BART Publically Admits Its Absolescence...Still Can't be Bothered to Care...
03-17-2016, 09:17 AM
#1
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In Mother Russia...
Posts: 4,024
Car Info: ...zeh car drives you!
BART Publically Admits Its Absolescence...Still Can't be Bothered to Care...
Interesting brief article on Gawker where BART publicly admits (via Twitter of all places) that the system has long been obsolete after yet another delay apology...only to claim that there is no way they could have planned/predicted their current predicament, but their engineers are "really really smart!".
Really?! So no one could have predicted population of a major metropolitan city steadily growing over decades of development? Or may be building the system with some sort of redundancies and future upgrade-ability to begin with?
Or what about any access revenues seemingly going straight into union pockets instead of back into the system...aka BART strike 2 years ago.
/RANT
http://gawker.com/wow-finally-some-h...ent-1765405814
Really?! So no one could have predicted population of a major metropolitan city steadily growing over decades of development? Or may be building the system with some sort of redundancies and future upgrade-ability to begin with?
Or what about any access revenues seemingly going straight into union pockets instead of back into the system...aka BART strike 2 years ago.
/RANT
http://gawker.com/wow-finally-some-h...ent-1765405814
03-17-2016, 09:43 AM
#2
BART was built in the Mid 70's. My freaking grandfather cut the ribbon at the grand opening. He's dead now... RIP.
You're talking about 40 year old trains and systems with very very few upgrades over the years. They spend the least amount possible and continue to raise prices.
Why? Because their union walks all over them. They keep demanding and receiving raises. In the biggest recession in almost 100 years they got a 17% raise and went on strike because it wasn't enough.
It's B.S. You've got train operators that sit there and punch a couple buttons on 95% automated trains and collect 6 figure salaries.
That system needs a massive massive overhall and it's not going to happen the way things are going. So issues will continue to get worse.
Until someone blows a hole in the tunnel.
You're talking about 40 year old trains and systems with very very few upgrades over the years. They spend the least amount possible and continue to raise prices.
Why? Because their union walks all over them. They keep demanding and receiving raises. In the biggest recession in almost 100 years they got a 17% raise and went on strike because it wasn't enough.
It's B.S. You've got train operators that sit there and punch a couple buttons on 95% automated trains and collect 6 figure salaries.
That system needs a massive massive overhall and it's not going to happen the way things are going. So issues will continue to get worse.
Until someone blows a hole in the tunnel.
03-17-2016, 10:37 AM
#3
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In Mother Russia...
Posts: 4,024
Car Info: ...zeh car drives you!
^^^ Agreed. I would not be surprised if there are other serious issues as well besides just unions.
The one part that the tweets got right is that it will take DECADES for the system to be upgraded...but most likely if they start NOW and only bring it up to current capacity...at which point it will be obsolete yet again.
Can we not just get all of the hipsters and undocumented illegals that abuse San Francisco's sanctuary policies and liberal social programs to build everything in return? May be then they won't go around shooting people on the piers out of boredom
The one part that the tweets got right is that it will take DECADES for the system to be upgraded...but most likely if they start NOW and only bring it up to current capacity...at which point it will be obsolete yet again.
Can we not just get all of the hipsters and undocumented illegals that abuse San Francisco's sanctuary policies and liberal social programs to build everything in return? May be then they won't go around shooting people on the piers out of boredom
03-17-2016, 02:31 PM
#4
This state is cash poor and our public systems and repairs are garbage for many reasons. But one of the main ones is the large businesses/government agencies and unions that over inflate cost. You can only take so much from the tax payers before they start needing money back from the government. It's a broken system that's a long ways off from being fixed IF it ever can be at this point. We may have gone to far.
You get in with the right agency or union that will fight for you you're guaranteed raises for the rest of your life regardless of the reality of the economy and/or your personal performance. It's amazing when you're part of it... I was in the union for 8 years.
But it creates massive issues when guys can do **** jobs repairing roads because they know eventually they'll be back out there fixing them again... job security... pay.
Have bus washers in SF making $110k a year because they've been doing it for 30 years. Why stop?
BART is part of the system and it's a long ways off from being fixed. But if it was run correctly and they didn't sit on their hands for 30 years then it wouldn't be a problem. You have to do it over time... like a golf course or a ski resort or any other public business. You put away money or secure loans based on performance and value and you upgrade things over time. One year a new high speed quad. Couple years later new deck for the bar and upgrades to the cafeteria. Next year a new groomer or a few new sleds for the ground crew. Etc. You don't just go... o.k.... we haven't touched the resort in 35 years. Lets put in 6 quads. 2 new buildings and a gondola.
That's what BART is doing... or the position they put themselves in.
They should have been doing 1 or 2 things every couple years over time.
