constellation

iTrader: (1)

I always see you guys talking about reformed socialism like its some terrible disease. So, i guess i'd just like to see you guys explain why it is so terrible.
Give me references to modern countries that are socialists, and why they are worse off than us.
I want to see numbers, polls, ect. If it is so terrible, then the people within should be terribly unhappy right? The standard of living should be down? Education? Health care? Please, no third world countries.
Back up your claims, and compare and contrast with america.
I want to see if it really is something awful, or just paranioa passed on from the cold war by your daddies.

deyes

Define "reformed" socialism.

constellation

iTrader: (1)

modern european.

deyes

Just look at tax laws from countries like france and tell me what you think. We have a socialist tax rate as well that seeks to punish those with wealth, and keep the rest of us from keeping and obtaining wealth. Why? Because we must have gotten the money from exploiting the poor right? Or maybe we don't know how best to spend our money? In reality its because politicians have promised our money to those that would vote for them.
In france if you make more than 47,131.00 EUR (62,691.48 USD) you are taxed at a rate of 49.58%!!! That leaves you with 23,565.00 EUR (31,345.74 USD) to make due with! Thats not including property taxes should you own your own property (an idea that socialism frowns on). Local taxes, habitation tax, fundemental tax, wealth tax, capital gains tax, and inheritance taxes to name a few. Socialism requires a rising rate tax scheme to fund its social programs like healthcare. The gap between the commoner and the rich is even more startling then in a country such as ours. You must be super wealthy to be able to live as you please, otherwise you live as the government sees fit. Where is the freedom in that? Not to mention state run media (freedom of speach anyone?) was it spain recently that elected the owner of most of the private media as its president? He then controlled all media, was under criminal investigation and then passed a law you can't prosecute the president? Socialism, true socialists believe is an interim government to a Marxist (classless) society! What a pipe dream! In reality it is designed soley to take power and freedoms away from the people.

constellation

iTrader: (1)

This doesn't sound to you like anything here does it? Not at all? No way this would ever fly here, right?

"If bin laden really hated freedom, he would have attacked sweden."

deyes

It doesn't and it wouldn't. For sure political machinations skew our media but there are so many media outlets that you can get a clearer picture if thats what you really want. But when one guy controls it all! Who the hell in America would vote for that one guy and give him control over everything we see and hear? Who in America besides socialists that is?

Bin Laden doesn't hate just freedom.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

It's part of the equation and icing on Bin Laden's cake.

Not to get too OT but it all started when infidels rested on sacred Islamic land and Saudi giving him the boot because of it.

constellation

iTrader: (1)

Uhg, i know.

Deyes, you have a fairly black-and-white view on socialism, are you sure you're not just repeating somthing your daddy told you on a fishing trip? Are you ignoring how much better it seems to work in many european countries? Or are you focusing only on the negative?

HellaDumb

iTrader: (3)

Name one socialist country that gives more global aid than the United States.

That's what I thought.

Thanks,
Hella.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

Yesterday you chastized the US for giving so much aid...don't play both sides dumbas*.

HellaDumb

iTrader: (3)

I'm not just talking about this one incident.

Thanks for playing,
Hella.

deyes

My daddy was a naturalized citizen, and a conservative liberal may he rest in peace. I do not share most of his political views. Why don't you give us some examples of how good its working? Everyone having healthcare is great but the piper is expensive. As far as black and white goes, forcing someone to do something is pretty black and white.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Visiting a democratic-socialist country is different from being an actual citizen. Actually, Britain and Germany have governments that call themselves 'Socialist,' but they do not carry out genuine socialist policies. take their economies for example... most all of them are founded on capitalism and practice capitalism even though they have "socialist" names attached to them.

I can remember asking people about the differences in government when I was stationed there for a short period of time (UK, Germany, Poland etc.) for training purposes.

They never seemed very enthusiastic with the way things were in their country. They weren't thrilled about pay (soldiers and citizens), taxes, compulsory community/military service etc.

There were a few things that they could gloat about but it wasn't anything too spectacular or better than the United States. Some of them were guaranteed a certain amount of money for college after their services ended. But it still wasn't a very large amount of money to attend a good school. It was as if everyone had their rubber band wound after being pulled from a similar mold. It was like bland soup to be honest.

I loved the stay though!

constellation

iTrader: (1)

Dear god you are an idiot.

Name one modern socialist superpower with a comparable population and economy.

constellation

iTrader: (1)

Because thats not the point of this thread - i want to hear it from you people who constantly knock it and call anyone who doesn't agree with you "socialists".

I just want to see if you really understand what you are saying.