A rather interesting article on the new WRX (Electric Turbo and Three Door Hatch?)
02-07-2012, 07:57 AM
#17
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The Exiga looks like what the Forester used to be- Impreza with a real wagon rear-end.
This "electronic turbo/dual-SC-turbo concept sounds fascinating but is it proven? Is Subaru going to be the first to make use of such a system?
This "electronic turbo/dual-SC-turbo concept sounds fascinating but is it proven? Is Subaru going to be the first to make use of such a system?
02-07-2012, 08:19 AM
#19
From an interview with Garrett's Martin Verschoor, Looks like things like this have been in the making for years. Interesting stuff.
What is E-boosting and what are its prospects?
E-boosting stands for electrical-assisted boosting; by incorporating a very high speed electrical motor in rotating assembly of a turbocharger, you can drive it up to very high speeds, before you have exhaust gases to do so. It is very powerful, specifically when there is no exhaust gas available, such as at idle, or in stop and go.
It is entirely integrated inside the turbocharger, with virtually “real-estate” penalty to speak of. The size of the electric motor is about an inch long. It makes the turbocharger an inch longer, with no impact on the timing and virtually no impact on the weight. The trick is to make electrical motors are capable of motoring more than 120,000 rpm and withstand mechanical loads in excess of 200,000 rpm – because turbos spin that fast.
The other challenge is to get enough electrical energy into their designs. The majority of cars use 12 volt or a 14-volt alternator.42 volt would be a significant help. But we believe that electric boost is feasible with 12-volt systems. The prospect is very real for electric boost. You will see it in premium diesels such as the Renault Aspach (sic) or the Peugeot A06 (in Europe). They have limited space and need lots of power density and bottom end. I also clearly see it in high-end gasoline engines, built for high performance.
I could imagine it in a (Chevrolet) Corvette or (Ford) Mustang Cobra like vehicle, having an electrical-assist turbo. If you go to 42 volt or a hybrid, e boosting would also allow very aggressive downsizing of the (IC) engine. This would allow very aggressive downsizing of the engine. Instead of applying a three-liter V6, you could apply a one-liter internal combustion engine, equipped with an electrical boost turbo plus an electric motor. You can only do extreme downsizing – 50 percent or more – with electrical assist turbocharging.
E-boosting stands for electrical-assisted boosting; by incorporating a very high speed electrical motor in rotating assembly of a turbocharger, you can drive it up to very high speeds, before you have exhaust gases to do so. It is very powerful, specifically when there is no exhaust gas available, such as at idle, or in stop and go.
It is entirely integrated inside the turbocharger, with virtually “real-estate” penalty to speak of. The size of the electric motor is about an inch long. It makes the turbocharger an inch longer, with no impact on the timing and virtually no impact on the weight. The trick is to make electrical motors are capable of motoring more than 120,000 rpm and withstand mechanical loads in excess of 200,000 rpm – because turbos spin that fast.
The other challenge is to get enough electrical energy into their designs. The majority of cars use 12 volt or a 14-volt alternator.42 volt would be a significant help. But we believe that electric boost is feasible with 12-volt systems. The prospect is very real for electric boost. You will see it in premium diesels such as the Renault Aspach (sic) or the Peugeot A06 (in Europe). They have limited space and need lots of power density and bottom end. I also clearly see it in high-end gasoline engines, built for high performance.
I could imagine it in a (Chevrolet) Corvette or (Ford) Mustang Cobra like vehicle, having an electrical-assist turbo. If you go to 42 volt or a hybrid, e boosting would also allow very aggressive downsizing of the (IC) engine. This would allow very aggressive downsizing of the engine. Instead of applying a three-liter V6, you could apply a one-liter internal combustion engine, equipped with an electrical boost turbo plus an electric motor. You can only do extreme downsizing – 50 percent or more – with electrical assist turbocharging.
02-07-2012, 08:34 AM
#20
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If Subaru plans on returning to the WRC, the motor regs are now 1.6L, that's why the road car will have it too, it's for homologation purposes. Lower power, more like less torque, that's why they are testing out a twin charger setup (supercharger for low rev takeoff & turbo for high rev hp). This electric super/turbo charger above is new to me, sounds interesting though. Also, all WRC cars are mainly 3D hatchbacks now, hence to go that route too, i personally love the sound of that, smaller, lighter, wider, meaner, sportier, rally-inspired, hell yeah, sign me up!
Lets face it: Subaru has been making more money for their shareholders since they dropped out. They are going in a different direction now. A company that is showing increased profits every year is probably not going to try and sell their shareholders on another WRC effort that costs tens of millions of dollars.
02-07-2012, 08:55 AM
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my real concern would be upgrades and maintenance. i don't imagine the price of an e-turbo will be cheap and because it's new technology, it will be interesting to see how soon an aftermarket is even created for one.
02-07-2012, 10:49 AM
#24
I never understood the hate for the hatch...
Hatchbacks are very successful these days in rallying. Hell, the reason why Subaru switched to a hatchback is because Petter Solberg asked them to do so to make it more competitive. Go take a look at the WRC and see what the top competitors are driving. Oh right, they're hatchbacks, a buncha grocery-getting hatchback wagons...
Riiiight... C'mon, you should know better than that.
And besides, the convenience of a hatch/wagon cannot be ignored. I'm sure a lot of Subaru drivers appreciate the hatch design and the ability to go to the local snowboarding areas.
As for the future of Subaru, I think it's just getting better and better.
The FB engine is a nice upgrade from the SOHC non-turbo EJs, and both FB and FA engines feature DOHC and timing chains
The new Impreza is supposedly much better than the previous generation.
If Subaru of America brings in the Exiga, I think I found myself my future cargo/people mover!
