This guy is a genius
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I didn't say all outsourcing was bad. In fact I don't think it's necessarily bad all together.
Once again you're taking things to the finite point. What you're saying is not only stupid it's impossible and globally irresponsible. The economics of this planet exist on the back of a history of trade started hundreds of years ago. That's not going to change.
What that guy did is sign an agreement with a company to do a job. They hired him, not 20 chinese people. He then farmed said job off for personal gain. What he did was unethical and illegal. It would be the same as you renting a house. They rented that house to YOU. But you don't stay there. Instead you rent it to 2 families with kids and dogs. You're making money because you upped the rent. The person that rented the house now has destruction to their property they would not have had renting to the respectful single man they didn't make pay an extra deposit for pets he didn't have.
Illegal... unethical. That is my point.
As for outsourcing in general. I don't think it's bad to "outsource" for the purchase of goods. I'm not one of those murica! guys. Fact is some things are done better and cheaper elsewhere. But it should not be the end all be all for all things.
Call centers. The job is done better and more efficiently in say Oakland. That's 40,000 jobs for the bay area. But you have to pay those people $12-20 an hour. So you send that call center to Jamaica, the Philippines and India. Now you're paying $3 an hour. But is the service you're providing better? No it's not. You did it because you're trying to save overhead so your profit margins go up and your stock holders are happy.
Now you have 40,000 local people not paying taxes. That's bad for the area. And you have 40,000 local people that can no longer buy those telecom services they were more than likely paying to the company they worked for... that's 40,000 less customers for you. That's bad for you. Now say 30% of those people can't find jobs because the local area had other layoffs and 75,000 people just flooded an area with 50,000 available jobs. Now you have all those people on welfare, food programs, unemployment... etc .
How is that good for the local economy and how is that good for the company in the long run?
Sure your stocks went up and your gains looked good for that quarter. You can get away with doing that for a while but eventually it all catches up. Then you're left with a technology that has not improved and an employee base that can't do the job the old base could. So CEO that made all those moves looks great and makes his couple hundred million over a few years then jumps ship and the company takes a ****.
That is not conjecture. That is fact. I watched it happen.
Once again you're taking things to the finite point. What you're saying is not only stupid it's impossible and globally irresponsible. The economics of this planet exist on the back of a history of trade started hundreds of years ago. That's not going to change.
What that guy did is sign an agreement with a company to do a job. They hired him, not 20 chinese people. He then farmed said job off for personal gain. What he did was unethical and illegal. It would be the same as you renting a house. They rented that house to YOU. But you don't stay there. Instead you rent it to 2 families with kids and dogs. You're making money because you upped the rent. The person that rented the house now has destruction to their property they would not have had renting to the respectful single man they didn't make pay an extra deposit for pets he didn't have.
Illegal... unethical. That is my point.
As for outsourcing in general. I don't think it's bad to "outsource" for the purchase of goods. I'm not one of those murica! guys. Fact is some things are done better and cheaper elsewhere. But it should not be the end all be all for all things.
Call centers. The job is done better and more efficiently in say Oakland. That's 40,000 jobs for the bay area. But you have to pay those people $12-20 an hour. So you send that call center to Jamaica, the Philippines and India. Now you're paying $3 an hour. But is the service you're providing better? No it's not. You did it because you're trying to save overhead so your profit margins go up and your stock holders are happy.
Now you have 40,000 local people not paying taxes. That's bad for the area. And you have 40,000 local people that can no longer buy those telecom services they were more than likely paying to the company they worked for... that's 40,000 less customers for you. That's bad for you. Now say 30% of those people can't find jobs because the local area had other layoffs and 75,000 people just flooded an area with 50,000 available jobs. Now you have all those people on welfare, food programs, unemployment... etc .
How is that good for the local economy and how is that good for the company in the long run?
