in the East Bay, maybe give RBMS a call and have them do it. That's who has worked on my car since new.
12-21-2013, 10:18 PM
#8
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 26
22mm Whiteline front and rear with Whiteline adjustable end links and no problems so far. They definitely transformed the handling more dramatically than any other aftermarket component on the car.
Whiteline has a reputation for doing their R&D and producing functional, high quality parts that fit like OEM. I think the word would be out if they were causing the kind if issues your shop reported, and the fact is, Whiteline has a great reputation.
Whiteline has a reputation for doing their R&D and producing functional, high quality parts that fit like OEM. I think the word would be out if they were causing the kind if issues your shop reported, and the fact is, Whiteline has a great reputation.
12-23-2013, 11:47 AM
#12
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Car Info: 2011 WRX hatch gray
Hi Everyone,
Couple suspension questions for you gurus out there.
I recently purchased the following parts to put on my 2013 WRX Hatch, this will be my first performance mod:
Whiteline 24mm F Sway
Whiteline 22mm R Sway
Whitline Rear Sway Brace Support
F/R Kartboy End links
I went to get these parts installed at a local shop this morning and was advised to re-think the use of these parts for the following reasons:
-I was told that full steel design of the Whiteline sway bars are overly stiff and tend to put a great deal of stress on the other parts of suspension. I was explained that this is because they do not use the hollow design such as say Cusco and some other manufactures.
-I was also told that they have experienced many issues with these end links as they do not fit "correctly" causing them to have to bend the control arms.
-I was also told that the poly urethane bushings on the Whiteline sway bars easily wear out causing them to need to be replaced.
Has anyone heard/experienced any of these issues? I was very shocked to hear all of this.
I was skeptical so I decided to sleep on the install and wanted opinions from you guys.
Couple suspension questions for you gurus out there.
I recently purchased the following parts to put on my 2013 WRX Hatch, this will be my first performance mod:
Whiteline 24mm F Sway
Whiteline 22mm R Sway
Whitline Rear Sway Brace Support
F/R Kartboy End links
I went to get these parts installed at a local shop this morning and was advised to re-think the use of these parts for the following reasons:
-I was told that full steel design of the Whiteline sway bars are overly stiff and tend to put a great deal of stress on the other parts of suspension. I was explained that this is because they do not use the hollow design such as say Cusco and some other manufactures.
-I was also told that they have experienced many issues with these end links as they do not fit "correctly" causing them to have to bend the control arms.
-I was also told that the poly urethane bushings on the Whiteline sway bars easily wear out causing them to need to be replaced.
Has anyone heard/experienced any of these issues? I was very shocked to hear all of this.
I was skeptical so I decided to sleep on the install and wanted opinions from you guys.
- adding stiffer sway bars will add more stress, and the stiffer you go, the more stress. However, 22mm and 24mm will not immediately (or even medium term) "break" your car. Both 22/24 are commonly used.
- That being said, I personally feel 24mm is just too much. It's a bandaid for people who go hot into turns and still want "flat cornering". Stiff suspension don't need as much bar, and soft suspensions start to feel jittery with stiff bars.
- caveat: for autocrossers... ignore the previous bullet because that's a completely different application. In some cases 27mm is even appropriate.
- also, the 24F/22R combination is probably still more on the "stock understeery" side of things. It sounds like you are setting up a "sporty daily driver"; is that what you want? Even 22/22 seems to be a better setup. Or even better, get a rear adjustable so it's more like 22/21 if you still want understeer bias. (Personally I'm ready to go back to stock 20/20 for the wheel independence; as long as you have STI rate springs or stiffer)
- kartboys (or any solid endlink with bushings) are not going to bend the control arm easily. They do clack (noise) because of the over tolerance of the bolt sleeves.
- urethane bushings do wear out if not periodically cleaned and regreased. It's the price you pay, and most car modifiers are willing to pay it.
It sounds like you went to a shop that is used to addressing the needs of Camry drivers who want the quiet, appliance-reliable, low-maintenance, grandma comfort use model out of their cars. Nothing wrong with this point of view, but it's probably not aligned with your "subie enthusiest" goal. Find another shop.
