756
General Pimpin'
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lets talk stats
from his rookie('86) season til the '99 season bonds hit 445 HR's in 6973 at bats, that averages out to 31.7 HRs per season, and average of 1 HR for every 15.66 at bats. ok now in seasons '00-'04, he hit 258 HRs in 2122 at bats, an average of 1 HR every 8.22 at bats and an average of 51.6 HRs a year.. hmm noticing a trend? also, his hits per season average from 86-99 (143.57) and 00-04(144) are nearly identical. im not arguing about his hitting ability, he has always been a respectable hitter...but there came a point in his career where he wasnt hitting doubles and pop flys anymore, he was hitting HRs instead...add to the fact that he has admitted to "unknowingly" taking steroids.. and its a lock..whatever he took helped him hit the ball further, period.
edit, let me rephrase so my words are not taken out of context.whatever he took, helped him hit the ball harder AND further...
furthermore, i am a baseball fan, i think its kinda cool that records are broken in my time, i even went to a giants game last year and bonds even hit one that game, and the giants won the game in extra innings, it was an exciting game..but i am not a giants fan.. i am a baseball fan, but it would be pretty ignorant for someone to not question him when you look at what he has said to a grand jury and by looking at his stats.. they speak for themselves
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from his rookie('86) season til the '99 season bonds hit 445 HR's in 6973 at bats, that averages out to 31.7 HRs per season, and average of 1 HR for every 15.66 at bats. ok now in seasons '00-'04, he hit 258 HRs in 2122 at bats, an average of 1 HR every 8.22 at bats and an average of 51.6 HRs a year.. hmm noticing a trend? also, his hits per season average from 86-99 (143.57) and 00-04(144) are nearly identical. im not arguing about his hitting ability, he has always been a respectable hitter...but there came a point in his career where he wasnt hitting doubles and pop flys anymore, he was hitting HRs instead...add to the fact that he has admitted to "unknowingly" taking steroids.. and its a lock..whatever he took helped him hit the ball further, period.
edit, let me rephrase so my words are not taken out of context.whatever he took, helped him hit the ball harder AND further...
furthermore, i am a baseball fan, i think its kinda cool that records are broken in my time, i even went to a giants game last year and bonds even hit one that game, and the giants won the game in extra innings, it was an exciting game..but i am not a giants fan.. i am a baseball fan, but it would be pretty ignorant for someone to not question him when you look at what he has said to a grand jury and by looking at his stats.. they speak for themselves
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That was also the time he got a personal trainer and started lifting weights. It used to be that guys didn't lift weights to gain like that. Also in a point where it's natural to get bigger.
Not saying he didn't have some help...but his attitude towards hitting home runs changed at that point. He decided that he was getting overlooked because of guys hitting long ***** so he decided to add that to what he did. Not to mention a ball change and an overall view change on home runs in baseball at that time.
It's not just bonds. It wasn't JUST the juice.
That's my point.
He's being targeted out because he did the most with it but that's because it was already there. If anyone needs to be looked at it's that lazy self righteous piece of **** that's running baseball right now.
Oh....and....
babe ruths first 6 years.....steady rise to 29 home runs. Next year 54. His body, his position and his goals in baseball changed at that time.
Hank Aaron...always was consistant. Never more than 50. He was the real deal. Like Mays. Just a great one. There is a reason he was an all star 20 years in a row.
Does he deserve to remembered as a great player and the most consistant power hitter ever and a great home run hitter...yes.
So does bonds.
Different people different times.
my point isn't that he didn't do it. I'm not a retard. It's that there are lots of other factors.