Sure your stocks went up and your gains looked good for that quarter. You can get away with doing that for a while but eventually it all catches up. Then you're left with a technology that has not improved and an employee base that can't do the job the old base could. So CEO that made all those moves looks great and makes his couple hundred million over a few years then jumps ship and the company takes a ****.
That is not conjecture. That is fact. I watched it happen.
You never addressed whether the guy in the article did something wrong. Although clever and apparently effective, I agree that it is unethical to go about it the way he did. If he was just hired as a contractor to get a specific job done however he wanted to, then I would say it was brilliant. As it is though he is misrepresenting himself, so that's not good.
I agree with you as well that companies do lots of short-sighted things. That catches up with them. As an employee, don't work for companies like that. As a consumer, take your business elsewhere. As a company, don't contact or do business with them. What else can I tell you? There are bad people in this world. Do your due diligence.
Although we could both give lots of examples of companies only appearing to improve things but actually making things worse, you still cannot argue with the fact that the standard of living in the country and most others has significantly improved over the last 100 years. Pick a metric - infant mortality, lifespan, common diseases, quality and availability of food, access to information and education, ease and time of travel, cost of shipping goods, cost/availability of gizmo's (cars, smartphones, GPS, etc). None of this happened by accident. I attribute most of this to the free market at work. What would you attribute it to?
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dangit I came into this thread too late... I just wanted to +1 the dudes awesomeness but the thread has already gone political debate.
I think the biggest problem is that he violated company policies by giving someone not authorized by the company to have access to private networks. If on the other hand he did a little more work of having them work on their own servers and then provide him the code and then he transfers it over then he would never have been discovered and he avoids the company policy violation.
I think the biggest problem is that he violated company policies by giving someone not authorized by the company to have access to private networks. If on the other hand he did a little more work of having them work on their own servers and then provide him the code and then he transfers it over then he would never have been discovered and he avoids the company policy violation.
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dangit I came into this thread too late... I just wanted to +1 the dudes awesomeness but the thread has already gone political debate.
I think the biggest problem is that he violated company policies by giving someone not authorized by the company to have access to private networks. If on the other hand he did a little more work of having them work on their own servers and then provide him the code and then he transfers it over then he would never have been discovered and he avoids the company policy violation.
I think the biggest problem is that he violated company policies by giving someone not authorized by the company to have access to private networks. If on the other hand he did a little more work of having them work on their own servers and then provide him the code and then he transfers it over then he would never have been discovered and he avoids the company policy violation.
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Joe250... I did address it. I said it was unethical an illegal.
He signed a contract and they paid HIM to to HIS job. If I hired a guy to build a website for me based on his resumé and his portfolio and found out he had his nephew building it for me I'd not only be pissed I'd make damn sure his reputation was toast and more than likely sue him for misrepresentation.
Illegal. Unethical.
He signed a contract and they paid HIM to to HIS job. If I hired a guy to build a website for me based on his resumé and his portfolio and found out he had his nephew building it for me I'd not only be pissed I'd make damn sure his reputation was toast and more than likely sue him for misrepresentation.
Illegal. Unethical.
Thread Starter
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I didn't say all outsourcing was bad. In fact I don't think it's necessarily bad all together.
Once again you're taking things to the finite point. What you're saying is not only stupid it's impossible and globally irresponsible. The economics of this planet exist on the back of a history of trade started hundreds of years ago. That's not going to change.
What that guy did is sign an agreement with a company to do a job. They hired him, not 20 chinese people. He then farmed said job off for personal gain. What he did was unethical and illegal. It would be the same as you renting a house. They rented that house to YOU. But you don't stay there. Instead you rent it to 2 families with kids and dogs. You're making money because you upped the rent. The person that rented the house now has destruction to their property they would not have had renting to the respectful single man they didn't make pay an extra deposit for pets he didn't have.
Illegal... unethical. That is my point.
As for outsourcing in general. I don't think it's bad to "outsource" for the purchase of goods. I'm not one of those murica! guys. Fact is some things are done better and cheaper elsewhere. But it should not be the end all be all for all things.