EDIT: Whoops... I missed the GR chassis even though it's right there in the post. Never mind about my 24/22 comment because I have no idea with the GR.
Last edited by chimchimm5; 12-23-2013 at 03:53 PM.
12-23-2013, 12:13 PM
#13
Can you explain to me why large sway bars are a bandaid for people that enter corners to fast and still want flat cornering?
I'm curious about that one. I find that with my bandaid sway bar... if I enter a corner to fast I pay for it. A lot more so than when I had smaller bars. Lift/snap oversteer is a MUCH larger issue with 24/27mm bars.
As for auto crossers... I know a few with SOLID bars.
Solid endlinks should not clack. That means they don't fit right or there's something wrong with them. I've got whitelines front and rear right now... no noise what so ever. The perrins were quiet until the bearing gave out. But I suppose it's normal for them to be a bit louder than stock crap.
I am curious. The sway bar stuff interests me because it seems like I always read different stuff.
Some folks say with the GD you gotta run a larger rear bar. Then I read auto crossers telling people to run a larger front bar or equal sized bars.
With the GR chassis I keep reading that you should run upgraded and equal sized bars or run the 24/22 set up. Everything I've read that sounds like the set up I would run.
Running those big ol 27's you're gonna have to run a pretty agressive set up all around.
I always have a hard time with these questions on line because you have guys like me that are familiar with the GD trying to tell guys with a GR what to do. I can only regurgitate what I've read on that platform as I don't own one. What I have done is read what folks like Turn In have to say about it.
So my recommendation is 24/22 with solid endlinks. LOL!
I'm curious about that one. I find that with my bandaid sway bar... if I enter a corner to fast I pay for it. A lot more so than when I had smaller bars. Lift/snap oversteer is a MUCH larger issue with 24/27mm bars.
As for auto crossers... I know a few with SOLID bars.
Solid endlinks should not clack. That means they don't fit right or there's something wrong with them. I've got whitelines front and rear right now... no noise what so ever. The perrins were quiet until the bearing gave out. But I suppose it's normal for them to be a bit louder than stock crap.
I am curious. The sway bar stuff interests me because it seems like I always read different stuff.
Some folks say with the GD you gotta run a larger rear bar. Then I read auto crossers telling people to run a larger front bar or equal sized bars.
With the GR chassis I keep reading that you should run upgraded and equal sized bars or run the 24/22 set up. Everything I've read that sounds like the set up I would run.
Running those big ol 27's you're gonna have to run a pretty agressive set up all around.
I always have a hard time with these questions on line because you have guys like me that are familiar with the GD trying to tell guys with a GR what to do. I can only regurgitate what I've read on that platform as I don't own one. What I have done is read what folks like Turn In have to say about it.
So my recommendation is 24/22 with solid endlinks. LOL!
12-23-2013, 12:52 PM
#14
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Well what do you want to do with your car? Autox setups are very different from track use. I never had a problem with my 22mm whitelines and kb endlinks in the STi for 3 years. I dont think i even lubed the endlinks at all. But then again i didnt go a big swaybar since i had coils. This is all on the GD platform so i have no clue for the newer ones.
12-23-2013, 02:12 PM
#15
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I've got WL front and rear swaybars on my car (03 WRX Sedan). I have had them for many years and the ONLY issue I ever had with them was with the rear sway bar mounts.
When I upgraded my Stock RSB to the Whiteline I didn't upgrade the mounts and just used the stock ones. This proved to be a significant issue as the stiffer Whiteline swaybar did cause the stock RSB Mounts to break. That said, after upgrading the RSB Mounts to the Whiteline HD mounts, I have had no further problems at all.
I'm also using Perrin Rear Endlinks and Kartboy Front Endlinks. No issues with those either.
When I upgraded my Stock RSB to the Whiteline I didn't upgrade the mounts and just used the stock ones. This proved to be a significant issue as the stiffer Whiteline swaybar did cause the stock RSB Mounts to break. That said, after upgrading the RSB Mounts to the Whiteline HD mounts, I have had no further problems at all.
I'm also using Perrin Rear Endlinks and Kartboy Front Endlinks. No issues with those either.