And you all though that EVO will be the coolest 4-banger is US next year. Front and rear Brembo's, Recaro seats, 271hp and HID headlights. Bah! That WAS the coolest car for less than 4 days, since EVO was announced. Today, the details on the 2004 WRX STi became available and they are impressive. DCCD, 2.5L Turbo, HID's, Brembo's and much more. The only thing left out was the price.

Please follow this link to find out more about the 2004 WRX STi.

http://impreza.subaru.com/microsites/impreza/wrxsti/wrxsti.jsp

All we need to do now is wait...

Next year will be great for all us car freaks. EVO, WRX STi, RX8 and many more cool cars will once again hit the North American shores.

Whoo-hoooo!

Is the US the only one to get the 2.5 engine? Damn, subaru stepped it up. I wonder what turbo they are going to use for the 2.5 and if it will have the twin scroll turbo. This will make the evo look like crap.

Jay

Is it twin scroll, is it closed deck? I want an engine swap already. How about the center diff? What is the ratio? How about the rear end?

And the redline? Too many questions.

anyone know how much is it? did you say its coming in 2004? not this year?

Where's the 300HP wagon???

edit: the new lenses are so beautiful, me likey :D

All I have to say is 2.5 :D

Of course what is the compression ratio?

This car is going to rape everything else on the road, then turn around, run it over, and rape it again.

OH HELL YEAH BAYBEE! Looks like the wife will be getting an STI for X-mas. I'm keeping the 12 sec 02' model for myself, well until I can mod the STI sufficiently enuf.

Doesn't sound like it has a twin-scroll, and the same kind of semi-closed deck as the EJ20, with AVCS of course.

Originally posted by StankFootZ
This car is going to rape everything else on the road, then turn around, run it over, and rape it again.



oh my

According to the NAIAS coverage at http://autoshow.msn.com/autoshow2003/article.aspx?xml=Subaru pricing will be in the low 30's.

Numbers will be limited to 4,000-5,000 annually, he said. No final price has been set, but Adcock said it’s likely to be in the low $30,000s.

will STI be in Canada?

Sure it will!

When I put mine on the Scotia Prince Ferry from Maine and drive b*lls out all around Noca Scotia!

200 dollar speeding ticket in Canada won't cost me as much here in the States...

just for giggles, what are you expecting the 1/4 time to be?? low low low 13's? high 12's maybe, goly gee batman!!


Noah

Originally posted by illmatic
This will make the evo look like crap.

Assuming that all the performance numbers released by Subaru and Mitsubishi are acurate, it looks like the STi will indeed be king of the AWD turbos. But, I'm very interested to see what the final pricing will be like. If the STi comes out at (for example) $32,000, what will you be able to do to an Evo for the additional $3-4k? I don't really have a brand preference, and am more interested in buying the car that gives me the most for the money (since I'm not planning on buying for another year or so, anyway). It was a disappointment to not get the ACD on the Evo, so I hope the STi won't be too expensive. It should be very interesting to see how the real world performance numbers stack up on these cars (once they're both actually on the market).

Originally posted by solitaire
Assuming that all the performance numbers released by Subaru and Mitsubishi are acurate, it looks like the STi will indeed be king of the AWD turbos. But, I'm very interested to see what the final pricing will be like. If the STi comes out at (for example) $32,000, what will you be able to do to an Evo for the additional $3-4k? I don't really have a brand preference, and am more interested in buying the car that gives me the most for the money (since I'm not planning on buying for another year or so, anyway). It was a disappointment to not get the ACD on the Evo, so I hope the STi won't be too expensive. It should be very interesting to see how the real world performance numbers stack up on these cars (once they're both actually on the market).

even if the extra 3-4k can get u aftermarket mod to be same spec for the evo and sti I still buy sti , simple sti overall is better quality well made and not to mention the sti already at 300 hp is all underwarranty..

this is so sweet, the redline is at 9000rpm and whenever you switch on the car, the tach meter will swing to the redline for showing off the power :)

From the subaru website, the specs are impressive and i'm pretty sure mitsubishi regretted every decision they have made about their Evo, maybe they'll fire their marketing analyst who said all the funky computer system wont be profitable at this side of the world.

GO Subaru!
the question is, to get it this year or wait for one year???

The 2.5-liter horizontally opposed ("boxer") four-cylinder engine is based on a specially reinforced "semi-closed deck" engine block with forged aluminum alloy pistons, forged high-carbon steel connecting rods and sodium filled exhaust valves. This advanced powerplant incorporates Subaru AVCS (Active Valve Control System) variable valve timing technology to optimize the engine's volumetric efficiency throughout the rev band. This is the first application of this technology on a Subaru in North America. The large capacity intercooler includes a manually operated water spray feature to provide additional cooling.

semi-closed and AVCS on 2.5 liter!
still can't believe it's a 2.5 and 300ps. crazy!

Yippeeee ! I can't wait for someone to wreck it... so I can put those goodies in the Super OBS :lol:

BBS and Potenza RE070 too...
US market will never be the same from now on.
It will be the hottest performance market in the world with EVO, STi, RX8, GTR, M3, GT3......
I bet Honda is thinking about bringing typeR again right about now.

THE CAR IS SWEET!! but my concern is that the engine might be a lil bit too heavy... what they should've done is to boost the EJ20 internally instead of increasing the displacement... i would say the engine gained about 100lb but maybe is worth it for 300hp... i think i will keep my 2003 REX for another 2-3 years until they come out with a new one coz i already done too much things to it that i can not just give it up for a heavier car... besides is like 10,000 more than the WRX... well just a though... =)

The specs look awesome looks like I'll be trading up. And on top of this a B4 type legacy in a year from now.

this is soooo amazing. i am in complete awe...........wow.

2.5l engine swap.....mmmm...how much do you think it would cost to buy one direct? or perhaps out of a wrecked

and lets not forget a 6 speed:D


and im serious, because i will start saving up now.

Originally posted by StankFootZ
This car is going to rape everything else on the road, then turn around, run it over, and rape it again.

you do know you just created a classic quote for the car.. mind if I copy it on my site thanks

OMG!! I think my heart just skipped a few beats. I've gotta get rid of my car..... I NEED THE NEW STi. This car is gonna WHOP!! some major arse. Subaru finally listened to all the enthusiasts.

Originally posted by EJ20STi
THE CAR IS SWEET!! but my concern is that the engine might be a lil bit too heavy... what they should've done is to boost the EJ20 internally instead of increasing the displacement... i would say the engine gained about 100lb but maybe is worth it for 300hp... i think i will keep my 2003 REX for another 2-3 years until they come out with a new one coz i already done too much things to it that i can not just give it up for a heavier car... besides is like 10,000 more than the WRX... well just a though... =)
They wanted to make a real splash and set it apart from the WRX, 300 hp / torque among many many other things will make that happen. The increase in displacement allows for easy hp gains without having to tune it aggressively while maintaining the U.S. standards for emissions and octane availabilty.
Tom..

i think i just busted one!




With all the goodies i hope the price isnt gonna be too high. and any word on how many of these will be sold here in the US?

Originally posted by syahm
this is so sweet, the redline is at 9000rpm and whenever you switch on the car, the tach meter will swing to the redline for showing off the power :) http://impreza.subaru.com/microsites/impreza/wrxsti/images/sti_full/01.jpg

This pic makes the redline look more like 8k or less, not 9k.

Originally posted by Sloppy Joe
They wanted to make a real splash and set it apart from the WRX, 300 hp / torque among many many other things will make that happen. The increase in displacement allows for easy hp gains without having to tune it aggressively while maintaining the U.S. standards for emissions and octane availabilty.
Tom..

5000 to 6000. The number is still not decided..

Originally posted by EJ20STi
THE CAR IS SWEET!! but my concern is that the engine might be a lil bit too heavy... what they should've done is to boost the EJ20 internally instead of increasing the displacement... i would say the engine gained about 100lb but maybe is worth it for 300hp... i think i will keep my 2003 REX for another 2-3 years until they come out with a new one coz i already done too much things to it that i can not just give it up for a heavier car... besides is like 10,000 more than the WRX... well just a though... =)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

100lbs From what I understand is equal to about 6hp. that's a pretty small handicap. And you do get alot of extra car for ten k more.

Originally posted by Sloppy Joe
They wanted to make a real splash and set it apart from the WRX, 300 hp / torque among many many other things will make that happen. The increase in displacement allows for easy hp gains without having to tune it aggressively while maintaining the U.S. standards for emissions and octane availabilty.
Tom..
I totally agree with you
I think they had no choice but to use EJ25 to achive 280ps range while meeting US emission standard and fuel situation.
It's pretty amazing EVO8 is LEV considering it's 271 from 2.0 turbo.

I can't believe its coming in March...thats less than 3 Months away!

Thought it was March of 2004? Tell me Im wrong, PLEASE!!!

I'm pretty sure they didn't release the website a year in advance when the WRX came out. ;)

This car is going to rape everything else on the road, then turn around, run it over, and rape it again.
*************

I applaud your enthusiasm, but, using the image of rape as a grand, bold, and positive thing is simply bad form.

Now, about the STi...WOW!
That came from left field. Is 2.5 litres allowed in rally?