Call centers. The job is done better and more efficiently in say Oakland. That's 40,000 jobs for the bay area. But you have to pay those people $12-20 an hour. So you send that call center to Jamaica, the Philippines and India. Now you're paying $3 an hour. But is the service you're providing better? No it's not. You did it because you're trying to save overhead so your profit margins go up and your stock holders are happy.
Now you have 40,000 local people not paying taxes. That's bad for the area. And you have 40,000 local people that can no longer buy those telecom services they were more than likely paying to the company they worked for... that's 40,000 less customers for you. That's bad for you. Now say 30% of those people can't find jobs because the local area had other layoffs and 75,000 people just flooded an area with 50,000 available jobs. Now you have all those people on welfare, food programs, unemployment... etc .
How is that good for the local economy and how is that good for the company in the long run?
Sure your stocks went up and your gains looked good for that quarter. You can get away with doing that for a while but eventually it all catches up. Then you're left with a technology that has not improved and an employee base that can't do the job the old base could. So CEO that made all those moves looks great and makes his couple hundred million over a few years then jumps ship and the company takes a ****.
That is not conjecture. That is fact. I watched it happen.
Once again you're taking things to the finite point. What you're saying is not only stupid it's impossible and globally irresponsible. The economics of this planet exist on the back of a history of trade started hundreds of years ago. That's not going to change.
What that guy did is sign an agreement with a company to do a job. They hired him, not 20 chinese people. He then farmed said job off for personal gain. What he did was unethical and illegal. It would be the same as you renting a house. They rented that house to YOU. But you don't stay there. Instead you rent it to 2 families with kids and dogs. You're making money because you upped the rent. The person that rented the house now has destruction to their property they would not have had renting to the respectful single man they didn't make pay an extra deposit for pets he didn't have.
Illegal... unethical. That is my point.
As for outsourcing in general. I don't think it's bad to "outsource" for the purchase of goods. I'm not one of those murica! guys. Fact is some things are done better and cheaper elsewhere. But it should not be the end all be all for all things.
Call centers. The job is done better and more efficiently in say Oakland. That's 40,000 jobs for the bay area. But you have to pay those people $12-20 an hour. So you send that call center to Jamaica, the Philippines and India. Now you're paying $3 an hour. But is the service you're providing better? No it's not. You did it because you're trying to save overhead so your profit margins go up and your stock holders are happy.
Now you have 40,000 local people not paying taxes. That's bad for the area. And you have 40,000 local people that can no longer buy those telecom services they were more than likely paying to the company they worked for... that's 40,000 less customers for you. That's bad for you. Now say 30% of those people can't find jobs because the local area had other layoffs and 75,000 people just flooded an area with 50,000 available jobs. Now you have all those people on welfare, food programs, unemployment... etc .
How is that good for the local economy and how is that good for the company in the long run?
Sure your stocks went up and your gains looked good for that quarter. You can get away with doing that for a while but eventually it all catches up. Then you're left with a technology that has not improved and an employee base that can't do the job the old base could. So CEO that made all those moves looks great and makes his couple hundred million over a few years then jumps ship and the company takes a ****.
That is not conjecture. That is fact. I watched it happen.
As for "technology that has not improved", by shipping production overseas, the products not only become cheaper, but adoption rates increase, smartphones and computers (among other things) would not be at the level that they are now if only 1% of the population used them. Companies have no incentive to pour millions of dollars into R&D if the market is so niche.
Joe250... I did address it. I said it was unethical an illegal.
He signed a contract and they paid HIM to to HIS job. If I hired a guy to build a website for me based on his resumé and his portfolio and found out he had his nephew building it for me I'd not only be pissed I'd make damn sure his reputation was toast and more than likely sue him for misrepresentation.
Illegal. Unethical.