New Forester? Based off of the new Impreza platform?
And the XV (Crosstrek), it promises spirited handling (imagine mountain pass fun) with the off-road capability of the Forester. (oddly enough, the XV is just an Impreza hatch lifted with retuned Forester suspension, and the Forester is based off of the Impreza).
Now here's where it goes wrong: The XV and Forester are in the same category of the market (compact SUV/crossover). So there may be a possibility one or the other will no longer be in the lineup. It truly would be sad for me to see two Subarus attempt to cannibalize each other.
Hatchbacks are very successful these days in rallying. Hell, the reason why Subaru switched to a hatchback is because Petter Solberg asked them to do so to make it more competitive. Go take a look at the WRC and see what the top competitors are driving. Oh right, they're hatchbacks, a buncha grocery-getting hatchback wagons...
Riiiight... C'mon, you should know better than that.
And besides, the convenience of a hatch/wagon cannot be ignored. I'm sure a lot of Subaru drivers appreciate the hatch design and the ability to go to the local snowboarding areas.
As for the future of Subaru, I think it's just getting better and better.
The FB engine is a nice upgrade from the SOHC non-turbo EJs, and both FB and FA engines feature DOHC and timing chains
The new Impreza is supposedly much better than the previous generation.
If Subaru of America brings in the Exiga, I think I found myself my future cargo/people mover!
New Forester? Based off of the new Impreza platform?
And the XV (Crosstrek), it promises spirited handling (imagine mountain pass fun) with the off-road capability of the Forester. (oddly enough, the XV is just an Impreza hatch lifted with retuned Forester suspension, and the Forester is based off of the Impreza).
Now here's where it goes wrong: The XV and Forester are in the same category of the market (compact SUV/crossover). So there may be a possibility one or the other will no longer be in the lineup. It truly would be sad for me to see two Subarus attempt to cannibalize each other.
Here we go again. Are you going to post some actual "data" that supports Subaru reentering the WRC, or are you just pulling this out of your *** again?
Lets face it: Subaru has been making more money for their shareholders since they dropped out. They are going in a different direction now. A company that is showing increased profits every year is probably not going to try and sell their shareholders on another WRC effort that costs tens of millions of dollars.
Lets face it: Subaru has been making more money for their shareholders since they dropped out. They are going in a different direction now. A company that is showing increased profits every year is probably not going to try and sell their shareholders on another WRC effort that costs tens of millions of dollars.
02-07-2012, 10:56 AM
#25
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^I'm talking about the size differences of each vehicle. You can't compare the smaller Ford Fiesta & Citroen DS3 (real 3D hatchbacks) to the bigger 08+ Subaru Impreza WRX STi (5D wagon disguised as hatchback). I'm glad that Subaru finally woke up & realized a real proper hatchback is a small, light weight, 3D car not a big, heavy, 5D wagon (based on the bigass Legacy platform, yeah it's a hatch all right lmao). WRC hatches were always small, that's why Subaru's didn't do so good, it's too damn big still, that's why they pulled out all of a sudden, can't justify the high rallying costs with a loser now. I think things would've been very different had they been winning!
If Subaru brings back the 2-door coupe (22B anyone?) and a new 3-door hatch... Oh man that would be sweet!
02-10-2012, 03:36 PM
#26
It sounds like it's comin' so it'll be sweeter than suga for sure!
Last edited by STiWRX06; 02-10-2012 at 03:39 PM.
02-10-2012, 05:06 PM
#29
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Where do you come up with this sh*t, like i said before, when Subaru "does" return to the WRC, you'd better just keep your mouth shut & go hide somewhere. What, they're just making a 1.6L HO engine, the exact same size as WRC regs, just for the hell of it? Why not stick with the WRX's 2.0 or the current 2.5? Because, it's called "homologation" you idiot! All signs point to a new WRC car, especially hearing it's on an all new exclusive lighter, smaller, wider, 3D hatch design NOT based on the Impreza platform. They're creating a true sport rally race/street car no longer confined to an econobox, yeah sounds like a WRC return to me, they're not gonna go through all that trouble to just make a street car you idiot. I don't know why you're sooo against them returning to WRC for, STi was created for rallying remember, not luxury or comfort. Subaru finally woke up & smelled the exhaust fumes, rallying is part of their image, their flagship cars are made for it, it's what makes us fanboys stay loyal to the brand no matter what, it's what gives them an image, it's what makes a Subaru a Subaru!
The BRZ has better mileage than any Subaru, it is lighter, AND it will go head to head with the Nissan Z, S2000, Miata, and other popular RWD cars. I think this car will be a big hit.
Their new marketing strategy is OBVIOUSLY more effective than competing in WRC as their sales figures are up since they dropped out. Appealing to an entire population sells a lot more cars than appealing to a specific group of motorsports fans.
02-10-2012, 05:11 PM
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P.S. If you look at all of the refused WRX tranny warranty claims, and WRX/STI engine warranty claims, you will realize that they could give half a **** about loyal "fanboys." They want Mom and Dad driving their cars...they could give a damn about the kids who get their car FROM Mom and Dad.
Everyone knows that enthusiasts are the extreme minority, and they do not even begin to represent a marketing segment. So why, I ask you, would they develop an entire car to begin another EXTREMELY COSTLY WRC bid that has been proven to be a less successful marketing strategy than the one they are currently using?
Do not bother answering any of these questions by the way: They are rhetorical.
Everyone knows that enthusiasts are the extreme minority, and they do not even begin to represent a marketing segment. So why, I ask you, would they develop an entire car to begin another EXTREMELY COSTLY WRC bid that has been proven to be a less successful marketing strategy than the one they are currently using?
Do not bother answering any of these questions by the way: They are rhetorical.
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