FPGreen and FPRed
06-13-2005, 08:20 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brownsville, Texas
Posts: 279
Car Info: 2005 STi
FPGreen and FPRed
i have a question and was wondering if anyone can help me out.
do both of these turbo's require built up motors. what im trying to say can the stock block on an sti hold enough power for both of these turbo's to maybe around 17-19 psi daily driver? im sure going 20 psi or more would really be doing harm and the motor would probably blow without upgraded internals.
can anyone share there Knowledge about this.
Thanks
do both of these turbo's require built up motors. what im trying to say can the stock block on an sti hold enough power for both of these turbo's to maybe around 17-19 psi daily driver? im sure going 20 psi or more would really be doing harm and the motor would probably blow without upgraded internals.
can anyone share there Knowledge about this.
Thanks
06-13-2005, 08:35 AM
#2
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I gotta have more cow bell!!!!
Posts: 9,198
Car Info: 05 STi
06-13-2005, 12:56 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brownsville, Texas
Posts: 279
Car Info: 2005 STi
utec, perrin fmic, perrin injectors, perrin big maf, fuel pump.. well these are just what i plan on putting in if i get the green. already have the utec and fuel pump. buying stuff in pieces.
am i missing anything?
am i missing anything?
08-29-2005, 06:02 AM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 31
I have an FPgreen, Tial wastegate/ 780cc ject/FMIC/walbro pump/Perrin fuel rail/ downpipe and more, i get 20 lbs of boost@ 5.5 to 6K rpms, once the boost kicks in i allready have to shift to 2nd.....it sucks for 8th of a mile tracks, but i guess its better for quarter. sad thing is there is no quarter mile track near where i live. Is it possible for me to get boost sooner?
edit: 2.0 engine 2002 subie.
edit: 2.0 engine 2002 subie.
Last edited by SabubaruB; 08-29-2005 at 06:27 AM.
08-29-2005, 02:19 PM
#13
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Moved to Portland, OR
Posts: 376
Car Info: 2005 Black WRX STI
Boost isn't everything
Originally Posted by 1reguL8NSTi
You can run it on a stock engine with ease assuming you run the stated 17-19 psi..........*disclaimer* boost is addictive.
The reason I say this is 2 fold.
1) Enigine reliability is dependent on more than just cylinder pressure.
2) Timing and AF rato are critical and when brought into a perfect ballance, you car can take alot of boost.
You have both a HP curve and a torque curve - the curves are build around A/F ratios, timimg and boost. Timimg and AF ratio change the pitch of the curve and can move the max (HP/Torque) up or down the rev range while boost is an amplifier. It moves HP/Torque up and down, shifting the entire curve up with more boost.
Detonation is the bad guy here. A massive amount of energy can be moved through the STI block if all of the pistons are moving up and down (side to side) at the right time. If you start to detonate, all of the engine components will move against each other and fail or melt if its bad enough.
An example for you. Give me a stock turbo - I increase timing, lean out the mixture and blow pistons out of the hood of the car at 14 psi - who cares what the boost pressure was, you now owe a tunner shop 4500 for the upgraded forged pistons and engine rebuild that will fail again if you keep the maps the same as before.
Here is my point. Don't discount the strength of the stock internals when it comes to manifold and cylinder pressure. At the same time don't forget how delicate they can be if your tuning sucks. The stock components are not built to run at a AF ratio of 11:1 but huge HP can be achieved at much more concervative levels.
I just put 80% down on the FP Red, Perrin Front mount and accesories. I expect to make about 340 whp at about 22 psi and a conservative AF ratio on 92 pump.
I would be more worried about your drive train. I have seen way more guys show up at the shop with their stock clutch toasted, they replace the clutch at show up the next day with bent and broken axles. The STI is not a drag car, you can build it to be one but I say stay with the true essence of the car and run it fast on the twisties.
Just my 93 cents.
08-30-2005, 04:32 AM
#14
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lastweek Lane - Watertown, NY
Posts: 10,133
Car Info: 02WRXpseudoSTiWannabeWagon
Originally Posted by depdivr
You would be suprised how much the STI can take and still run reliably. I would challenge to say that you can easily push 23 psi and not have a problem.
The reason I say this is 2 fold.
1) Enigine reliability is dependent on more than just cylinder pressure.
2) Timing and AF rato are critical and when brought into a perfect ballance, you car can take alot of boost.
You have both a HP curve and a torque curve - the curves are build around A/F ratios, timimg and boost. Timimg and AF ratio change the pitch of the curve and can move the max (HP/Torque) up or down the rev range while boost is an amplifier. It moves HP/Torque up and down, shifting the entire curve up with more boost.
Detonation is the bad guy here. A massive amount of energy can be moved through the STI block if all of the pistons are moving up and down (side to side) at the right time. If you start to detonate, all of the engine components will move against each other and fail or melt if its bad enough.
An example for you. Give me a stock turbo - I increase timing, lean out the mixture and blow pistons out of the hood of the car at 14 psi - who cares what the boost pressure was, you now owe a tunner shop 4500 for the upgraded forged pistons and engine rebuild that will fail again if you keep the maps the same as before.
Here is my point. Don't discount the strength of the stock internals when it comes to manifold and cylinder pressure. At the same time don't forget how delicate they can be if your tuning sucks. The stock components are not built to run at a AF ratio of 11:1 but huge HP can be achieved at much more concervative levels.