He signed a contract and they paid HIM to to HIS job. If I hired a guy to build a website for me based on his resumé and his portfolio and found out he had his nephew building it for me I'd not only be pissed I'd make damn sure his reputation was toast and more than likely sue him for misrepresentation.
Illegal. Unethical.
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From: Knee deep in beer. subabrew crew, ca.
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We're still so far behind in telecommunications technology it's laughable. US based customers are just starting to do stuff we were doing in korea 10 years ago.
A companies LONG TERM goal should be to continue to make money. You do that buy strengthening your local community as well as your national stability. Somewhere along the lines we've gotten away from that and I think that's where a huge part of the problem is. When making money right now is your sole goal it's only a matter of time before you're done. But people don't care because they're making money so who gives a **** about everyone else.
Take our community as a small sample of this. You open a shop for a couple reason... 1. Because you love it and you think you can provide a solid service.
2. To make a living
When making money becomes your only goal and you stop caring about customer service, reputation and the original intentions of what you were doing it's only a matter of time before you're done. You grow or you fade.
When is fraud not illegal?
A companies LONG TERM goal should be to continue to make money. You do that buy strengthening your local community as well as your national stability. Somewhere along the lines we've gotten away from that and I think that's where a huge part of the problem is. When making money right now is your sole goal it's only a matter of time before you're done. But people don't care because they're making money so who gives a **** about everyone else.
Take our community as a small sample of this. You open a shop for a couple reason... 1. Because you love it and you think you can provide a solid service.
2. To make a living
When making money becomes your only goal and you stop caring about customer service, reputation and the original intentions of what you were doing it's only a matter of time before you're done. You grow or you fade.
When is fraud not illegal?
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General Pimpin'
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previously known as wrxBRAH
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I dont know man. I could easily come up with 20 years worth of stuff to do with free money. Money buys me security in life and the ability to enjoy it instead of doing the 9-5 grind 6 days a week. Id do what that guy did in a heartbeat.
I've always been envious of one of my friends that was raised into a very successful family machine shop. The guy works maybe 2 days a week programming and is out having adventures the other 5 days. Cant say I wouldnt trade lives with him.
I've always been envious of one of my friends that was raised into a very successful family machine shop. The guy works maybe 2 days a week programming and is out having adventures the other 5 days. Cant say I wouldnt trade lives with him.
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soooo +1 for human greed.
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General Pimpin'
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From: Knee deep in beer. subabrew crew, ca.
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I dont know man. I could easily come up with 20 years worth of stuff to do with free money. Money buys me security in life and the ability to enjoy it instead of doing the 9-5 grind 6 days a week. Id do what that guy did in a heartbeat.
I've always been envious of one of my friends that was raised into a very successful family machine shop. The guy works maybe 2 days a week programming and is out having adventures the other 5 days. Cant say I wouldnt trade lives with him.
I've always been envious of one of my friends that was raised into a very successful family machine shop. The guy works maybe 2 days a week programming and is out having adventures the other 5 days. Cant say I wouldnt trade lives with him.
I wish I made more money. But I wouldn't be able to sit on my *** and do nothing knowing I was cheating people. I used to have a pretty solid job in S.F. I made good money and was able to do whatever I wanted. I sometimes only worked maybe 10 hours a week and got paid for 40. I'd take long lunches. Eat steaks and play video games on my lunch breaks. Etc.
After 7 years I felt like I was wasting my life away and I wanted to make a change. I took a $35,000 pay cut and moved back home to santa cruz. It's been 7 years since then and I'm still not back to where I was. I may never be. But I'd do it again in a heart beat.
Until you've been there done that you can't know.
Of course I'd love more money but I'd never intentionally cheat anyone out of anything and I'd never be happy doing nothing.
I know trust fund kids that walk both walks of the line.... some do nothing and some take the opportunity to do something.
What the dude did is a model of what's wrong with todays society. Everyone expects to be a millionaire. Had that dude actually done his job maybe he could have helped his company provide a better service and maybe he'd be moving up the chain. Instead he's a news report.
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