T

Rape makes me think of dirty, ugly, sweaty aggression... Take a look at that car and spec sheet then tell me it's not a big, ugly, aggressive monster. (or better yet, just look at the scoop!) 300hp T/I 2.5L boxer engine!?!?! Yes, (PC or not) rape is the appropriate term to describe what that car will do to the competition.

:)

For Sale ...Slightly modified 2002 Platinum silver WRX.
Need to make room in garage for STI
Also for sale...3 bedroom 2.5 bath home with full landscaping in northern ca. once divorce proceedings begin upon discovery by wife of plans to buy soon to be released STI

Well, I guess we differ on what is cool.
I think the car is aggressive, powerful, and a tour de force of technology, which is decidedly not ugly, dirty, or sweaty. Whatever.

I notice that they don't show the new interior other than the rear seats for the WRX. I can't tell if the new material is part leather, pleather, or some type of cordura. Also, no comments on whether there will be a sunroof.
I have seen picts showing newly styled seats which look really cool and comfy but not on the official website. There was a description showing that the 2.0 WRX engine wil have 9.0-1 compression, however, the hp and torque numbers are the same. If indeed the compression has been raised then that indicates a greater power mod potential.

This 2.5 config isn't allowed in rally racing is it? I notice that this engine is specific to the North American market. Are we finally getting something that the rest of the world won't get when it comes to cool cars? :)
What engine is in the new STi overseas?

T

Originally posted by 04BlackWRX
I can't believe its coming in March...thats less than 3 Months away!


Please read more carefully

March is the redisigned WRX not the STi

I think the car is aggressive, powerful, and a tour de force of technology, which is decidedly not ugly, dirty, or sweaty. Whatever.


I wouldnt say ugly, but it does get me hot and bothered, and I would definately get it dirty!

As far as the engine goes everyone else probably gets a 3.0 since the US never gets the best. LOL

I think the 2.5 in Rally is ok i think but its already at the 300hp limit.

I think we are on the same page... The performace related Impreza's have always been considered ugly and aggresive, there's no denying that. I like that look (and style of cars in general which seem pretty raw and primal)... just not 2002-03 round headlights. ;)

2.0 is the limit for WRC and that is what the rest of the world has in the STi (and new STi as far as I know). They have to sell a certain number of cars in that trim to homologate the car into rally usage. They easily fufill that with the ***/Euro market so they can do whatever they want in US.

hey

WOW

ok. after the evo debut i was actually thinking about switching camps. no more. for sure. 2.5 liters!!!!!!!

i am so happy right now.

one is blue please subaru...
first, advan 2's, then a slew of guages, then tinted windoes, then a EBC, then a trip to vishnu, then.....;)

josh

PS the STi will be released in July is what the article said. so only a few more months to wait....

Though I follow WRC, I am no expert. But I do know the basic engine rules do prohibit anything over 2.0 liters.

I personally think folks are on the right track here regarding the use of the EJ25 for the US market as a means to obtain both the necessary power and emissions requirements. But still, what a surprise! Was there ANYONE predicting this? And is Subaru once again the best in the business at keeping secrets or what? Geez, until early this afternoon, the only word from Subaru was that they were debuting the new-look Impreza. Not even a solid rumor of the STi announcement.

I sprung one!

One more thing regarding the EJ25. I did read an Australian magazine or newspaper review that as wonderful the STi was in so many ways, it was sadly lacking in low RPM torque. They even talked about it being "dangerously" slow in merging with traffic. Probably an overstatement, but it appears that the 2.5 may remedy that.

I'd have to check, but everything I've ever read to date indicated the rest of the world was still getting the 2.0 @ 260 hp or so. I'm not even sure if Japan gets 300hp (yes, I know about the 280hp "agreement" - but we all know that's not followed.)

According to Subaru's own site, we are getting at least as much if not more performance than the rest of the world.

Damn, who'd guess this? I'm in shock. I need to go to bed, but I feel like I did when I was 8 years old on Christmas morning!

So who wants to buy a mint 2001 Audi S4 w/320 hp and only 17k miles?? Come on!

biturbo

i am SOO glad i just sold my avant S4. i will not be able to sleep tonight either.

some people were talking about the 2.5 turbo, but ho one believed it. what an awesome secret, and what a bomb on the evo guys. there are a few on evolutionm.com who claim they are pulling there deposites on the EVO and going to the nearest suby dealer.

crazy.

josh

hey guys, this is my first post. let me start off by saying i have been a diehard evo fan since i learned of the damn car over a year ago. when it was announced that the evo would not come with acd or ayc, i was disappointed enough to withdraw my bid to buy an evo. to me that is what set the evo apart.

my freaking homepage is evolutionm.net. believe me people over there are ****ting themselves. this is a total shock from subaru. if everything is true, there is no way in hell i wont buy this car. what excites me the most are the two new differentials. how will these compare to acd/ayc and are they performance breakers in terms of handling?

i am stoned off of subaru right now. that car is just ridiculous.

The Evo is limited production and in the rest of the world market the Evo will hang with the STi quite well. Mits is testing the water in the North American market. Sure, it's a set back but not a big defeat. Mits has quite a bit of cash to put out if need be and their technical prowess is evident. Remember, they brought AWD, 4 cylinder turbo's to the North American market AND twin turbo V6's with AWD.

As nice as the power specs are for the Sti, I'll have to pass. I can't see spending over $30k for a subcompact Subaru, no way. There is too little to justify it's cost. I'll take the WRX in silver and add my own leather. :)
With the new WRX coming in March, there should be some excellent deals on all the left over 03 models. I went to a dealer this past weekend who had about 15 WRX's in stock. No wonder Suby is offering low financing on the WRX.

T

The 280 HP rating on the JDM 2.0 sti was very UNDER rated - so realistically the 2.5 L USA 300 hp figure is just becuase they did not want to come in with a 250 - 260 HP figure like the STI type UK when factored for 91 octane fuel

Realistically - with a stepped up tune - this same new 2.5 L engine should be good for 350 hp just by raising the timing and leaning it out alla the JDM tune that my STI V8 ecu had

As for any increase in weight - the weight would be the same on the 2.5 L - its just prob the same STI 2.0 blosck with a stroker crank and slightly bigger pistons

First thing I'm going to do is order me a 2.5 short block from my dealer when these things come out

BTW - does ANYONE know - WHAT the release date is on this sucker - PLEASE !

I can wait to see what my current set up will do with the 2.5 L short block - - I bet it gets my GT30 turbo spolling much harder - much lower and picks up another 50 HP on top

Thank GOD I read this tonight - I was going to plunk down a deposit on a new evo tomorrow - NOW it looks like I'll stick with the '02 WRX for another year to see what it will feel like with the 2.5 block

EVO's 4G63 motor is well known to DSM guys and the aftermarket parts are far more available than Subaru aftermarkets... it will be a good competition.

plus EVO is LowEmissionVehicle...the exhaust system must be very restrictive. Once the exhaust is replaced to aftermarket, it must make a lot of power. I won't be surprise to see 300ps just changing the exhaust because stock EVO dyno over 300 in Japan.

Originally posted by go go go
EVO's 4G63 motor is well known to DSM guys and the aftermarket parts are far more available than Subaru aftermarkets... it will be a good competition.

plus EVO is LowEmissionVehicle...the exhaust system must be very restrictive. Once the exhaust is replaced to aftermarket, it must make a lot of power. I won't be surprise to see 300ps just changing the exhaust because stock EVO dyno over 300 in Japan. Not true - I just heard today also that the evo VIII uses a totally new - REVERESE spinning turbo and will need a totally new exhuast manifold set up to use any of the traditional dsm style turbos

About weight: The weight difference between a 2.5 block and a 2.0 block is negligable to none, more like 10lbs or so not 100lbs, even with a semi-closed block. What WILL make up for extra weight is the transmition.

I am in complete shock that subaru went all out like this! Im going to the dealership tommorow for a couple things already, and im gonna spend alot of time talking with all of them of course... No deposits for me though :(

Im more amazed at the stereo and DCCD. Happily amazed of course, i would put my own stereo from my impreza now in it anyway (like that would ever happen...) The EJ25 sounds like it is based off of the JDM AVCS EJ25's that I have been trying to learn more about for awhile now... I bet we will know plenty soon enough!

The applications for this car will also be amazing... At any track, auto-x/rally/road course/1/4 mile, it is gonna be just a site to see...

Remember, they brought AWD, 4 cylinder turbo's to the North American market AND twin turbo V6's with AWD
.....arent both of those cars gone? LOL not flaming or anything.
Actually I had a GST that I loved dearly until I had to replace the engine twice, completley unmoded. I think I might be jaded. But I'm excited to see the EVO over here also. I'd drive it.
I think it will offer good competition for Subie wich will in turn keep them doing exciting things like they just did.

