Diageo shuts down Menlo Park plant to raid employee pensions

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Old Aug 14, 2011 | 01:43 AM
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US labor is expensive, this elimination will help keep my alchohol prices down : )
Sorry for those who lost their jobs tho.
Old Aug 14, 2011 | 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mattej
US labor is expensive, this elimination will help keep my alchohol prices down : )
Sorry for those who lost their jobs tho.
Foreign labor won't seem so cheap when you dont have a job
Old Aug 14, 2011 | 08:18 AM
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Old Aug 14, 2011 | 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by irrational x
... If you hate capitalism you could always expatriate to Switzerland or something...

Once again you live up to your screen name;

The economy of Switzerland is one of the world's most stable economies. Its policy of long-term monetary security and political stability has made Switzerland a safe haven for investors, creating an economy that is increasingly dependent on a steady tide of foreign investment. Because of the country's small size and high labor specialisation, industry and trade are the keys to Switzerland's economic livelihood.

Switzerland has achieved one of the highest per capita incomes in the world with low unemployment rates and a low budget deficit.

That all sounds pretty good to me, where can I sign up?
Old Aug 14, 2011 | 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by psoper

That all sounds pretty good to me, where can I sign up?
at your local airport.
Old Aug 14, 2011 | 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by irrational x
Its called fiduciary responsibility. The business has a legal obligation to maximize shareholder value. Paying someone $30/hr to stand there while a machine puts liquid into a bottle sounds like an inefficient business practice to me. If you hate capitalism you could always expatriate to Switzerland or something. Also: thanks for a link to such an unbiased news source.
It's fine if you don't agree with unions or paying people a decent living wage, but you don't mess with people's pensions. That's just f'd up and it's not the America I love.
Old Aug 14, 2011 | 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mattej
US labor is expensive, this elimination will help keep my alchohol prices down : )
Sorry for those who lost their jobs tho.
No, the elimination of these jobs will increase margins, not keep prices down. Competition is the one and only thing that keeps prices down.
Old Aug 14, 2011 | 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by psoper
Once again you live up to your screen name;

The economy of Switzerland is one of the world's most stable economies. Its policy of long-term monetary security and political stability has made Switzerland a safe haven for investors, creating an economy that is increasingly dependent on a steady tide of foreign investment. Because of the country's small size and high labor specialisation, industry and trade are the keys to Switzerland's economic livelihood.

Switzerland has achieved one of the highest per capita incomes in the world with low unemployment rates and a low budget deficit.

That all sounds pretty good to me, where can I sign up?
Thanks for copying and pasting the first paragraph of the wikipedia article entitled "The Economy of Switzerland" (link) to show us how much you know about international economics.

Clearly you did not understand my post. I was simply stating that there are plenty of alternative countries out there if an individual is massively butthurt about living in this one. Replace Switzerland with any country and you get the same effect...

thanks for playing though.
Old Aug 14, 2011 | 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Four vs Two
Competition is the one and only thing that keeps prices down.
You have clearly never taken an economics class. Allow me to introduce you to my good friends Supply and Demand.
Old Aug 15, 2011 | 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by irrational x
Thanks for copying and pasting the first paragraph of the wikipedia article entitled "The Economy of Switzerland" (link) to show us how much you know about international economics.

Clearly you did not understand my post. I was simply stating that there are plenty of alternative countries out there if an individual is massively butthurt about living in this one. Replace Switzerland with any country and you get the same effect...

thanks for playing though.
No I got it pretty clearly- the statement of your post was quite evident- in your abject ignorance, you think the broken financial system that is driving the US and much of the rest of the world towards another great depression is the greatest system in the world, so anyone who recognizes that it isn't should move someplace where things are worse.

Copying the intro to the wikipedia article was just faster and easier than extemporizing on the subject, but it does support my counter argument that the US is not the best place in the world economically speaking, and that it is you who clearly does not understand international economics.

I've been there several times and can tell you from personal experience that Switzerland is one of several examples of countries where well-regulated capitalism creates a higher standard of living and higher per capita income than the corrupt and broken oligarchy that has come to rule the US.

If you wanted to offer someone an alternative to capitalism, you could have suggested Denmark or Sweden, which actually have some socialism mixed in, but both of them also offer a higher standard of living than the US- OK here is another wikipedia page for you to look at next time you want to ship someone off-
List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you should try to pick a country below the US on one of these lists for maximum effect...

I won't even start with supply and demand, you know they did have econ classes with bigger numbers than 101 in front of them, but I guess you missed those...
Old Aug 15, 2011 | 07:56 AM
  #26  
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Very unfortunate situation. Defined benefit plans are very tricky. (I'd love to have one myself)

If there were underfunded pensions somewhere else in the company, they may have tried using your surplus to offset. Unless you are in a defined contribution plan like a 401k, there's a big risk that the surplus is going to get eaten up some way or another.

Very sorry to hear about the plant.

Jim
Old Aug 15, 2011 | 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by psoper
but it does support my counter argument that the US is not the best place in the world economically speaking, and that it is you who clearly does not understand international economics.
please re-read my post and point out exactly where i said that the US has the best system im the world...



oh thats right, i didnt.
Old Aug 15, 2011 | 08:49 AM
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This really has little to do with the US vs Switzerland...

I am referring to the actions of a specific company. Seizing pensions is not a capitalist vs socialist move... IMHO it's a violation of a contract.

I don't approve of Diageo's actions from an ethical standpoint; and I'm doing the most capitalist thing one can:
Giving my money to their competitors

Last edited by Lowend; Aug 15, 2011 at 10:58 AM.
Old Aug 15, 2011 | 09:24 AM
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IX picked a country, any country, other than the USA.
Old Aug 15, 2011 | 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Lowend
This really has little to do with the US vs Switzerland...

I am referring to the actions of a specific company. Seizing pensions is not a capitalist vs socialist move... IMHO it's a violation of a contract.

I don't approve of Diageo's actions from an ethical standpoint; and I'm doing the most capitalist thing one can:
Giving my money to their competitors
My point is that you cant really blame them (the whole US vs Switzerland thing was psoper trying to pwn me) for doing what they did. They have a legal responsibility to maximize shareholder value, failing to do-so opens them up to liability... and the cost of a shareholder lawsuit is a lot more than that of winding down a plant and dealing with 130 pissed off union workers.

its not right or wrong, its just reality.

Last edited by Irrational X; Aug 15, 2011 at 11:16 AM. Reason: fixed my idiot grammar



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