Course I also feel like the man with the most hits EVER and one of the most impressive records and possibly unbreakable records should be in the hall of fame.
oh most definitely, its awesome that someone broke the record..he probably wouldve made the hall of fame anyway, like i said he has always been a respectable, clutch hitter not to mention he wasnt so bad in the outfield even tho he didnt have an arm, but he was never he was never really an outright power hitter til 99( injury plagued year) and 2000 til 04, and those are the years in question... lets say he continued on his pace from 86-99, he would be in the 600 range in HRs, career average would probably be around .300.. and he would be alot more respected as a player and a person, but because of all the dirt and off the field stuff that he may or may not have done..his image and many opinions of him have changed
General Pimpin'
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oh most definitely, its awesome that someone broke the record..he probably wouldve made the hall of fame anyway, like i said he has always been a respectable, clutch hitter not to mention he wasnt so bad in the outfield even tho he didnt have an arm, but he was never he was never really an outright power hitter til 99( injury plagued year) and 2000 til 04, and those are the years in question... lets say he continued on his pace from 86-99, he would be in the 600 range in HRs, career average would probably be around .300.. and he would be alot more respected as a player and a person, but because of all the dirt and off the field stuff that he may or may not have done..his image and many opinions of him have changed
I wish he would have just done it naturally. His numbers would ahve increased a bit and he'd still be around 660 I bet. And he probably would be able to play a couple more years than he will this way..in the field.
oh...and brucelee....bench is good. arms decent....more impressed with your calf numbers as I'm a leg guy myself and that **** is impressive.
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I will give bonds the credit where credit is due...
ok hes an amazing HITTER. i won't give him credit for homeruns. period. He was on the juice and in turn had a more powerful swing.. YES it takes talent to make contact.. but.. with the juice he has the power to make that "contact" become something it wouldn't have been... IE a homerun.
ok hes an amazing HITTER. i won't give him credit for homeruns. period. He was on the juice and in turn had a more powerful swing.. YES it takes talent to make contact.. but.. with the juice he has the power to make that "contact" become something it wouldn't have been... IE a homerun.
his walk #s is a direct corelation to his power numbers going through the roof...avg of 174 per season in 00-04 when he was hitting nearly 52 hrs per season , vs 102 when he was hitting almost 32 in 86-99..also remember, 144 hits per season in 86-99 but only 32 were homers, there 112 others that were not, in 00-04 he was hitting 52 hrs (avg) and 92 scattered base hits, thats a pretty substantial swing. in 01' when he hit 73 hrs, he had 156 total base hits...so as i said before, when earlier in his career he was hitting doubles off the wall or hitting flyballs.. they were now leaving the park as HRs in 00-04 thus raising his average pretty substantially
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Seriously....
His attitude hasn't done **** to derail that organization. The organization did that. They have been sitting on their butts collecting money for banking on a new ballpark and bonds to sell it out.
Not true??? How much does attendance go down when they announce he's not playing.....ANYWHERE. How much does it go up when he visits other ball parks?
Everyone knew going into this season the team was going to suck. Shoot I know 4 people that bought season tickets for two reason only....watch bonds break the record...go to the allstar team. The ORGANIZATION knew they'd make plenty of money this year and winning wouldn't mean anything but a few ticket sales for the play offs. The organization has been overpaying for old players for a long time.
They don't care. They just wanted to ride bonds.
Soon as he's gone they'll get back on track and do fine because they'll have to make their money winning.
THE ORGANIZATION killed the team not bonds attitude.
Zito???WTF?????
As for 5 years.....I'd bet they'll make the playoffs next year...maybe 2. No longer.
Why? Because they are willing to spend the money. They have a good ball park. They have good fans. People like to play here. Bonds won't be taking up $14million or more a year. The old guys will get scratched off. They'll bring in some more tallent to add to their OVERPAID zito. And because the don't have **** this year and I bet they go on a winning streak to finish the season.
His attitude hasn't done **** to derail that organization. The organization did that. They have been sitting on their butts collecting money for banking on a new ballpark and bonds to sell it out.
Not true??? How much does attendance go down when they announce he's not playing.....ANYWHERE. How much does it go up when he visits other ball parks?
Everyone knew going into this season the team was going to suck. Shoot I know 4 people that bought season tickets for two reason only....watch bonds break the record...go to the allstar team. The ORGANIZATION knew they'd make plenty of money this year and winning wouldn't mean anything but a few ticket sales for the play offs. The organization has been overpaying for old players for a long time.
They don't care. They just wanted to ride bonds.
Soon as he's gone they'll get back on track and do fine because they'll have to make their money winning.
THE ORGANIZATION killed the team not bonds attitude.
Zito???WTF?????
As for 5 years.....I'd bet they'll make the playoffs next year...maybe 2. No longer.