Any idea what "High Intensity Discharge Halogens" are re. the microsite? :P

HID lights? Go look at mid/high level BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Acura, etc....

hey

i agree the EVo is nothing to stick your nose up at. i really dig the EVO, but subaru just turned up the heat. gas is a BIG issue in cali, and even with a fmic and ic sprayer, the piss we use for gas will sap power from the EVO.

now the same applies to the STi, but the STi has a half a liter more, and this motor is built for a turbo. mod for mod, the STi will probably beat up on the EVO. thinking about the extra torque down low alone just makes me get a boner. i was always kinda disappointed about the lag, and this is a welcome sight. if you read the advanced drive articles about the EVO, power doesnt hit until 3500 rpm. on 2.5 RS w turbos (not that this car will be the same motor, but for comparison sake...) the extra torque allows the turbo to spool VERY quicky. the loss of compression will be noticable, but not THAT much.

man. this is really exciting. i know some cant figure to spend that much on a Subaru, but this car will kick most cars ass. cars WAY more expensive. go get a BMW. join the masses of yuppies (and yuppie wanna be's). a car like the US STi is just going to be a great all round car.

and just think of the tuning potential!!! AAAAHHHH. adjustable dif, the STi interior. i REALLY need to work the wife to put a deposite down....

josh

MAN! I want one sooo badly!!! AYE!

IF anyone hears what deposit they are requiring let us all know. I will be calling dealers tomorrow first thing. Gotta get one of these reserved asap...

The funny thing is is the dealer is just hearing about this now as well. I just talked to mine like a week ago and he was in the dark.

This really is a dream car within my price range. I couldn't be any happier. will prob trade in my 03 when the time comes. :-)

Originally posted by Alfriedesq
Not true - I just heard today also that the evo VIII uses a totally new - REVERESE spinning turbo and will need a totally new exhuast manifold set up to use any of the traditional dsm style turbos

Are you refering to the twin scroll turbo? It allows the turbo to spool up at a lower RPM. I thought I saw a thread somewhere around here that said the JDM STi gets a twin scroll turbo as well.

BTW, AFAIK there isn't, strictly speaking, a 300HP limit on WRC cars. There is a restrictor plate on the turbo inlet of some specific size (I can't remember off the top of my head). This ends up limiting the power the 2L engines can make to around 300HP but with much more torque.

Oh, I think you'll still be eligible for SCCA Club/Pro rally in either the Group 5 or Open divisions. You can have an adjusted displacement of 5100 cc in those classes. Assuming there's a 2L displacement limit for WRC, it shouldn't affect people trying to rally the US STi here. You'd only run into trouble exporting an STi to europe (afaik).

The performance, stock, will be amazing. Overall, the car lacks in certain automobiles areas. It's a matter of choice that's all.

"go get a BMW. join the masses of yuppies (and yuppie wanna be's). a car like the US STi is just going to be a great all round car. "

Well, that's a short sighted commentary. It's snobby and yet you call someone a "wanna be"? BMW makes excellent all around cars.
I don't happen to want one. I think the WRX is perfectly fine.
If the STi is under $30k, where it should be, then it may be an option, over $30k is too much. My point is that Subaru should have spent more time on the Impreza/WRX which has brought more life to Subaru as a great seller.
The Sti is an image car, a very nice rough around the edges brawler, automobile. It's in need of some style and refinement.

T

umm... under $30k for a car this will prolly be faster in the 1/4 than a corvette, handle just as well, be driven in the snow, rain and dirt, and then carry the FAMILY to the theater, you would except that to be under $30k, jeeeeeez, you are cheep.

Noah

Expected ship date for mine is in May - I am first on the waiting list for my local dealer (I was on the list early last month)

Expected production run is 1800 this year.

Cost? Estimated 30K+



I am selling my WRX to build up my down.
http://www.cars.com/search/used/cc/standard/results/single/ld/detail.jhtml?paId=118707764&aff=national&src=&cid=null

they are making more then 1800 this year its the normal production ammount for there debue.. I am also on a waiting list ;) for March MUAHHAHA but i dont know if i can come up with the money by then... BUT I MUST FIND A WAY!!!

umm... under $30k for a car this will prolly be faster in the 1/4 than a corvette, handle just as well, be driven in the snow, rain and dirt, and then carry the FAMILY to the theater, you would except that to be under $30k, jeeeeeez, you are cheep.
**********

Faster than a vette? Not overall. Top speed is about HP and aerodynamics which the Sti lacks. 1/4? Sure. But, I don't live my life 1/4 mile at a time. :)
There are many cars that handle extremely well. The Focus SVT is one example of a car that actually handles better than the WRX but with less power. The Focus RS spanks the WRX in Europe and comes with a kickass stereo, powered sunroof, and leather for LESS money. And as far as carrying the family to the theater, sure, if it's a small family made of small people. That back seat in this car is tiny. Remember, it's a sub compact.
I'm cheap? :) No, my friend, it is Subaru that is cheap. I know my cars and I know what is available in this price range. I'm here to tell you that the WRX lacks in amenities. The STI even more so. Heck, they don't even include a stereo for that price in the STi. And, they try to wash that away by saying they are trying to save weight. Ha! Try a smaller bat wing on the rear.

No need to be insulting sir. I am merely stating my viewpoint. It's my money and I can spend it as I see fit.

T

point taken, although i disagree

:)

Noah

Originally posted by QuickSilver
they are making more then 1800 this year its the normal production ammount for there debue.. I am also on a waiting list ;) for March MUAHHAHA but i dont know if i can come up with the money by then... BUT I MUST FIND A WAY!!!

I am only passing on the info the dealer said. Orders placed this month - the build takes place over the next few, and the first shipment was expected in May.


Sooner is not better for me!!! I am sporting a chub for this car, but need to arrange the finances.

point taken, although i disagree
****

What that I'm cheap? :) Just kidding.

Don't get me wrong, I think the STi is kick ass. It's just not for me in that price range. I certainly wouldn't knock anyone who is willing to pay the price to have one though. Hopefully dealers won't gouge customers, but, you know it'll happen. The nice thing about having the Evo available is that maybe having both of these cars available will help keep the price within reason.

When the 350Z came out, dealers tried to mark them up but Nissan put a stop to that. I applaud Nissan for that decision. Subaru should follow that lead and tell dealers to keep the price at MSRP.

T

Let's see 5-7K over the WRX for:
Strengthened 2.5L motor.
STI Suspension
WRC Style Rear wing (functional)
STI Fog Light Covers
17" Gold BBS Rims
Performance Tires
Larger Turbo
STI Injectors
6 Speed Close Ratio Manual Transmission (not the "glass transmission" out of the WRX)
DCCD
Larger Exhaust (and did you notice in the powertrain pictures that there were still 3 cats to remove:)
Trick Seats (Do they handle a racing harness like the EVO?)
Larger Intercooler
Intercooler Water Sprayer
HID Headlights
etc.

I'm sorry my friend but that is a steal. If you tried to do the same in your WRX you would be way over the additional cost.

Sure there is already a great aftermarket for the EVO engine, but unfortunately Mitsubishi went the traditional way of the American import market - water it down. Mod for mod, the STI is going to kill the EVO (the EVO already runs 19PSI to obtain their 271HP).

And my bet is on the STI beating the Vette (although not the Z06 bad boy).

yeah the above post does put a closing on the price debate... I think it's gonna be a fair price a tad over 30...

I really love this car, can't wait to read more about it, and see them in person.

In terms of return for the dollar when comparing the STi to the WRX, I agree it's a great value. However, we'll wait and see how much dealers will gouge.

I doubt the STi will be "around $30,000" or even anywhere near $30,000.
If the STi is near the $30k mark, then Subaru will have to lower the WRX price. It seems as though they would have to or they should make a lot of the extra cost options, standard.
If the price of a fully loaded WRX with sunroof, heated seats, heated mirrors, and the audio stuff exceeds $26,000, then Subaru is out of their minds considering that the EVO will cost a bit under $29,000. If you add the outrageous 17" wheel option that brings a WRX to about $28,500, and that's much too close to a $30k STi and the Mits EVO. I don't think the STi will be priced that low.
Subaru bean counters have been hitting the Saki a bit hard. :)

T

I am new to the WRX world (don't have one). I know info is sketchy on the 04 STi, But what do you think/know are going to be the major differences between our U.S. spec units and rest of world? Also what is the cost of the STi in U.S. dollars in other markets compared to std. WRX?

I know some of this info. may be avalable in other forums but thought this might be the place to ask.

Thanks in advance

Since the price is TBD, that brings up a good question. How much would subaru fans pay for one. This is the right forum vote now:
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5271

Anyone want to guess how much boost their using to get 300 HP from a 2.5 Liter? If they are only running 15 PSI, this car is going to by a monster when a few mods are thrown at it.

Originally posted by go go go
I totally agree with you
I think they had no choice but to use EJ25 to achive 280ps range while meeting US emission standard and fuel situation.
It's pretty amazing EVO8 is LEV considering it's 271 from 2.0 turbo.
Hey go go go, you always have some sort of interesting technical tid bit to share with us. I bet your going crazy right now with this new bomb Subaru has just released , he, he... What do you think the dealer price will come in at ?
Tom..

Originally posted by WoRX

I can't see spending over $30k for a subcompact Subaru, no way. There is too little to justify it's cost. I'll take the WRX in silver and add my own leather. :)
T

I'm glad there are people like you out there who are not willing to spend 30k+ on a Subaru. That way the rest of us (i.e the true enthusiasts) and have more STI's to choose from.

As for putting LEATHER into your WRX...??? I don't even have the words to counter that one...