We're in for a rude awaking nation wide on bull**** like this. Bridge goes down because it hasn't been updated in 103 years and hasn't passed spec in over 20. No money to rebuild it because the construction crews need to pay 19 people to watch 3 work and they want $300m to build a tiny *** bridge. So you just shut it and say sorry.
There are thousands of bridges in this country on the verge of massive issue.
Blah blah... this **** pisses me off. Etc etc etc. People expected to be responsible... big bus and gov get to do wtf ever they want and say sorry... it was that dudes fault. I just got here.
You get in with the right agency or union that will fight for you you're guaranteed raises for the rest of your life regardless of the reality of the economy and/or your personal performance. It's amazing when you're part of it... I was in the union for 8 years.
But it creates massive issues when guys can do **** jobs repairing roads because they know eventually they'll be back out there fixing them again... job security... pay.
Have bus washers in SF making $110k a year because they've been doing it for 30 years. Why stop?
BART is part of the system and it's a long ways off from being fixed. But if it was run correctly and they didn't sit on their hands for 30 years then it wouldn't be a problem. You have to do it over time... like a golf course or a ski resort or any other public business. You put away money or secure loans based on performance and value and you upgrade things over time. One year a new high speed quad. Couple years later new deck for the bar and upgrades to the cafeteria. Next year a new groomer or a few new sleds for the ground crew. Etc. You don't just go... o.k.... we haven't touched the resort in 35 years. Lets put in 6 quads. 2 new buildings and a gondola.
That's what BART is doing... or the position they put themselves in.
They should have been doing 1 or 2 things every couple years over time.
We're in for a rude awaking nation wide on bull**** like this. Bridge goes down because it hasn't been updated in 103 years and hasn't passed spec in over 20. No money to rebuild it because the construction crews need to pay 19 people to watch 3 work and they want $300m to build a tiny *** bridge. So you just shut it and say sorry.
There are thousands of bridges in this country on the verge of massive issue.
Blah blah... this **** pisses me off. Etc etc etc. People expected to be responsible... big bus and gov get to do wtf ever they want and say sorry... it was that dudes fault. I just got here.
03-17-2016, 09:00 PM
#7
VIP Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 7,441
Car Info: 2018 Golf R Variant
BART was built in the Mid 70's. My freaking grandfather cut the ribbon at the grand opening. He's dead now... RIP.
You're talking about 40 year old trains and systems with very very few upgrades over the years. They spend the least amount possible and continue to raise prices.
Why? Because their union walks all over them. They keep demanding and receiving raises. In the biggest recession in almost 100 years they got a 17% raise and went on strike because it wasn't enough.
It's B.S. You've got train operators that sit there and punch a couple buttons on 95% automated trains and collect 6 figure salaries.
That system needs a massive massive overhall and it's not going to happen the way things are going. So issues will continue to get worse.
Until someone blows a hole in the tunnel.
You're talking about 40 year old trains and systems with very very few upgrades over the years. They spend the least amount possible and continue to raise prices.
Why? Because their union walks all over them. They keep demanding and receiving raises. In the biggest recession in almost 100 years they got a 17% raise and went on strike because it wasn't enough.
It's B.S. You've got train operators that sit there and punch a couple buttons on 95% automated trains and collect 6 figure salaries.
That system needs a massive massive overhall and it's not going to happen the way things are going. So issues will continue to get worse.
Until someone blows a hole in the tunnel.
This has been really surprising to me. I pay more taxes than someone I know in Sweden right now. Trying to figure it out but WTF.
I have a friend who rides MBTA every day who would solidly disagree, but maybe it's a recent thing. Delays and outages on a daily basis. Never been to Prague (heard great things).
03-17-2016, 10:08 PM
#8
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 4,300
Car Info: http://kiva.org/invitedby/brett4254
Maybe it just speaks for how poor Bay Area transit is, but when I went to Boston a few years back, I was shocked at how good it was.
Prague is insanely good, and DEEP. They used missile silo diggers to do the entrance/exit tunnels.
Prague is insanely good, and DEEP. They used missile silo diggers to do the entrance/exit tunnels.
03-18-2016, 09:29 AM
#9
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In Mother Russia...
Posts: 4,024
Car Info: ...zeh car drives you!
Here is how bad we have it...last year all my income came from an out-of-state consulting project; therefore, I paid non-California state taxes...which resulted in my paycheck being ~$600+ per MONTH higher. So it is ~$7,000+ in taxes alone before anything else to call CA home!
Unfortunately, I agree with this. BART sets a very low standard. Fore example, even with its 29 hour complete shut down couple days ago...DC's Metro is still amazing compared to BART.
The worst part is that BART does not even cover THAT much geographical area compared to all of the other mentioned systems and obviously does not run all of the time...
