Stimulus Bill Passes
02-13-2009, 11:34 AM
#106
plays well with others
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sac
Posts: 9,923
Car Info: your mother crazy
Saddam Hussain has weapons of mass destruction and is planning to use them on American soil. Incoming:
-Patriot act
-Cutting public education funds and redirecting the money into "war on terror".
-Every time you turn on the TV some middle-eastern guy's dirty face shows up with a terrifying headline underneath.
-Yep, he still has those WMD, more funding to find them please.
-In order for Bush Co. to get sheeple to buy this they have to use fear mongering because they have no credible sources outside Fox.
-etc etc
Has everyone just forgotten the last 8 years? You talk about fear mongering? Were you blind but now you can see? The media has ALWAYS played upon peoples fears. Happy news doesn't sell.
"I voted for Obama, but I did not loan out my intellect to him. I can still make up my own mind on whether he is right or wrong."
McCain/Palin was a joke. The last 8 years coupled with the Wall Street charade is what put us where we are today. I for one was not interested in repeating the same habits for another 4 years.
I am not convinced Barry's plan will magically fix anything, but it's a start. Getting too Socialist? Vote down propositions, write your senator/congressmen, think up a better solution and share it with others. Until you stop b**ching about it and DO something, you have no leg to stand on, sorry.
-Patriot act
-Cutting public education funds and redirecting the money into "war on terror".
-Every time you turn on the TV some middle-eastern guy's dirty face shows up with a terrifying headline underneath.
-Yep, he still has those WMD, more funding to find them please.
-In order for Bush Co. to get sheeple to buy this they have to use fear mongering because they have no credible sources outside Fox.
-etc etc
Has everyone just forgotten the last 8 years? You talk about fear mongering? Were you blind but now you can see? The media has ALWAYS played upon peoples fears. Happy news doesn't sell.
"I voted for Obama, but I did not loan out my intellect to him. I can still make up my own mind on whether he is right or wrong."
McCain/Palin was a joke. The last 8 years coupled with the Wall Street charade is what put us where we are today. I for one was not interested in repeating the same habits for another 4 years.
I am not convinced Barry's plan will magically fix anything, but it's a start. Getting too Socialist? Vote down propositions, write your senator/congressmen, think up a better solution and share it with others. Until you stop b**ching about it and DO something, you have no leg to stand on, sorry.
wheres the "Change"
02-13-2009, 11:47 AM
#108
iClub Silver Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Participating in some Anarchy!
Posts: 15,494
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
Saddam Hussain has weapons of mass destruction and is planning to use them on American soil. Incoming:
-Patriot act
-Cutting public education funds and redirecting the money into "war on terror".
-Every time you turn on the TV some middle-eastern guy's dirty face shows up with a terrifying headline underneath.
-Yep, he still has those WMD, more funding to find them please.
-In order for Bush Co. to get sheeple to buy this they have to use fear mongering because they have no credible sources outside Fox.
-etc etc
Has everyone just forgotten the last 8 years? You talk about fear mongering? Were you blind but now you can see? The media has ALWAYS played upon peoples fears. Happy news doesn't sell.
"I voted for Obama, but I did not loan out my intellect to him. I can still make up my own mind on whether he is right or wrong."
McCain/Palin was a joke. The last 8 years coupled with the Wall Street charade is what put us where we are today. I for one was not interested in repeating the same habits for another 4 years.
I am not convinced Barry's plan will magically fix anything, but it's a start. Getting too Socialist? Vote down propositions, write your senator/congressmen, think up a better solution and share it with others. Until you stop b**ching about it and DO something, you have no leg to stand on, sorry.
-Patriot act
-Cutting public education funds and redirecting the money into "war on terror".
-Every time you turn on the TV some middle-eastern guy's dirty face shows up with a terrifying headline underneath.
-Yep, he still has those WMD, more funding to find them please.
-In order for Bush Co. to get sheeple to buy this they have to use fear mongering because they have no credible sources outside Fox.
-etc etc
Has everyone just forgotten the last 8 years? You talk about fear mongering? Were you blind but now you can see? The media has ALWAYS played upon peoples fears. Happy news doesn't sell.
"I voted for Obama, but I did not loan out my intellect to him. I can still make up my own mind on whether he is right or wrong."
McCain/Palin was a joke. The last 8 years coupled with the Wall Street charade is what put us where we are today. I for one was not interested in repeating the same habits for another 4 years.
I am not convinced Barry's plan will magically fix anything, but it's a start. Getting too Socialist? Vote down propositions, write your senator/congressmen, think up a better solution and share it with others. Until you stop b**ching about it and DO something, you have no leg to stand on, sorry.
Bush was a failure; couldn't win a war to save his life.
Dems supported the war as well.
So just how is Barry's Plan a "good start"?
PS: you have no idea how politically involved I am, so your "no leg" comment is ignorance.
02-13-2009, 11:51 AM
#109
iClub Silver Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Participating in some Anarchy!
Posts: 15,494
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
Democrats Delay Bill Release to Conceal Details
So much for openness & transparency.
So much for openness & transparency.
Democratic staffers released the final version of the stimulus bill at about 11 p.m. last night after delaying the release for hours to put it into a format which people cannot “search” on their home computers.
Instead of publishing the bill as a regular internet document -- which people can search by “key words” and otherwise, the Dems took hours to convert the final bill from the regular searchable format into “pdf” files, which can be read but not searched.
Instead of publishing the bill as a regular internet document -- which people can search by “key words” and otherwise, the Dems took hours to convert the final bill from the regular searchable format into “pdf” files, which can be read but not searched.