If I could offer suggestions to Subaru, I would also suggest a lightweight version by changing the following non-performance bits:

Remove Power Windows, locks and mirrors
Remove fancy stereo
No Sunroof
Lightweight front windscreen
Remove HID lights
Optional A/C

Shedding a couple hundred pounds will improve the handling, acceleration & braking significantly while making the car more affordable.

Originally posted by DocDetroit
Anyone want to guess how much boost their using to get 300 HP from a 2.5 Liter? If they are only running 15 PSI, this car is going to by a monster when a few mods are thrown at it.

while considering boost, any ideas on the turbo?
with 300horses, you probably need a bigger turbo
than the 13g on the current wrx. what is the turbo
on the jdm sti?

what about injector size? how big are the injectors
on the current wrx?

Originally posted by DocDetroit
Anyone want to guess how much boost their using to get 300 HP from a 2.5 Liter? If they are only running 15 PSI, this car is going to by a monster when a few mods are thrown at it.

Isnt that the beauty of it, imagine just some simple mods how much extra power you will gain. Ouch. Just gotta find a dealer with room on the reserve list now.

This is great news. Finally the US market is getting some deserved respect.

But I don't have high hope of obtaining one this year. Someone made the remark that the STi will rape its competition. Well you know who else will get rape? Us, the buyers! I can see it now.

Dealer: "So you want the STi?"
Buyer: "Yes, oh absolutely yes!!!
Buyer: "And I won't pay more than MSRP!"
Dealer: "Aww. How sweet. Here's some Bengay and please bend over."

Everyone is frothing at mouth at the very thought of the STi. If the production numbers stay under 2000 units a year, I don't see this it selling for under $40k. It really doesn't matter what price point Subaru set for the STi, it's what the buyers will endure.

I really hope Subaru will produce at least 5000-6000 annually for the US. But the STi is Subaru's image car so it probably won't happen. But then again, Subaru proved that it can surprise everyone. So I'm crossing my fingers.

Im beginning to realize I will just pick up the all too common WRX non-STi and wait until they are more mainstream to trade up. Not having much luck getting on a list here in Vegas and am moving to Hawaii in about a month and for sure wont get on their list.

Oh well, WRX standard will work for a year or so. Give me a nice intro to Subarus which I have never owned. Im thinking they will be asking more about $35,000, but who can tell. Subaru needs to do what Nissan did as someone mentioned. I was looking at one of those and couldnt believe with all its performance they only were asking $32,000. Need more room tho with the kid on the way.

Yes it may be exciting but how many jokers are all talk and how many are really going to get one. The same crap happened when the WRX made it here. Lets all chill. Yes it is coming, Yes it looks nice and has benefits. Until you have one though get a life.

Well everyong is guessing from price, to availability, to "I am getting one" to "I am not or cannot" Let me ask this once (or maybe twice) At this point in time... WHO CARES

Well obviously enough people care and want to talk about it so let it be. Who cares if everyone wants one and wants to talk about it. Isnt that what the forums are about?

Here is a link for you all. Specs and pricing. Keep in mind pricing is in the Japanese Yen.

http://www.japanvehicles.com/newcars/subaru/WRX2003model/main.htm


Enjoy fighting amongst yourselves to figure out what the price is going to be. lol....

I'm glad there are people like you out there who are not willing to spend 30k+ on a Subaru. That way the rest of us (i.e the true enthusiasts) and have more STI's to choose from.
*******

That's a pretty arrogant statement. :)
"true enthusiast" of what? A sports car or a Subaru?
Just because I don't feel a Subaru sub compact is worth over $30k, that makes me a non auto enthusiast?

"As for putting LEATHER into your WRX...??? I don't even have the words to counter that one"
********

Leather is for non auto enthusiasts? I wasn't aware of that. Better call Porsche, Ferrari, Chevy (Corvette), Lamborghini and let them know that their interiors are for "non enthusiasts". LOL!

Sounds to me like you want a completely stripped race prepped car.
Well, the WRX/STi is a STREET car. It is NOT a rally car or a race car.
If that is what you seek, go for it. I wouldn't criticize your choice as you do to mine.
You can always buy the STi and strip it.

T

Dealer rep I talked to today said MSRP will be betw $32-35K and 4500-5000 units will be produced for 1st year.

giovanni

:(

boy man, that is a great attitude. all this talk is EXACTLY what this forum is all about. if someone wants to dream a little, have at it.

and you ask who cares....

I DO!!!! as well an the founder of this site and many others.

josh

PS I am one of those "jokers" who is going to get one....

Originally posted by josh
boy man, that is a great attitude. I hearby declare giovanni's new title as "boy man" !!!

Just talked to the local dealer today and put down a deposit(refundable) to be 3rd on the wait list for an STI.

Trying to bridle my enthusiasm until I have a chance to actually give em' the once over. Fortunately, there should be a quite a few exciting cars hitting the US market for 04 MY @ ~$30k.


My dealership let me know that the owner is flying out to Subaru in Utah on the 16th and that they'll have all of the info for me on the 17th...availability, colors, price, etc.


I'll post anything interesting that I find.

Best regards.

Well, I know a couple dealers will try to gouge... (Two especially that I can think of) But I have no doubt that most will be holding to the MSRP clause.

And yes, production was announced to be between 4000 and 5000 with the possiblilty of more if there is enough demand. (geez, stop talking to dealers and start reading the press releases!)

BTW, Did anyone else notice today that the RX-8 will be ~$26k? That sounds like a good deal too...

Originally posted by jmjunker
Just talked to the local dealer today and put down a deposit(refundable) to be 3rd on the wait list for an STI.

Trying to bridle my enthusiasm until I have a chance to actually give em' the once over. Fortunately, there should be a quite a few exciting cars hitting the US market for 04 MY @ ~$30k.


My dealership let me know that the owner is flying out to Subaru in Utah on the 16th and that they'll have all of the info for me on the 17th...availability, colors, price, etc.


I'll post anything interesting that I find.

Best regards.

How much deposit if you dont mind me asking?

Originally posted by DaveWRX
How much deposit if you dont mind me asking?

My dealer had me put the Subaru buy/hold amount of 200.00 Actual deposit once the options and colors are chosen will be 500.00

I've had money down on one for months now (refundable deposit :p). I figure what's it hurt me to have some money down, have first dibs at the first STi my dealer gets, and if I don't like it get my money back and go buy an Evo or an RX8. I'm a little unhappy about the stereo thing, and something about that 'energetic' blue interior heh...But hey, I can get a better stereo for cheaper aftermarket anyway.


BTW, hello to anyone who remembers me...I'll mourn for my post count ;)

Originally posted by WoRX
I'm glad there are people like you out there who are not willing to spend 30k+ on a Subaru. That way the rest of us (i.e the true enthusiasts) and have more STI's to choose from.
*******

That's a pretty arrogant statement. :)
"true enthusiast" of what? A sports car or a Subaru?
Just because I don't feel a Subaru sub compact is worth over $30k, that makes me a non auto enthusiast?

"As for putting LEATHER into your WRX...??? I don't even have the words to counter that one"
********

Leather is for non auto enthusiasts? I wasn't aware of that. Better call Porsche, Ferrari, Chevy (Corvette), Lamborghini and let them know that their interiors are for "non enthusiasts". LOL!

Sounds to me like you want a completely stripped race prepped car.
Well, the WRX/STi is a STREET car. It is NOT a rally car or a race car.
If that is what you seek, go for it. I wouldn't criticize your choice as you do to mine.
You can always buy the STi and strip it.

T

Yes you're right.

It was rather arrogant and foolish of me to criticize your choice. Your vision of an enthusiast street car is different from my vision.

Speaking of Exotic Cars, Given the chioce of a top Ferrari, you would probably go for an F50 which is incredibly competent and has Leather seats & other luxuries. I would go for an F40 which comes pretty much stripped down and without leather. However, both car are awesome in their own way.

It just my opinion that Subaru should give a chioce of a lightweight version that emphasizes handling and performance while MINIMIZING the cost of non-performance items.

I would not want to strip down a loaded car because that would have a negative impact on the car's resale value and possible endanger the car's warranty. Rather, I would like to see a hard-core version straight from the factory.

Rally ready version, drool. But really, I have to agree that creature comforts do count in a street car -AC, power steering/windows, etc. But for me, drop the leather and give me some Sparco's. I think a lot of the reason that porshe/lamborgini/ferarri/etc put leather standard in their car is that their target market (i.e. ultra rich yuppie type) would turn their noses up at a car without corinthian leather (Hans can't have his backside touching yucky cloth). The STI goes for a totally different kind of enthusiast - rally fans. And any real rally fan would turn their noses up at leather in their street legal rally car.

And I for one will own one of these cars, but not this year. I have been raped too many times for having to be the first on the block to have a new car. I was one of the first in my state to get a Chevy Avalanche, and had my first WRX a few months after it came out in the U.S. Then you start seeing them new for less than you owe on them. Maybe next year after everyone has payed the initial premium to be first I'll have my new baby. Love you DCCD.

