Where's this Divided Country I keep hearing about?
11-05-2004, 06:28 AM
#16
More interesting maps. This one is 3d, and incorporates population density into height. Basically showing what we all know, the more densely populated areas voted Dem versus the low density Rep.
11-05-2004, 08:19 AM
#17
How about this map? Think about it. When all of these 18-29 people are older and the baby boomer generation is gone, look at how the election would have gone.
http://media.musicforamerica.org/ima...ung_ev_map.png
http://media.musicforamerica.org/ima...ung_ev_map.png
11-05-2004, 08:47 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by scoobsport98
Are you trying to marginalize the info this map depicts?
It seems to me that whenever a good counterpoint is made toward you, you seem to always avoid acknowledging that point by throwing out some unrelated, tounge-in-cheek response like the one above. They may seem harmless to you, but to others It's the equivalent of laughing at them. If you were moderate, as you claim to be, you should be able to see the other side. I guess you may to yourself- you certainly don't appear to in many cases. Or is it an ego thing where you can't publicly admit errors- in that case, I understand.
It seems to me that whenever a good counterpoint is made toward you, you seem to always avoid acknowledging that point by throwing out some unrelated, tounge-in-cheek response like the one above. They may seem harmless to you, but to others It's the equivalent of laughing at them. If you were moderate, as you claim to be, you should be able to see the other side. I guess you may to yourself- you certainly don't appear to in many cases. Or is it an ego thing where you can't publicly admit errors- in that case, I understand.
Originally Posted by scoobsport98
...Just look at the popular vote... Bush won by a WHOPPING 3%. The vote was divided nearly 50-50. I don't see how you can be serious when you say that you don't see the division in the country.
11-05-2004, 08:51 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by njc200
How about this map? Think about it. When all of these 18-29 people are older and the baby boomer generation is gone, look at how the election would have gone.
http://media.musicforamerica.org/ima...ung_ev_map.png
http://media.musicforamerica.org/ima...ung_ev_map.png
11-05-2004, 08:52 AM
#20
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Originally Posted by njc200
How about this map? Think about it. When all of these 18-29 people are older and the baby boomer generation is gone, look at how the election would have gone.
http://media.musicforamerica.org/ima...ung_ev_map.png
http://media.musicforamerica.org/ima...ung_ev_map.png
You forget people change with age and usually tend to lean more Republican with age. Shrug.
11-05-2004, 08:54 AM
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ok guys, i put together a map that should answer all our questions, and i think its far superior to every map that has been posted so far - so read it and weep, *****es.
11-05-2004, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Salty
So if the vote was divided nearly 50-50 then how is it anymore divided than 2000 when the margin of votes was 3,000,000votes closer to 50-50? Seems like it's an excuse because the Dem's lost when they honestly expected to win... pure and simple. If anything, the results of this election make it seem that the Democrats are divided from the rest of the country and have a hard time accepting it. There’s a big difference here...
Let's face it... while there was a great voter turn-out, the have-nots did not come out as faithfully as predicted. But the Bush faithful (as misguided as they may be but love him nonetheless) came out in droves.
In posting the first map Salty, your intention was to show how tremendously huge the Bush faithful indeed are. But that is a sham. Half the people in this country did not vote for the man. And is it more divided? Hell yes!! Although Bush may have edged out his opponent by a few million more votes, the anti-Bush crowd loathes, yes loathes, their president. He stands for everything that is wrong with America:
Overly prideful, arrogant, jingoistic, incorrigible political hawk, merciless, and the list goes on and on. The fruits of his tree carry no hints of compassion, respect for fellow man, or anything else that should be evident in a follower of Christ.
And now there is news that we might see a Hillary vs. Terminator election in 08... pardon me, but I think I need to yarf
11-05-2004, 09:31 AM
#25
Originally Posted by Salty
There's no doubt that the younger generation stuck to their part of the bargain for Kerry. Let's not forget that a vast majority of the baby boomer generation had the same views as the generation "X's" and Millenium voters when they wore flowers in their hair. Times were similar in the 60-70's and people mature and opinions change.
Originally Posted by Unregistered
You forget people change with age and usually tend to lean more Republican with age. Shrug.
11-05-2004, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Salty
OMG! It's a map with red and blue in it! Yes, I think the second map is a ton better so get over yourself! I posted the map because it sparks interest knowing damn well that the map wasn’t telling the entire story, scoobsport98. The bottom line is that both maps can be inaccurate because the map doesn't have a gradient on feeling toward issues, weather etc.
Originally Posted by Salty
So if the vote was divided nearly 50-50 then how is it anymore divided than 2000 when the margin of votes was 3,000,000votes closer to 50-50? Seems like it's an excuse because the Dem's lost when they honestly expected to win... pure and simple. If anything, the results of this election make it seem that the Democrats are divided from the rest of the country and have a hard time accepting it. There’s a big difference here...