I just put 80% down on the FP Red, Perrin Front mount and accesories. I expect to make about 340 whp at about 22 psi and a conservative AF ratio on 92 pump.
I would be more worried about your drive train. I have seen way more guys show up at the shop with their stock clutch toasted, they replace the clutch at show up the next day with bent and broken axles. The STI is not a drag car, you can build it to be one but I say stay with the true essence of the car and run it fast on the twisties.
Just my 93 cents.
The reason I say this is 2 fold.
1) Enigine reliability is dependent on more than just cylinder pressure.
2) Timing and AF rato are critical and when brought into a perfect ballance, you car can take alot of boost.
You have both a HP curve and a torque curve - the curves are build around A/F ratios, timimg and boost. Timimg and AF ratio change the pitch of the curve and can move the max (HP/Torque) up or down the rev range while boost is an amplifier. It moves HP/Torque up and down, shifting the entire curve up with more boost.
Detonation is the bad guy here. A massive amount of energy can be moved through the STI block if all of the pistons are moving up and down (side to side) at the right time. If you start to detonate, all of the engine components will move against each other and fail or melt if its bad enough.
An example for you. Give me a stock turbo - I increase timing, lean out the mixture and blow pistons out of the hood of the car at 14 psi - who cares what the boost pressure was, you now owe a tunner shop 4500 for the upgraded forged pistons and engine rebuild that will fail again if you keep the maps the same as before.
Here is my point. Don't discount the strength of the stock internals when it comes to manifold and cylinder pressure. At the same time don't forget how delicate they can be if your tuning sucks. The stock components are not built to run at a AF ratio of 11:1 but huge HP can be achieved at much more concervative levels.
I just put 80% down on the FP Red, Perrin Front mount and accesories. I expect to make about 340 whp at about 22 psi and a conservative AF ratio on 92 pump.
I would be more worried about your drive train. I have seen way more guys show up at the shop with their stock clutch toasted, they replace the clutch at show up the next day with bent and broken axles. The STI is not a drag car, you can build it to be one but I say stay with the true essence of the car and run it fast on the twisties.
Just my 93 cents.
I broke a ringland and I had tuned my 257 to a pretty conservative, no-knock (that I was seeing with my UTEC) tune. I really didn't see any knock and further, I didn't see any signs that I broke a piston besides a small increase in blow-by. Comptest showed 80psi in #4. My guess is that timing was too high.
Due to all of that, but tempered by what I see over in Nasioc Proven Power Bragging, my feeling is that the stock internals can hold quite a bit of power when well tuned, but beefing-up your internals is good insurance.
08-30-2005, 09:00 AM
#15
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Moved to Portland, OR
Posts: 376
Car Info: 2005 Black WRX STI
I definitly don't disagree. Anything that you can do to make your car stronger is going to help you out in the long run. Personally, I dream at night about a JDM legacy closed block stroked to 2.8L, forged pistons, knife edged forged crank, 33 psi boost and everything that goes along with it... bummer I can't afford it... yet.
Just an FYI, I am just a regular guy. I had most of my tuning done through GT Autosports in Rancho Cucamunga CA and now that I have moved up to the Portland Oregon Area, Matrix Integrated and PDX Tuning are helping with the fine touches.
My point in saying this is that having a very well tuned Subaru is critical. My car is most likly pulling over 400 HP at the crank. Thats over 100 HP per cylinder - compare that to other cars, we are really running these engines at peak performance - they can do it (the marvels of Japanese engineering) but they better be tuned perfectly. Even stock STIs are pulling serious HP, this is nothing to scoff at!
Here is my recomendation to ANYONE on this forum. Pay the money to have the car tunned right. You already spent 30,000 plus for your STI or 20,000 plus for your REX. Another couple thousand in tuning may save you alot in the long run.
Remember, the WRX ECU is one of the best in the industry, maybe the best. Even a cold air intake will cause the ECU to back off on timing and increase mixture - result - you just spent 250.00 on an intake that makes your car go slower! My opinion - get the reflash first. Its $600 to $750 bucks out of your pocket that will give you more HP than any other mod I can think of (with a good tuner).
Good Thread though.
Just an FYI, I am just a regular guy. I had most of my tuning done through GT Autosports in Rancho Cucamunga CA and now that I have moved up to the Portland Oregon Area, Matrix Integrated and PDX Tuning are helping with the fine touches.
My point in saying this is that having a very well tuned Subaru is critical. My car is most likly pulling over 400 HP at the crank. Thats over 100 HP per cylinder - compare that to other cars, we are really running these engines at peak performance - they can do it (the marvels of Japanese engineering) but they better be tuned perfectly. Even stock STIs are pulling serious HP, this is nothing to scoff at!
Here is my recomendation to ANYONE on this forum. Pay the money to have the car tunned right. You already spent 30,000 plus for your STI or 20,000 plus for your REX. Another couple thousand in tuning may save you alot in the long run.
Remember, the WRX ECU is one of the best in the industry, maybe the best. Even a cold air intake will cause the ECU to back off on timing and increase mixture - result - you just spent 250.00 on an intake that makes your car go slower! My opinion - get the reflash first. Its $600 to $750 bucks out of your pocket that will give you more HP than any other mod I can think of (with a good tuner).
Good Thread though.