You guys are all crazy!
Anyone want to buy my 2002 w/ 20K miles and a Vishnu Stage 0 kit? Cheap!

i contacted a dealer...they told me i would have to give them a $500 NONrefundable deposit because of people giving deposits just to test drive the car and then taking the deposit back. since when do dealers not give test drives for free anymore?? also they said that the car will be sold at MSRP

Originally posted by theprod
since when do dealers not give test drives for free anymore??
When it's a $30,000+ limited production car that someone has no intention of buying. That being said, dealers in my area are requiring $2K fully-refundable deposits and selling at MSRP, so it probably varies by region.

i have evry intention of buying one, just not sure if i would have the money in time...i think thats a valid reason to have a refundable deposit...and why should u have to pay if u have never driven the car?

Nissan dealers did the same thing, at first. There were many preordered
Z's. That makes it hard to get a test drive as the owners don't want miles on their new $30k plus car, especially a unique limited production vehicle.
But, let's be serious. This "limited production" is only because it'll take some time to make the cars. It's not because Nissan nor Subaru really want limited production of a great selling car. Case in point, the Z. Now that the fever is over anyone can get a test drive as there a Z's sitting on dealer lots and showrooms. Same thing will happen with the STi and the EVO.

We've got some Nissan dealers around here where the owner or general manager takes a Z car for his own driving pleasure, drives it up to the typical 600 miles or under (so that it can still appeal to someone as "new" demo) and they try and sell it for the same as a new one. Yet, they wouldn't give demo rides to potential customers when the car first came out.
There is no way I would ever buy a car without having driven it first.
Would you get married without having sex first? :)

It's a hot car and stealers...er dealers will take advantage if you let them.
I'm sticking with the WRX. It seems to have some nice improvements which are to my liking. I still think the STi is cool though.

T

yea i agree...no way am i puttin a non refundable deposit down if i have never driven the car...i dont care how much hype it gets or whats its reputation already is, i gotta drive the car first...worst comes to worst, i'll wait the few extra months if i have to..the dealer said they will arrive late summer

Hey guys I love the new STI but there is one thing you guys have to realize about the EVO. Yes the new STI has more HP due to an extra .5 liters that had to happen cause of emmisions but in the end has there ever been a STI that can beat a EVO. On a post when u guys showed the Jun STI going around a track in Japan the STI couldnt even touch the top EVO when it came to xtreme mods. I love the fact that there is a WRX wagon but is the gonna be a WRX STI Wagon w/ flares? We will see in a few months after the launch of the STI if those Jun guys can finally use a subie to beat a Evo. Will it happen... umm it will be a nice battle.

Stock: yes the new STI may beat the Evo but when fully modified can a STI really beat a EVO around the track? Hasnt been proven so far.

No STI has ever beat an EVO? Gotta disagree with that. Have you ever heard of the WRC. That is extreme mods at its finest. And yes the STI has beaten the EVO there many times. And the EVO/STI battle has been waging on the street for years, both rides are awesome. As for comparing the two US models highly modified on the track, no one has because they have not existed yet. The STI traditionally has been a 2.0 L displacement to qualify it for WRC competition. The 2.5L changes everything (more low end torque), and both cars are in a new body shell. Plus with the DCCD the subaru will handle variable road conditions much better than the EVO (I wish they had brought the ACD and AYC to the US).

As for getting a wagon, has there every been an STI wagon? I am not aware of one, but I could be wrong. That to me is like asking for an automatic STI-probably not going to happen. The STI is all about performance.

Subaru Marketing,

Here's a data point: R&T's 2002 Car of the Year- The Swanky Infiniti G35 Sport Coupe.

Has 280 hp, 6 speed, leather, and stereo for ~32.5k.

I think that much of the WRX success in the states has been to its high value - good performance for a good price.

I hope the STI maintains the same value and doesn't get ahead of itself at this increasingly competitive price point and economic landscape.

Can't wait to get my STI!

Check the link below.

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0207scc_versus/


While not an STi it is a very modified WRX. EVO won, but the new STi is a different beast.

That doesn't apply to this debate at all. Your taking a European version EVO VII and putting it up against a lightly modified WRX (don't care what they say, that car is not highly modified and not near the STI - sorry guys). The European EVO has the ACD and AYC, which the US model doesnt. Plus the US models are the new EVO VIII and a completely redesigned STI. Even then they kept commenting that the WRX is funner to drive. I want to see them do a showdown on the US market cars stat. Someone throw down the gauntlet and then we'll see who emerges victorious.

An EVO VII versus a modified WRX doesn't say much about a US EVO 8 versus an STi. ;)

Originally posted by technik
Here is a link for you all. Specs and pricing. Keep in mind pricing is in the Japanese Yen.

http://www.japanvehicles.com/newcars/subaru/WRX2003model/main.htm


Enjoy fighting amongst yourselves to figure out what the price is going to be. lol....

3,587,000 JPY ~ $30,118.87 :D
That's for a WRX STi with the electronic gadgets, HIDs, and 17" wheels.

I'm new to the Rex and Evo cars, but I'm seriously considering both as my next vehicle. We need a second "family" car -- we currently have an S4 Avant and my Mk4 GTI VR6, which has been a fun car, too. :P Both the STi and Evo have 4 doors, so there's a qualifier!

I'm just beginning to learn about aftermarket availability for both, but I don't think that will be a major deciding factor for me. Both will be tuner-friendly. Gotta see & drive each one to make an informed decision... Just gotta wait...

The 402,000 yen model is more in line with the US model. This still dosen't apply because the motors are different (JDM is 2.0L) and you have to consider the cost of overseas shipping, etc.

Originally posted by cobraKLR
No STI has ever beat an EVO? Gotta disagree with that. Have you ever heard of the WRC. That is extreme mods at its finest. And yes the STI has beaten the EVO there many times

Yes and no to the statement(s) above.

In WRC, it's more of a driver's competiton than a manufacturer's competition. The environment isn't exactly controlled because you can disintegrate tires, break transmissions, fall off cliffs, etc. -- all of those tend to slow you down. Plus, you can't memorize a rally course like you can a smooth, closed track. If the STi beat the Evo, it was largely due to the driver being better and (to an extent) having more luck at the time of the race. Same thing goes if the Evo beat the STi. Speaking of WRC, those Peugeot 206's have been doing pretty well, ey?

True there are many variables so it is hard to say. Over the past few years the STI has traditionally performed better than the EVO - taking into account the entire season. Also, it's been awhile since there has been a driver wearing Red on the podium.

As for the Pug 206 - man I have gotta agree with you there. That car is crazy, 500+ ft/lbs of torque - that's more than any american V8 light truck diesel makes. I wouldn't mind seeing the 206 come over as well, although from what I understand it is more like the US Lancer (non-EVO) in Europe. And Marcus Gronholm has been driving like he is possessed. Too bad Richard Burns had to switch teams - Burns, Solberg, and Macanen would have been a hell of a team to watch.

Originally posted by cobraKLR
The 402,000 yen model is more in line with the US model. This still dosen't apply because the motors are different (JDM is 2.0L) and you have to consider the cost of overseas shipping, etc.

True. That's how I figured it. 3,185,000 JPY + 402,000 JPY (for options) = 3,587,000 JPY. Still, I expect (read: hope for) low $30k's.

My bad I missed a digit.

Originally posted by Cabal
An EVO VII versus a modified WRX doesn't say much about a US EVO 8 versus an STi. ;)

While I agree with the above comment and the previous comment (cobraklr) on the STi/WRXm and EVO VII/VIII - it does bring to light the PAST competitions the two models have had. EVO has been spanking the JDM spec STi in Europe, Australia, and the JDM. Additionally, how many of us have modded WRX(en?) and will be prowling for EVOs? Forewarned is forearmed...

The JDM STi is way better than the article's modified WRX, and the VIII is better than the VII. (apples to apples? nah, but the trend was set.)

That all being said - The US STi will *eat* the EVO in all markets. (And most other autos... Including the Mustang I have in the garage with 20k in mods. :( ) I will be dumping the WRX I currently own for it.

Originally posted by meridock
The JDM STi is way better than the article's modified WRX, and the VIII is better than the VII. (apples to apples? nah, but the trend was set.)


what makes you think the evo viii is better than the vii?
the viii has less hp, lacks ayc and acd,
and has the ricey altezza lights....

well sti is a great car but handling wise i will prefer the wrx... just like many japanese tuners... they prefer the WRX becasue it is a basic car rather than a manufacture modified car... this way the customer and make the choices rather than the manufacture... EX. i think the suspension that comes with the STi is SHyt... i would prefer choosing my own such as Tein or JIC... with a WRX u have that choice but with an STi do u really want to spend more money of modifying it when u paid like 10000-12000 more than the WRX... coz i am sure that with 10000-12000 to modify the WRX it will be faster and have better performance than the STi

Looks like I'm gonna be trading my wrx foir the STI Baby I think its worth it. Guess I'm gonna have to do what I gotta do for the STI no more going out for a while to save up for a down payment to help in the trade in.

Hey everyone, new here and I joined cuz I might be trading in my e36 m3 for the new wrx sti and need some info to make my decision.

Ne one think the dealers will be charging msrp for the sti or will they mark it up due to the demand?? Also what's the main difference between the wrx sti spec c and the regular wrx sti? And will the usdm see the spec c possibly as a 2005 model? Also another concern of mine is that I heard that subaru techs and service is not too good, so what do you peeps that already own a subaru think of their service(I know every dealership will be different but whats the general concensus on their level of service)??