Did I say that it was more divided than 2000? There you go again, avoiding (or simply not seeing) my point. I'm just trying to get it through your head that there IS a division among the country- it's not just a group of radicals outcast to the side. Say Kerry had gotten Bush's 59million, and Bush got Kerry's 55million (which could have easily happened, if it weren't for a few fatal flaws in Kerry's campaign). Would you still be saying that the country has one voice and that the 55million that voted for Bush were 'divided from the rest of the country'? Get real- try to value everyones opinion more equally. You seem to discount the 55million that disagreed with the President, just because of a different ideology. The high population centers are confronted with a greater number of modern problems that are tied to population density, about which the President has done little or nothing to reverse. The rural areas simply have not encountered these problems, and they are not face-to-face with them. So, they generally voted on 'moral values'
rather than some-may-say more important issues. You got it- this is all just an excuse cause Kerry didn't win...
Will you ever understand? Or, I guess, since Bush won, there is no need to understand the other side. Kerry would not have alienated Bush voters had he won, and Bush has not alienated those who voted against him, as you are trying to do. You seriously need to listen to that Jon Stewart Crossfire interview and see the silliness of your current stance.
You say you are moderate? That's the funniest thing I've heard all week- by any definition, a moderate would easily be able to see the clear division here.
If you ordered a pizza, and the liberal delivery guy ate 48% on the way to your house, you'd be perfectly fine with the remaing 52%? Since its over half, you can just forget about the other 48% and 'pretend' you have a whole pizza? -Does this analagy help at all?
Last edited by scoobsport98; 11-05-2004 at 09:46 AM.
11-05-2004, 09:46 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by scoobsport98
I don't think he was trying to say that... I think he was speaking as a democrat, wishing that his party could lose it's 'crazy liberal' image.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
11-05-2004, 09:47 AM
#28
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Good points Scoob. And to drill this point home, the country is more divided. Can you evere remember people hating the president as much as they do today? (Im thinking LBJ comes close, and maybe Clinton after Monica-gate)
11-05-2004, 09:54 AM
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I really don't think hating the president is the answer- Try to keep it limited to strong disagreement. It just plays into the right's argument that everyone on the left is a radical bush-hater who'd be happy with anyone else. Although that may be the truth, it does nothing to promote the argument, and it can only help to vindicate the opposing view that liberals are out of their mind.
With clinton- It was hate... because many people thought he was sleaze. But with Bush, we must realize that under his value system, the decisions he makes are justified in his mind. It's more of a difference of values and principles, and this should definitely not equate to hate. By hating someone else's values, we have dipped to the level of fundamentalist muslims- Hate does not help to slove problems, it only strengthens and fortifies the opposite view. An example of this was the country's strengthening resolve after 9/11.
I really do think that if the dems (not just Kerry) had tried to level with the right and open constructive dialouge on the issues, rather than just pour the hate on the president- Kerry would have won the election. Not everyone disagrred with Bush- the Dems should have realized this and not disrespected the executive branch as they did. This took integrity from their campaign and helped the other side win.
I think the reason Salty is saying that the Dems are divided from the rest of the country is because they all hate the president. This is flat-out false, but many people say and do things to perpetuate this idea. Liberal exteremists, in my view, have just gone off the deep end. Many have tried to level with the other side and open dialogue, but when this doesn't work, they give up, abandon the other side, and begin rolling down the left side of the hill. I do see an urgent need for change in this country, but I'm not willing to start wearing a 'buck fush' t-shirt and start spewing negative sentiment toward our own president.
With clinton- It was hate... because many people thought he was sleaze. But with Bush, we must realize that under his value system, the decisions he makes are justified in his mind. It's more of a difference of values and principles, and this should definitely not equate to hate. By hating someone else's values, we have dipped to the level of fundamentalist muslims- Hate does not help to slove problems, it only strengthens and fortifies the opposite view. An example of this was the country's strengthening resolve after 9/11.
I really do think that if the dems (not just Kerry) had tried to level with the right and open constructive dialouge on the issues, rather than just pour the hate on the president- Kerry would have won the election. Not everyone disagrred with Bush- the Dems should have realized this and not disrespected the executive branch as they did. This took integrity from their campaign and helped the other side win.
I think the reason Salty is saying that the Dems are divided from the rest of the country is because they all hate the president. This is flat-out false, but many people say and do things to perpetuate this idea. Liberal exteremists, in my view, have just gone off the deep end. Many have tried to level with the other side and open dialogue, but when this doesn't work, they give up, abandon the other side, and begin rolling down the left side of the hill. I do see an urgent need for change in this country, but I'm not willing to start wearing a 'buck fush' t-shirt and start spewing negative sentiment toward our own president.
Last edited by scoobsport98; 11-05-2004 at 10:17 AM.
11-05-2004, 09:56 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by scoobsport98
If you ordered a pizza, and the liberal delivery guy ate 48% on the way to your house, you'd be perfectly fine with the remaing 52%? Since its over half, you can just forget about the other 48% and 'pretend' you have a whole pizza? -Does this analagy help at all?