...yet it constantly gets fare and parking hikes with no return benefit. I.E. My Walnut Creek/Pleasant Hill station...round trip into SF with parking right now is ~$15 a day per person!!! Which then necessitates switching to Muni or catching a cab (bringing commute costs to ~$20-30 day)! While in Chicago, DC, NYC, etc I can take the train directly to where I need to go and walk just a couple blocks for 1/3 the cost.
I will probably be looking to relocate soon after seeing what my money can buy me in other 48 states
The worst part is that BART does not even cover THAT much geographical area compared to all of the other mentioned systems and obviously does not run all of the time...
...yet it constantly gets fare and parking hikes with no return benefit. I.E. My Walnut Creek/Pleasant Hill station...round trip into SF with parking right now is ~$15 a day per person!!! Which then necessitates switching to Muni or catching a cab (bringing commute costs to ~$20-30 day)! While in Chicago, DC, NYC, etc I can take the train directly to where I need to go and walk just a couple blocks for 1/3 the cost.
I will probably be looking to relocate soon after seeing what my money can buy me in other 48 states
03-18-2016, 11:28 AM
#10
I ride BART every day from San Bruno into SF. I have re-named it "Barely Above Rotting in Traffic" but it has gotten a LOT worse in the past 4 months. Delays every single day, and I have to believe the noise on board causes serious hearing damage. I have spent a good amount of time on Metro systems in London, NYC, Stockholm, Barcelona, Madrid, Chicago, Seattle and the Bay Area and I have never ever experienced anything as terrible as BART.
This has been really surprising to me. I pay more taxes than someone I know in Sweden right now. Trying to figure it out but WTF.
I have a friend who rides MBTA every day who would solidly disagree, but maybe it's a recent thing. Delays and outages on a daily basis. Never been to Prague (heard great things).
This has been really surprising to me. I pay more taxes than someone I know in Sweden right now. Trying to figure it out but WTF.
I have a friend who rides MBTA every day who would solidly disagree, but maybe it's a recent thing. Delays and outages on a daily basis. Never been to Prague (heard great things).
Everyone thought Arnold was insane with that train system he wanted to build... but frankly... it's a good idea if it can be done without private companies taking advantage of tax payers.
But I'd improve the city infrastructures first.
03-18-2016, 11:47 AM
#11
VIP Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 7,441
Car Info: 2018 Golf R Variant
Agreed. Other cities/states put a higher value on public transportation and actually maintain them. Which is funny because we're the hippy state that harps on everyone driving cars. We pass tons of legislation in regards to auto smog, fees, etc. But we don't bother to improve our public transportation systems. It's ridiculous.
Everyone thought Arnold was insane with that train system he wanted to build... but frankly... it's a good idea if it can be done without private companies taking advantage of tax payers.
But I'd improve the city infrastructures first.
Everyone thought Arnold was insane with that train system he wanted to build... but frankly... it's a good idea if it can be done without private companies taking advantage of tax payers.
But I'd improve the city infrastructures first.
03-18-2016, 10:55 PM
#12
Grunt problems. Options:
1. Find a job closer to home.
2. Move out of the plebeian poors. (Assuming east bay since 99% of all conservative anti-union propaganda and public transpo complaints originate from the 510/925.)
The problem is systemic at a municipal level and faults of failed transit should be directed upward to outside forces. The tax breaks given to large corporations fostered "build out not UP" urban sprawl. This makes most public transportation attempts a joke, outside of densely populated areas such as SF. The rest of the bay is a mix of parking lots, office parks and strip malls.
In any case, all transportation around the bay sucks. Too many people, poor planning, bad engineering. On the plus side Grow America funds have been slowly getting distributed (link). This has helped somewhat. Still, it'll take centralization to fix things.
1. Find a job closer to home.
2. Move out of the plebeian poors. (Assuming east bay since 99% of all conservative anti-union propaganda and public transpo complaints originate from the 510/925.)
The problem is systemic at a municipal level and faults of failed transit should be directed upward to outside forces. The tax breaks given to large corporations fostered "build out not UP" urban sprawl. This makes most public transportation attempts a joke, outside of densely populated areas such as SF. The rest of the bay is a mix of parking lots, office parks and strip malls.
In any case, all transportation around the bay sucks. Too many people, poor planning, bad engineering. On the plus side Grow America funds have been slowly getting distributed (link). This has helped somewhat. Still, it'll take centralization to fix things.
03-19-2016, 07:19 AM
#13
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 4,300
Car Info: http://kiva.org/invitedby/brett4254
I do have to wonder what the path forward is. The Bay Area has invested billions in extending the BART lines into San Jose, so the system isn't going away (as it shouldn't).
Maybe taking the San Jose Lightrail cars and using them instead?
I don't really know what's "outdated"
Maybe taking the San Jose Lightrail cars and using them instead?
I don't really know what's "outdated"
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mxman
Suby Shopping & Maintenance/Warranty
1
11-22-2003 10:55 PM