Thanks

Originally posted by WoRX
..............Remember, it's a sub compact.
I'm cheap? :) No, my friend, it is Subaru that is cheap. I know my cars and I know what is available in this price range. I'm here to tell you that the WRX lacks in amenities. The STI even more so. Heck, they don't even include a stereo for that price in the STi. And, they try to wash that away by saying they are trying to save weight. Ha! Try a smaller bat wing on the rear.

T [/B]

I don't agree with the complaint about the STI price. At $30K what are you going to get that is anywhere close to the performace car that the WRX STi will be? IMHO, nothing out there is in the same class. The WRX is not a small car in today's market either. If one reads the published specs for available cars, one would see that most cars are not any bigger and most are much smaller than the Impreza, at least inside. When you consider all the go fast goodies that the STi includes as standard, it is a bargain. The Brembo brakes, 6 speed tranny, 300 hp engine and more, make it a bargain. Just try modifying a WRX or an Impreza RS to match that performance and you'll see many $K's flying away wh9ile leaving you with something much less than the sum of the parts compared with the factory made, stock, under warranty car. No, there is little doubt that $30K is cheap. I'm afraid it will come in higher rthan that. Still, as soon as my dealer takes deposits I'm ordering one :)

BTW - speaking as prob the ONLY guy on this board who actually drives a STI every day - I would pay up to $45,000.00 fo rthe STI easy

Its worth a LOT more than it sells for - its a bragin

It BLOWS away the regular wrx in every regard

Originally posted by zakenjanei
what makes you think the evo viii is better than the vii?
the viii has less hp, lacks ayc and acd,
and has the ricey altezza lights....

One man's rice is another bird seed (or something like that :) )

One thing that makes the VIII better is that it will be US distribution where previous mitsu performance was not in this class...

Personally, I think the rear quarter panels look too big for the wheel well...

Since I do not follow the Mitsu much I would ask:
Where is the HP lost? High RPM or through entire power band?
Where is the Torque?
Re: ACD and AYC... Agreed - this is a glaring lack - but see above comments on US Distro... At least something is coming.

Off topic...
What I hate (strong words) is the assumption by the rest of world until now that the American market couldn't handle the performance of the JDM... I know emissions and Octane are reasons to not ship a factory turn key racer, but the rest of the EVO and STi package is very much in demand. The Germans do the same thing with the Euro spec M3 and AMG's but at least what they do send has been coming for years rather than a year...

I'm so excited, I just can't hide it, I'm about to lose control and I think I like it! (or something like that).

I hope the car is priced around the low $30K. Luckily, most Americans won't pay that much for a compact and those who are willing won't have that kind of money. Hey Alex, will the STI owners get their own forum ;) j/k

Originally posted by Yellow Rex
I don't agree with the complaint about the STI price. At $30K what are you going to get that is anywhere close to the performace car that the WRX STi will be? IMHO, nothing out there is in the same class. The WRX is not a small car in today's market either. If one reads the published specs for available cars, one would see that most cars are not any bigger and most are much smaller than the Impreza, at least inside. When you consider all the go fast goodies that the STi includes as standard, it is a bargain. The Brembo brakes, 6 speed tranny, 300 hp engine and more, make it a bargain. Just try modifying a WRX or an Impreza RS to match that performance and you'll see many $K's flying away wh9ile leaving you with something much less than the sum of the parts compared with the factory made, stock, under warranty car. No, there is little doubt that $30K is cheap. I'm afraid it will come in higher rthan that. Still, as soon as my dealer takes deposits I'm ordering one :)

I agree with Yellow Rex here. Having a GTI VR6 and spending a lot of time reading posts on VWvortex, every VW enthusiast is saying the same thing about the upcoming Golf R32. While the R32 isn't as powerful as the STi, it is VW's best Golf yet, with 240 hp/tq, 4-Motion, HID's, racing seats, 18" wheels, big brakes, dual exhaust, body kit, great interior materials, etc. All for ~$30k. A loaded 24V VR6 (without ANY of the extras of the R32) is in the $25k range...and more in some states. So for a few thousand more, you're getting hi-po goodies, much the same as the STi is getting. But many VW enthusiasts are saying, why not buy a 24V VR6 and mod the poop out of that? Well... you'll spend much more than $30k total modding a VR6 engine, especially if you go FI... and if you do it correctly. Throw in suspension, body kit...the works... it all costs money, which many people don't have up front for serious power mods. Hence, the hi-po factory versions.

The STi, Evo, and R32 aren't for everyone, nor should they be, but they are a bargain.

I'm trying to get my wife to like the Evo and/or WRX STi... we'll see how it goes! :D

All I have to say is MITSUBISHI= OWNED

had a dealer offer me a new sti at 500 under msrp....woohoo...nobody seems to be taking refundable deposits though..

Originally posted by theprod
had a dealer offer me a new sti at 500 under msrp....woohoo...nobody seems to be taking refundable deposits though..

Mine has - inquire on the Subaru Policy on Buy/Hold orders...

I wonder if anyone knows the color options on the Sti...?
I would prefer NOT to drive a blue Suby as they are quite common and (no flaming intended) I don't like gold rims personally. I understand the idea of tradition and all. I just want to know if the Sti is going to be treated like the 22b and done in a singular, commemoritive color or will we have color options?
Plus, gold Brembo's??? WTF?

Sti/Evo...???

RONIN

Originally posted by RONIN
I wonder if anyone knows the color options on the Sti...?RONIN, details seem to be sketchy other than what is posted at Subaru's official site, but here's a thread in the regional Bay Area forum that you may find of interest:

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5461

__________________
--
ww
"...axles of evil..." - George W. Bush

2.0 is the limit for displacement in WRC, and if you think they only have 300 hp your high. They say around 300 hp and that is probably at the wheels on a hot, hot day.

turbo'd 24V VR6 motor puts out 600+ hp. $10,000 for the kit though. HPA Motorsports makes it.

Originally posted by Silver arrow
2.0 is the limit for displacement in WRC, and if you think they only have 300 hp your high. They say around 300 hp and that is probably at the wheels on a hot, hot day.

They aren't too much over that number. This is limited due to the intake restrictor. It's in the torque department that thoes motors really shine. Many of them make well over 500 ft/lbs.

we took in the first STI down payment today. That lucky dude
will smell his car in a few months.- conrgatulations!!

Man that thing looks gay, starting to look like a gay ass lexus or something booooooooooooo

thanks for your intelligent comment

Originally posted by Eyes0cket
Man that thing looks gay, starting to look like a gay ass lexus or something booooooooooooo

That's not such a bad thing, Lexus makes beautiful cars. Just look at all those peeps that pay mucho mula to try to make their honda's look like a lexus with those altezza lights. Plus have you checked out the lancer evo VIII lately, those taillights look like they were pulled straight off an altezza.

Besides at least the new impreza doesn't look like a neon nemore

thats true!!!, Neons are very ugly!!, but I still dont like it

"BTW - speaking as prob the ONLY guy on this board who actually drives a STI every day - I would pay up to $45,000.00 fo rthe STI easy"

hey Al, there's actually a few ppl that have driven an STI on this board, and a few(me included) have been doing it longer than you! ;)

but you are so right dude! Driving an STI is a life-affirming experience, everytime i get outta my car i have these goofy grin that i cannot get off my face.... :p


:cool:-Lou:cool:

Talking to the salesmen at the Toronto auto show the price for the STI will be $47,000 to $50,000 CDN. (The base WRX is $35,000 here).

However they are sold out. Deposits have been placed on all the available 2004s for Canada.


According to the Mitsubichi salesmen the STI will not materialize and everone will be getting their refund back.

Mitsu Comment = FUD

That's funny - the dealer called on Friday and verified my color and wheel choice. He said to expect delivery in late May - exactly when the normal 2004 starts shipping...

47,000.00 CAD Canada Dollars = 31,456.68 USD United States Dollars


1 CAD = 0.669291 USD 1 USD = 1.49412 CAD

mistsu salesman translation:

"i cannot give you any reason to buy my evo rather than the sti so i will pretend the sti is not coming"

that mitsu saleman is just peaved that the new sti has stolen all their evo glory... :lol:

It's the Subaru salesman translation I was not impressed with:

If you want this hot car this year be ready to pay through the nose.

(I can wait for a 2005 if they don't give me the price I want. My 290 HP Talon still has a lot of life left , just no warrenty)

I would report that dealership to the manufacturer. I mentioned this to my dealer and he said it is absolutely against Subaru policy to mark up the sticker.


In fact Subaru chastized many dealers about marking up the WRX...

I don't agree that the EVO has lost it's appeal. It's going to be a fantastic automobile as will the STi. The EVO is down on power in comparison but it's also lower in price. It's handling may be better than the STi, we'll have to wait and see. I don't think Mits will have trouble selling all of the EVO's it brings over.

To some, the EVO is also a better looking car than the WRX/STi.
Also, the engine in the EVO is one solid piece and is known for being capable of extreme HP/torque output and takes nicely and easily to modification.

T

dont get me wrong WoRX, i do believe the evo will be one bad assed car when it arrives. i've always liked the styling and from what i've heard the evo more than holds its own in the handling dept. in fact i've heard from many that its just a better tarmac car, but not by much.... regardless, the fact that both are coming is great as the competition between the two is what spawned such and awsome series of EVOs and STIs in the first place. its finally awsome to be an auto enthusist in the US again!
i just thought it was very rectal of that salesman to insist the sti wont be coming, when all signs point to its coming....especially SOA itself saying that.

