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When will it stop?

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Old Aug 20, 2005 | 11:19 AM
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When will it stop?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050820/ts_nm/bush_dc

President George W. Bush said on Saturday U.S. troops in
Iraq were fighting to protect Americans at home from more attacks like those of September 11, 2001, starting a five-day focus on his case for the war amid growing public discontent.

"Our troops know that they're fighting in Iraq,
Afghanistan, and elsewhere to protect their fellow Americans from a savage enemy," Bush said in his weekly radio address.

"They know that if we do not confront these evil men abroad, we will have to face them one day in our own cities and streets, and they know that the safety and security of every American is at stake in this war, and they know we will prevail," he said.

His comments came as the public shows more discontent with his handling of Iraq, with high-profile protests during Bush's ranch vacation and new poll results showing nearly six in 10 Americans are worrying about the outcome of the war.

Asked whether the United States was meeting its objectives in Iraq, 56 percent of those polled said it was not and 39 percent said it was. The poll is to be published in next month's issue of Foreign Affairs, the journal of the Council on Foreign relations.

Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq, became a symbol for anti-war protesters after camping near Bush's Crawford, Texas, ranch, where he is on vacation, urging him to bring U.S. troops home.

More than 1,800 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq and thousands more wounded.

The Bush administration justified going to war in Iraq in 2003 by saying it posed a threat because of stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction. None have been found.

Critics say Iraq had nothing to do with the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington and that the administration has tried to tie Iraq to terrorism since the war to justify its actions.

"In a few weeks, our country will mark the four-year anniversary of the attacks of September the 11th, 2001. On that day, we learned that vast oceans and friendly neighbors no longer protect us from those who wish to harm our people," Bush said. "And since that day, we have taken the fight to the enemy," he said.

"We're fighting the terrorists in Afghanistan, Iraq, and around the world, striking them in foreign lands before they can attack us here at home," Bush said.

Next week Bush will meet with members of the Idaho National Guard, and also see members of the Mountain Home Air Force Base who played a leading role in the air bombing campaign in Afghanistan after the September 11 attacks, Bush said. He will also address the Veterans of Foreign Wars Convention in Utah.

Bush likened the current situation to World War Two when U.S. forces "helped former enemies rebuild and form free and peaceful societies that would become strong allies of America."

He acknowledged the deaths in the current war and said: "We owe these fallen heroes our gratitude, and we offer their families our heartfelt condolences and prayers."

"Now we must finish the task that our troops have given their lives for and honor their sacrifice by completing their mission," he said.

oh and one for the history buffs..

name these quotes

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over"
"Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play."
Old Aug 20, 2005 | 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dr3d1zzl3
Blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahbl ahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahbl ahblahblahblahblah
Goebles?

Iraq has no WMDs.
Probably never did.
Iraq has oil.
Iraq has made billions selling this oil.
Where did all those billions go?
None of the 9/11/01 terrorists hailed from Iraq.
Now US troops are fighting against insurgents.

Where do these insurgents come from?
How many times since 9/11/01 has a terrorist attack occured in the US?
Why is that?

Think for yourself.
Don't rely on someone else.
Old Aug 20, 2005 | 03:12 PM
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*nods* you named it right

and my friend i make a living thinking outside of the box..

9 billion we know was stolen right out from under the eyes of our forces


and more then a few billion went into indulgences such as a 500 million dollar car collection for douche bags son.. and so on and so forth..

not to mention other party mem's
besides your diversionary tactics.. do you have a comment on bush trying to tire the iraqi war to sept 11th? i think it is a ****ing bull**** *** way to take advantage of that horrible situation..

if anything our presence in iraq is the primary reason there are so many "terrorists" for ****s sake its the best damn training ground in the world for terrorists... think of all those new techniques they are developing on a daily basis to survive.. think of how wonderful it will be in about 5 years time when those hardened and battle encrusted **** faces end up moving in next door.

What then?

No way in hell can we kill all of them, and by trying we only create more of them.. its like quicksand in a way.



back to my point

douchebags use of 911 to try and build support for his **** up (that was based on lies) is bull****. Its ****ing dishonest, dishonorable, and most of all DISRESPECTFUL in my eyes.
Old Aug 21, 2005 | 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Oaf
Iraq has no WMDs.
Probably never did.
People who ACTUALLY think that Iraq has NEVER had any WMDs is ignorant. Think of it like this. If you KNEW the police were coming to raid your house for the marijuana plants you have growing in your garage, would you NOT either: 1)hide them 2)get rid of them 3 Burn them 4)etc. If you knew someone was coming to bust you, you would do what you have to to NOT be busted. It's HUMAN NATURE to keep ourselves out of trouble. Be it putting the blame on someone else or hiding the crime.

Originally Posted by Oaf
Iraq has oil.
Iraq has made billions selling this oil.
Not long ago Salty made a thread that FURTHER proved/suggested that we're NOT in this war for oil.

Originally Posted by Oaf
Where did all those billions go?
Into new palaces, cars, vacations, other gov't funding (like testing bio warfare on Iraqi's)

Originally Posted by Oaf
None of the 9/11/01 terrorists hailed from Iraq.
True, but that doesn't mean that there are/were NO terrorists in Iraq. There are terrorists in MANY countries. Iraq just happens to be one where they had power and were more concentrated.

Originally Posted by Oaf
Now US troops are fighting against insurgents.
This was inevitable, we knew this was going to happen.

Originally Posted by Oaf
Where do these insurgents come from?
They were around LOOONG before we were ever in Iraq. They just got more purblicity once we were. Also, you can't please everyone, there will always be the few that don't like you.