Why? Because they are willing to spend the money. They have a good ball park. They have good fans. People like to play here. Bonds won't be taking up $14million or more a year. The old guys will get scratched off. They'll bring in some more tallent to add to their OVERPAID zito. And because the don't have **** this year and I bet they go on a winning streak to finish the season.
They couldnt sign anyone because they didnt want to play with Bonds. Hell, Carlos Lee turned down an offer that would have given him more money than the deal he signed with Houston. Not to mention their best bet at replacing Bonds was Vlad, who again did not want to play in SF because of the way Barry treats his teammates.
Also, with the A.J. deal, they were forced to hedge their future to try and give Barry one last chance at a winner.
There is also the Jeff Kent ordeal.
And my personal favorite, the day he arrived in SF, he marched into a pitchers meeting and started pointing out all of the pitchers he had homered off of.
I would put money on the Giants goin under .500 next year, and dead last in the division. Who's the answer now... Andrew Jones??
Last edited by Ipecac; Aug 8, 2007 at 01:02 PM.
General Pimpin'
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From: Knee deep in beer. subabrew crew, ca.
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I'd be curious to find out if in fact the only reason guys didn't go there was because they didn't like barry.
Or if it had more to do with wanting to be...THE man on any given team. Or other reasons mixed in.
as for next year....they'll probably spend the year building for 2009. There are some decent players available next year and a lot possibly in 2009.
Ramon Castro wouldn't be a bad guy to pick up.
Weaver. Few other pitchers.
Jermaine Dye.
jones/hunter in center
Arod
Adam Dunn
etc.
they'll be out there and the giants will have money to spend.
biggest kicker for the giants will be their crappy farm team. There best prospects are 2 years off. They're gonna have to steal some from the a's or diamondbacks.
I don't see them being a bottom team for long.
Or if it had more to do with wanting to be...THE man on any given team. Or other reasons mixed in.
as for next year....they'll probably spend the year building for 2009. There are some decent players available next year and a lot possibly in 2009.
Ramon Castro wouldn't be a bad guy to pick up.
Weaver. Few other pitchers.
Jermaine Dye.
jones/hunter in center
Arod
Adam Dunn
etc.
they'll be out there and the giants will have money to spend.
biggest kicker for the giants will be their crappy farm team. There best prospects are 2 years off. They're gonna have to steal some from the a's or diamondbacks.
I don't see them being a bottom team for long.
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Arizona 63 51 .553 -
San Diego 61 51 .545 1.0
Colorado 58 54 .518 4.0
LA Dodgers 58 54 .518 4.0
San Francisco 48 63 .432 13.5
756 Homeruns, 0 Rings. Homeruns are nice and all but his attitude has completely derailed that organization. The fans will realize just how bad this team is now that there is no homerun chase to watch. Bonds retires, and next year is rock bottom for this franchise. Get use to losing, because it is going to take 5 years for the Giants to get competitive again.
yay
Seriously....
His attitude hasn't done **** to derail that organization. The organization did that. They have been sitting on their butts collecting money for banking on a new ballpark and bonds to sell it out.
Not true??? How much does attendance go down when they announce he's not playing.....ANYWHERE. How much does it go up when he visits other ball parks?
Everyone knew going into this season the team was going to suck. Shoot I know 4 people that bought season tickets for two reason only....watch bonds break the record...go to the allstar team. The ORGANIZATION knew they'd make plenty of money this year and winning wouldn't mean anything but a few ticket sales for the play offs. The organization has been overpaying for old players for a long time.
They don't care. They just wanted to ride bonds.
Soon as he's gone they'll get back on track and do fine because they'll have to make their money winning.
THE ORGANIZATION killed the team not bonds attitude.
Zito???WTF?????
As for 5 years.....I'd bet they'll make the playoffs next year...maybe 2. No longer.
Why? Because they are willing to spend the money. They have a good ball park. They have good fans. People like to play here. Bonds won't be taking up $14million or more a year. The old guys will get scratched off. They'll bring in some more tallent to add to their OVERPAID zito. And because the don't have **** this year and I bet they go on a winning streak to finish the season.