02-13-2009, 12:13 PM
#111
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: san francisco, ca
Posts: 1,588
Car Info: 06 wrx wagon
writing Pelosi would be a waste of bandwidth. the summary page from her office is full of lies... i glanced through 150+pages of the 700+ and had to stop because i got pissed off. i hate being lied to.
dems, reps, doesn't matter. the legislators in washington are all crooked politicians.
dems, reps, doesn't matter. the legislators in washington are all crooked politicians.
02-13-2009, 12:13 PM
#112
How would anything be a "start"? It is an attempt to release funds back into the system. Is it flawless? Hell no... but at this point nothing will be.
From what I have gathered from Dem/Rep economical arguments it boils down to this: would you rather have a hell of a lot of short term debt? Or have a little less debt spread over many many years?
Bush or no Bush, you cannot win a war on terrorism. It's like trying to shoot a shadow. There are no clear enemies. It is an ideal and a conviction (one that has been around for hell... 2.3 thousand years?) that Bush tried to fight with physical weapons. All while lying to the public about motives and intelligence. As much as I blame his administration, I blame the American people equally for eating up his and the media's bull**it.
02-13-2009, 12:15 PM
#113
Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: I was up above it, now I'm down in it
Posts: 5,686
Car Info: New Government Motors SUV!
Now what? Nobody wanted to listen to "Bush said this and did that" except for the people who were saying it. Now we get to hear it all over again, but coming from the other side. How fun.
02-13-2009, 12:22 PM
#114
Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: I was up above it, now I'm down in it
Posts: 5,686
Car Info: New Government Motors SUV!
02-13-2009, 12:51 PM
#116
Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: I was up above it, now I'm down in it
Posts: 5,686
Car Info: New Government Motors SUV!
We can say that the government is too late, which it should be since it shouldn't interfere with a functioning economy anyway. We can also assume that it is too little seeing that banks won't lend, people won't invest, and consumers won't purchase goods.
But there's no way of knowing how much worse and how much longer each recession will last if we all just sit it out. I'd prefer it we did sit it out, but looking at the rapid job losses and banks and corporations are in real jeopardy, a bail out could soften the blow and force the recession to hit the bottom. We're going to find out in the next year.
02-13-2009, 01:08 PM
#118
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: san francisco, ca
Posts: 1,588
Car Info: 06 wrx wagon
Again, economic evidence based on assumptions and refutable logic.
We can say that the government is too late, which it should be since it shouldn't interfere with a functioning economy anyway. We can also assume that it is too little seeing that banks won't lend, people won't invest, and consumers won't purchase goods.
But there's no way of knowing how much worse and how much longer each recession will last if we all just sit it out. I'd prefer it we did sit it out, but looking at the rapid job losses and banks and corporations are in real jeopardy, a bail out could soften the blow and force the recession to hit the bottom. We're going to find out in the next year.
We can say that the government is too late, which it should be since it shouldn't interfere with a functioning economy anyway. We can also assume that it is too little seeing that banks won't lend, people won't invest, and consumers won't purchase goods.
But there's no way of knowing how much worse and how much longer each recession will last if we all just sit it out. I'd prefer it we did sit it out, but looking at the rapid job losses and banks and corporations are in real jeopardy, a bail out could soften the blow and force the recession to hit the bottom. We're going to find out in the next year.
does it help people that are already over-leveraged and over-spent do be encouraged to take on more debt and buy more sh** they don't need? (voicing personal opinion, now taking the offensive)
Last edited by pignoseWRX; 02-13-2009 at 01:10 PM.
02-13-2009, 02:46 PM
#119
Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: I was up above it, now I'm down in it
Posts: 5,686
Car Info: New Government Motors SUV!
02-13-2009, 03:14 PM
#120
Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: I was up above it, now I'm down in it
Posts: 5,686
Car Info: New Government Motors SUV!
is a falling economy not still a "functioning" one? (asking opinion, not attacking) i see it as a "working" (air quotes, perhaps operating is a better word) one that's not doing very well.
does it help people that are already over-leveraged and over-spent do be encouraged to take on more debt and buy more sh** they don't need? (voicing personal opinion, now taking the offensive)
does it help people that are already over-leveraged and over-spent do be encouraged to take on more debt and buy more sh** they don't need? (voicing personal opinion, now taking the offensive)
Another problem is what kind of spending will help keeping in mind that tax cuts are a form of government spending. The problem with that is that we've had tax cuts during the last presidency and we are still in this mess.
One political party will lead you too believe that we just need more tax cuts. Much of the population doesn't believe tax cuts are enough at this point. So there's lost credibility in that.
Another party will lead you to believe that spending money on modernization of infrastructure will create more jobs. But they can't give any evidence to show how many and how long those jobs will last. So credibility is lost there via the form of uncertainty.
The old proverb of Laissez-faire has never existed in the form of pure capitalism in modern history. Historically there's nothing to reference to as to wether the theory pans out. The US economy has always had forms of government intervention through regulations, trad policies, taxes, etc. The question is how much government involvement is necessary to keep capitalism going without suffocating it (government socialism).
So, the American public is skeptical of all three ideas (only tax cuts, more government subsidizing/loans, and an absolute free market). There are very intelligent people for each view that can be very convincing, but neither one of these will be openly accepted without a high amount of criticism from other points of view.
One of the few things that are apparent is that during each major recession, in America there has been increased government spending to mitigate the damage and we've recovered after each event. Looking at it this way may explain why it's happening yet again. Right or wrong, the idea is that it's what's consistently been done before and the economy survived, so doing it yet again may be the safe way.
Sorry for the longwindedness, but I thought it was needed to get a point across.