Originally Posted by Oaf
How many times since 9/11/01 has a terrorist attack occured in the US? Why is that?
Cuz they made the same mistake Japan did when they attacked Pearl Harbor. They woke a sleeping giant. Hence the reason England was attacked recently and not us.

Last edited by jvick125; Aug 21, 2005 at 09:52 PM.
Old Aug 22, 2005 | 05:58 PM
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bump?
Old Aug 22, 2005 | 09:51 PM
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Do you honestly feel we are safer now than we were before the Iraqi war?
Old Aug 22, 2005 | 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Imprezastifan88
Do you honestly feel we are safer now than we were before the Iraqi war?
I cannot honestly answer that question. Because it was 9/11 that made us feel unsafe and exposed our weakness/openess. I think now that Iraq has a constituiton that we are that much more on the road to recovery.

I will say though that I think the Iraq War pissed off a lot of Muslims/Iraqis in the US. I'm not saying they're terrorists, but they ARE already here and if they wanted to attack us they have a better chance to do so. Better than the insurgents of Iraq. I don't think that they will attack us though.
Old Aug 22, 2005 | 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Imprezastifan88
Do you honestly feel we are safer now than we were before the Iraqi war?

Personally, I always feel safe.

But as a whole, I'd like to say yes.
The only proof I have is that there hasn't been another attack on US soil since 9/11/01.
Maybe it has something to do with all the terrorists being tied up for the moment in Iraq.

I'd feel a whole lot safer if the border was better protected & we became more discerning on exactly who we let share in the American dream.
Also, let's follow Europe's lead & deport those that come to our country, only to talk **** about her & blame her all the world's woes.
You're either with us, or against us.
Old Aug 22, 2005 | 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Oaf
Personally, I always feel safe.

But as a whole, I'd like to say yes.
The only proof I have is that there hasn't been another attack on US soil since 9/11/01.
Maybe it has something to do with all the terrorists being tied up for the moment in Iraq.

I'd feel a whole lot safer if the border was better protected & we became more discerning on exactly who we let share in the American dream.
Also, let's follow Europe's lead & deport those that come to our country, only to talk **** about her & blame her all the world's woes.
You're either with us, or against us.
agree 100%

tell me this dre, why do you think we havent been attacked since 9/11? is it that they like us now?

edgar,
Old Aug 23, 2005 | 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Imprezastifan88
Do you honestly feel we are safer now than we were before the Iraqi war?
This is the common misconception. Do I feel any safer right now? Well there hasn't been another attack on US soil since 9/11 but I don't think that's directly liked to OIF. But it may very well be a big factor if there aren’t any more attacks ten years from now *knocks on wood*.

Our occupation in Iraq is for a long term cause. If their government becomes stronger then we've influenced the entire region. It doesn't have to be a democracy like we know it. We already know that Sharia law will be part of the system. Regardless, if they manage to work-out everything to where they're even slightly more liberal than Iran then that's huge.

Right now, their constitution is the real bread and butter for things to unfold the intended way. Although I’m sure the Sunnis are kicking themselves in the *** for not participating the election they thought would flop, I hope they can at least agree to the terms. Even if it means the Shiites and Kurds have to settle on some issues.
Old Aug 23, 2005 | 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by zumnwrx
agree 100%

tell me this dre, why do you think we havent been attacked since 9/11? is it that they like us now?
the only problem in that equation is that Iraq didnt attack us and never would have had the capacity to do so. there have been no substantial links established between Saddam and Al-Queda or WMDs
Old Aug 23, 2005 | 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dub2w
the only problem in that equation is that Iraq didnt attack us and never would have had the capacity to do so. there have been no substantial links established between Saddam and Al-Queda or WMDs
You spin me right round baby, right round.
Like a record, baby, right round.

Again, where did all those billions of dinars go that Saddam made off of the UN's oil for food charade?
Could some of it been used for commercial flight instruction?
Nah, that could never happen.
Old Aug 23, 2005 | 03:24 PM
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Objection, speculation
Old Aug 23, 2005 | 04:56 PM
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That's really all we have to go by anymore. And the speculation comes from both sides equally. Once we get some form of documented "proof" we jump on it like rabid dogs. "See! I told you! Here's proof!" Question: If you took all the reports, articles and studies from 1980 Iraq to today and built a bridge out them, would you be willing to drive across it? There's no ****ing way any sane person would.

Even though I have pictures from Iraqi "camps" on the border from some of my blackwater/SOF friends, there's really no way to say for sure if they’re terrorist camps. Doesn’t matter if the camps weren’t on the grid maps, and murals of Muslims burning the Israeli & American flag were painted on slabs of concrete across the way from the 3 story cargo nets. If terrorists can move around like ghosts on our own turf then there's no way anyone can accurately put a finger on terrorism in another country. You know what I mean? When I look at the 9/11 commission report I often wonder how they could have been so thorough in the research when these very same people have no idea when the next domestic attack will be. If you have zero perception on what's to come, then how in the hell do you know you didn't miss anything in the past?

I try not to let these reports and findings get to me. We even buried the hatchet with the WMDs even though we knew Saddam was trying to at least manufacture them at one point. We do this as a way to move on. As if there’s an invisible deadline because the American people are just to inpatient and quick to point the finger. There's really no possible way to know for sure unless we unearth all of Iraq or were an actual terrorist training in Iraq with direct ties with Saddam. Think about it.

Last edited by Salty; Aug 23, 2005 at 05:03 PM.
Old Aug 23, 2005 | 08:42 PM
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i love debates



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