-Lou

i just thought it was very rectal of that salesman to insist the sti wont be coming, when all signs point to its coming....especially SOA itself saying that.
******
:) That IS stupid and rectal. Too many salesman don't even know their cars let alone the competition.

T

"this is so sweet, the redline is at 9000rpm and whenever you switch on the car, the tach meter will swing to the redline for showing off the power

From the subaru website, the specs are impressive and i'm pretty sure mitsubishi regretted every decision they have made about their Evo, maybe they'll fire their marketing analyst who said all the funky computer system wont be profitable at this side of the world.

GO Subaru!
the question is, to get it this year or wait for one year???"

hey. i thought the sti redlines at 7000rpm?? and id get the sti this year.. but i cant ,i have to get it in 2005, which may actually b better but id rather not wait even though i have to. will you wait it out with me till 2005 fellow subie? hehe so i at least know some one is out tthere suffering the wait with me =) hehehe..

Originally posted by syahm
this is so sweet, the redline is at 9000rpm and whenever you switch on the car, the tach meter will swing to the redline for showing off the power :)


9000 rpm?? Will it have a Vtec engine? ;) I don't think the STi will rev to 9000. Maybe 7000 and the power will be made at lower revs. Nothing wrong with that, but let's be realistic


Originally posted by syahm
From the subaru website, the specs are impressive and i'm pretty sure mitsubishi regretted every decision they have made about their Evo, maybe they'll fire their marketing analyst who said all the funky computer system wont be profitable at this side of the world.

GO Subaru!
the question is, to get it this year or wait for one year???

Well, Mitsu wont be firing anybody too soon. The EVO rocks! I was going to wait for the STi, but after all the bull ***t from the Subaru dealer and since the EVO got here, I traded in my WRX in on a Silver EVO VIII. Believe me, it's one nice car
:D

yes evo one nice car.. hey yellow rex, how much did it cost for u to buy that evo?

Originally posted by downshift
yes evo one nice car.. hey yellow rex, how much did it cost for u to buy that evo?

The sticker price was $29968 and I got $16.3K for the WRX...Taxes and all was about $14.7K.. Not a great deal, but good enough.... ;)

I think this FIRST run of U.S. STIs will be similar to the run of the 22B, in that when you go to buy one, they...uh...all....be like bought already. Realistically we should expect to wait until the 2005 model to be able to do the normal go-test-drive-it-and-decide-from-there type thing. I'm personally going for the EVO because of its price, availabilty, cast iron engine, and superior tarmac ability, and the fact that with a few hundred dollars it is a guarantee that power can be made to see well above the 300 mark, if necessary.
I think the only valid knock on the EVO 8 is the fact that the U.S. market will see the 5 speed, rather than the 6 speed, tranny...and that is the ONLY thing that would make me wait until the EVO 9 and, hopefully, the 6 speed...PLUS, even though I find it to be more gimicry than gadgetry, maybe the active yaw control, ECD, and traction control will be available in next run too.

id rather have the horizontally opposed boxer motor . WRX sti baby.

yes i am also waiting till 2005 because i cant buy a new car until then

The STi's aren't and won't be sold out. But, my guess is they will sell pretty well.

Most people talk as if they are buying but even the EVO folks made it seem as though all the cars were gone before they were even released.
But, I do think the STi will sell better due to it's low(er) price in comparison to the EVO.

What was Mits thinking? That was a high price for what appears to be a better modded WRX with BIG wheels and tires. A 5 speed? Open differential front? Over $30k with wing?
Ouch!

T

the new evo 8 is not 6 speed?

Originally posted by rentankonko
I think this FIRST run of U.S. STIs will be similar to the run of the 22B, in that when you go to buy one, they...uh...all....be like bought already. Realistically we should expect to wait until the 2005 model to be able to do the normal go-test-drive-it-and-decide-from-there type thing. I'm personally going for the EVO because of its price, availabilty, cast iron engine, and superior tarmac ability, and the fact that with a few hundred dollars it is a guarantee that power can be made to see well above the 300 mark, if necessary.
I think the only valid knock on the EVO 8 is the fact that the U.S. market will see the 5 speed, rather than the 6 speed, tranny...and that is the ONLY thing that would make me wait until the EVO 9 and, hopefully, the 6 speed...PLUS, even though I find it to be more gimicry than gadgetry, maybe the active yaw control, ECD, and traction control will be available in next run too.

I guess it will be very hard to get a test drive of the first STis... I also guess there will be markups galore.... The STi is definitely better equipped than the EVO... I'll be the first to admit it. There is however something to be said for a simpler machine. It is less likely to break in places it does not have ;)

The EVO comes with a 5 speed for this country, but IMHO, I don't miss the 6th speed. My '03 Maxima SE has the 6 speed and it's just not that usefull or that much fun. I guess it's nice to have a good high overdrive for long trips, but other than that, I don't miss it.

In stock configuration, the STi will probably spank the EVO, but as far as the ACD AYC, the reviewers who tested the car without them, all said that the EVO was more than able to handle beautifully without them. The EVO has actually had a good number of very high reviews for it's overall performance, particularly the handling.....

My experience with the car is quite good, I'm very impressed with the EVO even when compared with a good number of excellent high performance cars that I've owned and driven. It's by far faster and quicker than my modified WRX that I traded for it (Stage II, 3" turboback exhaust and Unichip/ABC). It's also faster than my supercharged Integra GSR and much faster than my turbo charged '91 Miata or my '95 type R supercharged Miata. The handling is not as neutral as the Miatas but it certainly will hang in there with them :D

Still, if the STi is gonna come in at the same price as the EVO, I'm sure going to have some regrets....

yes im sure the sti will come aroun the same price, maybe not exactly but around the same.. but it dont matter too much cause u still have an evo8 which owns a lot of cars out there. im sure a good driver in an evo8 still has a chance against a noobie sti, a lot of it has to do with driver skills too. its like a video game ;)

quote from my dealer "my district rep was here thursday and told me we will get two in late may, yours ofcourse being the first. And yes, the pricing has been confirmed $31,545.00( including the freight). Talk to you soon."

Does not include the radio. For the nay-sayers - a full package for the WRX would run 30k without the HP. (Spoilers, suspension, exhaust, etc)

I will be getting this, brakes, DCCD, IC Spray, and 75 HP.

6 speed in an STI is way more different than the 6 speed in a maxima. definitely

I really believe that the STI will end up being closer to 40 thousand dollars when all is said and done. Granted, the STI is going to be, by all accounts, a superb automobile. I like what Yellow REX said about the simpler design of the EVO too. Both of these cars, especially the EVO, have made me seriously think about selling my 98 RS, and that is crazy because I absolutely love the RS...I'm actually planning an STI engine/drivetrain swap as soon as I can find the right circumstance. As far as the 6-speed vs. 5-speed issue: I tried to downplay this issue, but it is an issue, regardless. The pivotal concern is not necessarily the presence of a sixth gear, but instead HOW the presence of a sixth gear enables the rest of the gears to be closer ratios. To me, this matters significantly because I am sort of a driving technique/racing geek, and the benefits of a closer ratio'ed gearbox with high top-end capability is more attractive. As well, one might also logically assume that the EVO 6-speed is more heavily fortified, similar to the STI 6-speed. But, regardless of this concern, I'm still leaning toward the EVO...hmmm...though the normal WRX is starting to look even better too, for some reason.:rolleyes:

rentankonko: 'I really believe that the STI will end up being closer to 40 thousand dollars when all is said and done. '

Why do you say this? I have been researching this car since Oct, and by all accounts Subaru is targeting the Evo price - even to the point of breaking even on it. I think the radio delete 'option' really is a way to shave 300-400 dollars off, so they can have another go fast goody. Taxes, tag, and fees I think 32,500 will be your baseline - with the radio being the only big option. What else is there in the parts bin?

Beyond there being possible, and anticipated, dealer mark-ups...Plainly and simply, my statement is just based upon what the current prices of 2004 STIs are in Japan and Europe, and how those prices might generally translate into U.S. dollars, as indicated by a simple currency conversion. I tended to estimate on the higher end because of, not only the unique qualities of the U.S. model, but also my personal opinion of what Subaru's market focus will be with the STI...that it would be directed towards potential BMW M3, Audi S4, and Infiniti GS consumers, for example.

But, it very well may be that the STI will be base-priced at around 32 grand. At 32,000 U.S. dollars there would be a justifiably significant price gap between it and the regular WRX...so that the necessary level of exclusivity would be achieved.

