Who was it that said the Patriot act was ok?
11-06-2005, 09:13 PM
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Who was it that said the Patriot act was ok?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110501366.html
read it and weep... pretty damn sad if you ask me...
read it and weep... pretty damn sad if you ask me...
11-07-2005, 06:48 AM
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OK, I don't have time to read the whole thing right now but I did read the first few paragraphs. Were any individuals affected by this? By that I mean was any particular individual personally affected by what the FBI did?
11-07-2005, 10:26 AM
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It really isn't about if any one person is affected. It's about having the government having a trump card so that, if they wanted, they can listen to/arrest/tail anyone they want for just about any reason. Do you need something bad to happen to one person in particular to show you that the PA is a bad idea? Or can't you just reason through it yourself.
11-07-2005, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MVWRX
It really isn't about if any one person is affected. It's about having the government having a trump card so that, if they wanted, they can listen to/arrest/tail anyone they want for just about any reason. Do you need something bad to happen to one person in particular to show you that the PA is a bad idea? Or can't you just reason through it yourself.
11-07-2005, 11:48 AM
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Would you be ok with a law or prop or whatever that said you have to be patted down and searched everytime you go into or out of your house? I'm sure noone would. So where do you draw the line. History has taught us that taking away civil rights and privacy is a slippery slope that leads to too much government power and usually to coruption. Do we really need to proove this to ourselves again?
This is yet another example of how our current 'conservative' government is anything but conservative. 30 years ago, if you proposed a bill like the Patriot Act, I bet almost no republicans would have voted for it...because conservatives are supposed to limit governmental control and historically have hated intrusions on privacy. This admin should be offensive to conservatives, but you all still seem to follow him like sheep. What the hell is up with that?
This is yet another example of how our current 'conservative' government is anything but conservative. 30 years ago, if you proposed a bill like the Patriot Act, I bet almost no republicans would have voted for it...because conservatives are supposed to limit governmental control and historically have hated intrusions on privacy. This admin should be offensive to conservatives, but you all still seem to follow him like sheep. What the hell is up with that?
Last edited by MVWRX; 11-07-2005 at 11:52 AM.
11-07-2005, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MVWRX
Would you be ok with a law or prop or whatever that said you have to be patted down and searched everytime you go into or out of your house? I'm sure noone would. So where do you draw the line. History has taught us that taking away civil rights and privacy is a slippery slope that leads to too much government power and usually to coruption. Do we really need to proove this to ourselves again?
11-07-2005, 11:59 AM
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Here's an example of how, already, the PA is out of control:
Why in the world do they feel the need to keep records on people KNOWN to be innocent? That is plain old intrusion of privacy, big brother type government record keeping with no justifiable reason. Dictators do this...not leaders of democratic nations.
Originally Posted by article
In late 2003, the Bush administration reversed a long-standing policy requiring agents to destroy their files on innocent American citizens, companies and residents when investigations closed.
Why in the world do they feel the need to keep records on people KNOWN to be innocent? That is plain old intrusion of privacy, big brother type government record keeping with no justifiable reason. Dictators do this...not leaders of democratic nations.
11-07-2005, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MVWRX
Here's an example of how, already, the PA is out of control:
Why in the world do they feel the need to keep records on people KNOWN to be innocent? That is plain old intrusion of privacy, big brother type government record keeping with no justifiable reason. Dictators do this...not leaders of democratic nations.
Why in the world do they feel the need to keep records on people KNOWN to be innocent? That is plain old intrusion of privacy, big brother type government record keeping with no justifiable reason. Dictators do this...not leaders of democratic nations.
Dude, calm down and take a deep breath. Now count backwards to ten. Do you think that the gov't couldn't find out anything they wanted to know about you before the PA? You payroll, taxes, Social Security, academic and medical records are all keep places other than you're control. You're blowing this out of proportion.
11-07-2005, 12:08 PM
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But now they reserve the right to look into such info as what webpages you visit..that alone is pretty scary. I've read the anarchists handbook online (luckily it was ~10 years ago now...), but I can promise you I have NO intention of applying any of that knowledge. But if the gov't sees that I read it, they can start tracking me just for the hell of it? F*** that. I really don't think I'm blowing anything out of proportion...eroding privacy is just plain wrong.
Besides, the matter here is between COULD and WOULD...before they COULD now they have an act protecting their actions so they WILL.
Besides, the matter here is between COULD and WOULD...before they COULD now they have an act protecting their actions so they WILL.
Last edited by MVWRX; 11-07-2005 at 12:10 PM.
11-07-2005, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by MVWRX
But now they reserve the right to look into such info as what webpages you visit..that alone is pretty scary. I've read the anarchists handbook online (luckily it was ~10 years ago now...), but I can promise you I have NO intention of applying any of that knowledge. But if the gov't sees that I read it, they can start tracking me just for the hell of it? F*** that. I really don't think I'm blowing anything out of proportion...eroding privacy is just plain wrong.
OK, if you don't plan on doing it big deal. The worst case most Orwellian, Matrix possiblity is that they really do follow you only to find out that you're not doing anything wrong. Big deal. Who cares if they look at what you do on the internet. Honestly, do you have a gay **** fetish or something. I could care less if people see what I do. If them watching Bang Bus with me helps them make the country a safer place for other people to sit at home a BS on the internet then so be it.
11-07-2005, 12:16 PM
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I see your point...sort of the seatbelt argument. I still say they're taking it too far though.
And just to throw out the counter to the argument of 'has anyone had something bad happen to them yet'...noone's been stopped from doing a terrorist act yet because of the PA either.
And just to throw out the counter to the argument of 'has anyone had something bad happen to them yet'...noone's been stopped from doing a terrorist act yet because of the PA either.