His attitude hasn't done **** to derail that organization. The organization did that. They have been sitting on their butts collecting money for banking on a new ballpark and bonds to sell it out.
Not true??? How much does attendance go down when they announce he's not playing.....ANYWHERE. How much does it go up when he visits other ball parks?
Everyone knew going into this season the team was going to suck. Shoot I know 4 people that bought season tickets for two reason only....watch bonds break the record...go to the allstar team. The ORGANIZATION knew they'd make plenty of money this year and winning wouldn't mean anything but a few ticket sales for the play offs. The organization has been overpaying for old players for a long time.
They don't care. They just wanted to ride bonds.
Soon as he's gone they'll get back on track and do fine because they'll have to make their money winning.
THE ORGANIZATION killed the team not bonds attitude.
Zito???WTF?????
As for 5 years.....I'd bet they'll make the playoffs next year...maybe 2. No longer.
Why? Because they are willing to spend the money. They have a good ball park. They have good fans. People like to play here. Bonds won't be taking up $14million or more a year. The old guys will get scratched off. They'll bring in some more tallent to add to their OVERPAID zito. And because the don't have **** this year and I bet they go on a winning streak to finish the season.
bonds attitude = if i cant hit home runs today i wont play
good job
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I want the Dodger and A's fans to come back in here and tell me they didn't cheer for Adrian Beltre, Eric Gagne, Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco when they played for those teams because if you did...you're a hypocrite.
Regarding the legitimacy of the record I find it interesting that no one ever brings up that Aaron played in 2 VERY hitter friendly parks and still took more ABs to hit 755 than Bonds did. Couple that with the fact that Bonds has played against more specialized pitching than Aaron, in 2 tremendously pitcher friendly parks and AGAINST pitchers who were also juicing and it is retarded to try and put an asterisk next to the number or say it isn't legitimate since THERE ARE TO MANY VARIABLES INVOLVED.
Regarding the legitimacy of the record I find it interesting that no one ever brings up that Aaron played in 2 VERY hitter friendly parks and still took more ABs to hit 755 than Bonds did. Couple that with the fact that Bonds has played against more specialized pitching than Aaron, in 2 tremendously pitcher friendly parks and AGAINST pitchers who were also juicing and it is retarded to try and put an asterisk next to the number or say it isn't legitimate since THERE ARE TO MANY VARIABLES INVOLVED.
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I'd be curious to find out if in fact the only reason guys didn't go there was because they didn't like barry.
Or if it had more to do with wanting to be...THE man on any given team. Or other reasons mixed in.
as for next year....they'll probably spend the year building for 2009. There are some decent players available next year and a lot possibly in 2009.
Ramon Castro wouldn't be a bad guy to pick up.
Weaver. Few other pitchers.
Jermaine Dye.
jones/hunter in center
Arod
Adam Dunn
etc.
they'll be out there and the giants will have money to spend.
biggest kicker for the giants will be their crappy farm team. There best prospects are 2 years off. They're gonna have to steal some from the a's or diamondbacks.
I don't see them being a bottom team for long.
Or if it had more to do with wanting to be...THE man on any given team. Or other reasons mixed in.
as for next year....they'll probably spend the year building for 2009. There are some decent players available next year and a lot possibly in 2009.
Ramon Castro wouldn't be a bad guy to pick up.
Weaver. Few other pitchers.
Jermaine Dye.
jones/hunter in center
Arod
Adam Dunn
etc.
they'll be out there and the giants will have money to spend.
biggest kicker for the giants will be their crappy farm team. There best prospects are 2 years off. They're gonna have to steal some from the a's or diamondbacks.
I don't see them being a bottom team for long.
A-Rod is going to stay a Yankee.
Hunter is mostlikely going to a team near his home, Rangers. Expect him to go back to 25/80/.270/.330.
Dye wants to stay with the Sox and they have publicly stated that they want to spend money to contend next year.
Weaver.. come on now. They should have never signed Zito, saved that money and went after this years big catch, Santana.
Adam Dunn can rake, it seams he wants to go to the east coast though.
They do need to load up on some prospects, but they dont have anything to deal out. Everyone is old, and they arent going to part with any of their good young arms.