I hope I'm wrong about my projected higher price prediction. If Subaru, miraculously, can market the near-perfect STI, with all of its abundance of awesome racecar-like-features, at around 32,000 dollars...THAN I WILL ABSOLUTLEY proceed to direct all of my efforts towards aquiring one immediately.

but also my personal opinion of what Subaru's market focus will be with the STI...that it would be directed towards potential BMW M3, Audi S4, and Infiniti GS consumers, for example.
*********
I don't agree. Some of those buyers may consider and even less will actually want the STi. The buyers of those, higher luxury content, vehicles want the luxury and the brand and their resale value along with perceived qulity.
The STi buyer is a different buyer. He/She values performance and uniqueness. The STi buyer is the EVO and WRX buyer.
But there are those who consider an M3 or S4 who will look at the STi but most will pass if off. M3 and S4 performance is amazing and very much in line with the STi/EVO along with having more creature comforts and a vast array of everyday practicality which the STi/EVO don't have. The STi even more so for it's lack of stereo. You may argue that "real" enthusiasts don't car about audio systems, but I beg to differ. If I'm an M3 or S4 buyer I sure as heck am looking for those creature comforts along with my performance, such as;
heated seats, leather or similar quality materials, interior design made to impress, sunroof, etc...

I'm currently deciding between entry luxury sport-sedan and EVO.
It's a tough choice as I love performance but really wanted something nicer, quieter, everyday sport. I looked at the 04 WRX and it's too small and the seats are awful and there is NO headroom for anyone over 6' when equipped with a sunroof. The STi will be the same interior room as the WRX and that means it's smaller than the EVO in every demension in the interior.
The EVO has more headroom, and still plenty with a sunroof. There is more shoulder room, leg room, and back seat room for passengers.
That is a major consideration to me. The STi may have the edge in straight line acceleration, but on twisty bits I doubt anyone would notice any shortcomings in the EVO, and may find it handles better.
Besides, I think the EVO is a much better looking automobile than the STi.
The STi looks a bit droopy by comparison to the angular aggressive muscular stance of the EVO. I'm willing to give up the few extra HP to get the other things that will make everyday ownership more liveable.

I don't knock the STi or it's owners, it'll be one fine ride. But, we all don't like the same things and we value some things more than others. Luckily we have a choice. :) That's the good part.

T

rentankonko - would refer you to the pricing thread, but I see your point - markups will kill the market for this car and set unreasonable "resale" expectations. I have it in writing my price will not exceed MSRP, so if they screw me - I will make sure SOA understands a loyal customer was screwed and generally make an ass of myself.

As for the interior dimensions, WoRX... Have they changed the interior that much? 'Cause in my 2002 WRX I was very comfortable - good head and leg room, supportive seats, etc. I am 6 1 and 220lbs and have more issues in my mustang than the WRX. The sun roof would be an issue depending on the way it opened. I guess I never have been spoiled :) On three separate occasions I have heard Mustang GT owners wish for the WRX seats. If they were grey I would swap out a set myself.

re: M3 and S4... Don't get me wrong I would love them, but in Northern VA the M3's are like WRX's. S4's are rare, but 3 are in the parking garage. ug. looking for a more limited availability car, that is fast and can handle well in the inclimate weather. Somewhat loyal to Subaru since the listened to the market and brought the big gun to town. (a little pissed that they started with the WRX and hooked me - then enticed me to the STi :) Whereas Mitsu, waited to see the WRX impact then watered down the EVO from the JDM market.

The interior is the same size. The seats are completely different.
They don't have the same hug you in place feel. You sit more "on" the seat that "in" the seat like before. The side bolsters aren't as nice and prominent and the seat bottom doesn't have the padding it did on the 02-03.
Without the sunroof, the headroom is fine, so in the STi you should have plenty of headroom as it doesn't come with a sunroof, nor the option.

As far as interior demensions, the EVO IS bigger in all demensions to the WRX/STi. There is more headroom, leg room, shoulder, and the back seats have much more room. I like that.
And, I like the look of the EVO more. That of course is subjective. We have to decide for ourselves.
Either car, STi or EVO will be very rare and more exclusive than M3's. The new S4 should sell very well so we should see a lot of them on the road.

"Whereas Mitsu, waited to see the WRX impact then watered down the EVO from the JDM market."
**********

I don't see that this affects me at all. Even Subaru waited to bring the WRX, so what? Mits waiting to see how the WRX did is a smart decision. But, Mits failed in the pricing area. The EVO in comparison to the STi is overpriced when considering power output and technical "wow".

Also, Subaru waited twice for Mits to first announce what the EVO was powered by and how much and then they waited for EVO sales to see how much to price the STi at. So, waiting to see you competitor's mistakes or wins is not a bad or negative thing.

I'm sure you'll love the STi. :)

T

Did not know they mucked with the seat's feel - That sucks. I hope they grip my lard ass still. My wife will freak if it doesn't. That WRX was the only car she didn't b*tch about siding around in the seat when I cornered. (may need to find some WRX seats and store the STi ones :( )

The EVO should have been in the specs as JDM models. I really hated knowing the JDM EVO/STI would spank my butt and leave cash on the coffee table :)

IMHO - Subaru took the chance and I think they will benefit more overall in the long run. Mitsu was late to market and has no segway car like the WRX...

The dealer mentioned Subby waiting on the price - he knew it would be a little more, but assured me that this was planned to allow a bigger "statement," i.e. more for the money and all that. Marketing is marketing - It is all bad :) (I can say that cause I support a bunch of sales people and Marketing is always an issue :)

Given the funds... S4 would be my choice, even over the STi. Style, Class, German Engineering AWD, and an exclusivity of a limited production run. And it never hurst to love Audi Autosport in ALM and SWC.

hey guys new to the board here, if i may, let me tell you guys all about the STI. Considering i just got back from the Subaru ride and drive school for the STI, and the fact that i work at Flatirons Subaru, you can be guarenteed that the information is 100%.

the vehicle has been built as the top of the line street racing car for the U.S. Many advancements in technology have been incorporated into this vehicle. Both the normal Sub engineers and the subaru Rally engineers worked in unison to bring this great vehicle to the U.S. for sale. Base price will be right around 30,000(U.S.) the radio and floormats are considered options so if you are looking for these items take this into consideration when you are looking at your bottom dollar that you can spend
now to the specs on the car. i'll start with the suspension. The struts are upside down so the through shaft is in the lower casing of the macpherson stuyle strut. this allows for bigger suspension sleeve bushings and less flex. pair this up to the all aluminum front lower control arm and oversized sway bars with solid mount points, you have a car that has no need for strut bars.
the brakes are brembo four piston for the front and 2 piston for the rear. the front rotors are right around 12.7 inches and the rears are right around 10.6 the rotors themselves are set up with staggered teardrops between the plates to help increase structural durability as well as provide better venting/cooling for the rotor itself. at this time i am unsure if the car comes with stainless lines but if not, this would be the only upgrade for the brake system.
with the addition of the rear differential comes the dccd control. you can tailor the diff load from front to rear to cater your driving style(s). other creature comforts are a rev warner with sound and light warning(you can turn off the chime warning if you like). the rev warning can be set from 3500-7500rpm. the addition of the bigger intercooler includes a water cooled spray nozzle, which shoots out in two second bursts and is controled entirely by the driver. the seats are a recaro look alike with solid mounted head rests. they are made witha material to keep you glued to the seat under heavy driving forces.
the hid's are vertically adjustable when the rear height of the vehicle changes. this is also controlled by the driver.
radio and floor mats are optional and there are many aftermarket options available(give me a im if youare interested)
the car was not only designed for the racer but also the family that wants a performance sedan and still has needs for the children. there are tethers in the rear console to accomodate for children seats and the rear seats are all set up with three point mounting seatbelts for added security.
the transmission had dual synchros for first to second and single synchros for third through 6th. this helps the transmision ease into gear. aldo instead of using a submerged tranny ro supply oil to all the gears, subaru has put oil sprayers in the tranny to thoroughly lube all your gears.
unfortunately the tires are directional and can only be rotated from front to back. if you plan on doing winter driving or dirt road rallying you will need to get a new set of tires. other than this there isn't much room fro improvement in the sti. the flywheel and springs are the first place i would start but like i stated above this car was engineered as a solid performing race vehicle. little is needed to be done to these to get them dialed in. exhausts would be a nice upgrade and provide a meatier sound for the car considering it is amonster at 300hp and 300torque.
oh ****e, last but not least the engine.
the camshafts, intake and exhaust valves are hollow-to eliminate drivetrain mass and increase power output. the exhaust valves are sodium filled to increase cooling and the engine block is a semi-solid design so no reinforcing is needed for the block.
guys we sold all our sti's and will have more coming soon. we may have one available for test rides but on a limited basis, as you know these cras are all on backorder for about 9 months. so if you want one order it now
thanks guys

aaron uhl
aftermarket parts specialist at Flatirons Subaru-303-443-0114

i totally buy an STi over an S4 any day. i trust the the reliablity of an Subaru more than an Audi. also the S4 is way more epensive.. how sad and it is slower than an STi. hahahah anyways if u like luxury then the S4 is nice but its not like the Sti is uncomfortable... how much luxury do you need to be indulged in order to sacrifice money and performance.. well thats the S4 for you

Originally posted by downshift
i totally buy an STi over an S4 any day. i trust the the reliablity of an Subaru more than an Audi. also the S4 is way more epensive.. how sad and it is slower than an STi. hahahah anyways if u like luxury then the S4 is nice but its not like the Sti is uncomfortable... how much luxury do you need to be indulged in order to sacrifice money and performance.. well thats the S4 for you

i totally bought the STi. the new s4 or rs6 would still b an option...

Just heard reverse may be a little too tall, resulting in some tricky footwork to avoid choking or launching. Anyone actually HAVE an STI who can shed some light?