Soldier Says 'Back-Door Draft' Being Used Illegally
11-08-2004, 11:05 AM
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Soldier Says 'Back-Door Draft' Being Used Illegally
National Guardsman Could Be Sent To Iraq In Two Weeks
UPDATED: 11:34 AM EST November 8, 2004
SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- A National Guard soldier who has been ordered to duty in Iraq is challenging the involuntarily extension of his enlistment.
The "stop-loss" program extends enlistment during war or national emergencies. It could keep tens of thousands of personnel in the military beyond their expected time of service.
The Army National Guardsman, who isn't being identified by name, argues the policy doesn't apply to the National Guard. His lawyers said the provision can legally be used only when Congress declares war, which it hasn't in Iraq.
UPDATED: 11:34 AM EST November 8, 2004
SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- A National Guard soldier who has been ordered to duty in Iraq is challenging the involuntarily extension of his enlistment.
The "stop-loss" program extends enlistment during war or national emergencies. It could keep tens of thousands of personnel in the military beyond their expected time of service.
The Army National Guardsman, who isn't being identified by name, argues the policy doesn't apply to the National Guard. His lawyers said the provision can legally be used only when Congress declares war, which it hasn't in Iraq.
Salty, what is your take on something like this? The whole part about congress not actually declaring war on Iraq seems to hold some ground but I don't know enough about military affairs to really make a judgement.
11-08-2004, 11:22 AM
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The stop was alive and well when I got out in 2003 just after Afghanistan and Operation Anaconda. The stop loss was lifted for 11series soldiers shortly after and I got out of the service. I know the same thing happened for Paul (Oaf) during Desert Storm V1.0.
This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone in uniform. Everyone is aware of the stop-loss program and takes that risk when signing the papers. You're not signing toilet paper before you swear-in at your local MEPS station, those words on the papers actually mean something as you apply your wet signature. Just like any other properly executed black signature on legitimate documents is binding...
I'm so sick of soldiers claiming the NG/Reserves is excluded simply because they got in over their head and didn't know what they were getting into. If he gets by on the 'congress not declaring war' loophole then I guess he lucky...
This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone in uniform. Everyone is aware of the stop-loss program and takes that risk when signing the papers. You're not signing toilet paper before you swear-in at your local MEPS station, those words on the papers actually mean something as you apply your wet signature. Just like any other properly executed black signature on legitimate documents is binding...
I'm so sick of soldiers claiming the NG/Reserves is excluded simply because they got in over their head and didn't know what they were getting into. If he gets by on the 'congress not declaring war' loophole then I guess he lucky...
11-08-2004, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Salty
I'm so sick of soldiers claiming the NG/Reserves is excluded simply because they got in over their head and didn't know what they were getting into. If he gets by on the 'congress not declaring war' loophole then I guess he lucky...
One of the most upstanding men I have ever met...
Last edited by SilverScoober02; 11-08-2004 at 11:50 AM.
11-08-2004, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Salty
I know the same thing happened for Paul (Oaf) during Desert Storm V1.0.
If I'd just taken two less days of leave that summer....
Yes, it sucked having to turn in my ID card to get one that had an ETS date 5 YEARS in the future!
Yes, everyone in my platoon *****ed for a few days but then we settled down & carried on with the business at hand.
In a related story, we received a platoon-worth of recalled soldiers. Talk about some pissed off campers...this one E4 was a Junior in college when he was recalled....he had served with 7th ID in that Panama thing.
Upper management decided that it would be best to put a few of these "recalls" in each platoon, which had the net effect of lowering everyone's morale.
The fix: Consolidate all the "recalls" into one platoon. Picture 36 guys looking like they've slept in their BDUs for a month, boots that have never been polished, etc.
Don't know what ever happened to those poor bastards.
11-08-2004, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Oaf
Ooooh, don't get me started about Stop Loss...I missed the terminal leave cut off by two freaking days!
If I'd just taken two less days of leave that summer....
If I'd just taken two less days of leave that summer....
.One of the battalion S1 PAC NCO's was a drinking buddy of mine. So when it was time block leave I'd be sure to work out a personal deal with him free of charge to "loose" my papers.
The price of business was simple and helped me out too. We normally charged $30-60 for others to do the same. They'd ask me to talk to the PAC NCO and I'd take the appropriate handling fee of about 25%. haha.
I actually came down to use -or- loose twice for me and 68days of terminal leave
That was just the icing on the cake a far as how corrupt the Army made me...
11-08-2004, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Salty
Let's see... I took block leave every single time and never lost a day on my LES .
One of the battalion S1 PAC NCO's was a drinking buddy of mine. So when it was time block leave I'd be sure to work out a personal deal with him free of charge to "loose" my papers.
The price of business was simple and helped me out too. We normally charged $30-60 for others to do the same. They'd ask me to talk to the PAC NCO and I'd take the appropriate handling fee of about 25%. haha.
I actually came down to use -or- loose twice for me and 68days of terminal leave
That was just the icing on the cake a far as how corrupt the Army made me...
.One of the battalion S1 PAC NCO's was a drinking buddy of mine. So when it was time block leave I'd be sure to work out a personal deal with him free of charge to "loose" my papers.
The price of business was simple and helped me out too. We normally charged $30-60 for others to do the same. They'd ask me to talk to the PAC NCO and I'd take the appropriate handling fee of about 25%. haha.
I actually came down to use -or- loose twice for me and 68days of terminal leave
That was just the icing on the cake a far as how corrupt the Army made me...
Some revealing details from Salty...hahaha
11-08-2004, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Salty
The price of business was simple and helped me out too. We normally charged $30-60 for others to do the same. They'd ask me to talk to the PAC NCO and I'd take the appropriate handling fee of about 25%. haha.
I actually came down to use -or- loose twice for me and 68days of terminal leave
That was just the icing on the cake a far as how corrupt the Army made me...
I actually came down to use -or- loose twice for me and 68days of terminal leave
That was just the icing on the cake a far as how corrupt the Army made me...
11-08-2004, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by dub2w
they would be court-martialed by all the Sgt Slaughters on this board
11-08-2004, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dub2w
I would hate to see what would happen if somebody else posted this... they would be court-martialed by all the Sgt Slaughters on this board
The supply SGT would habitually order too much food for when we were playing war games.
Then, at the end of said war games, we would take all of the unused food, mostly canned T rations, to the dump at Yakima Firing Center and toss 'em in...after poking a hole in each can with a bayonet.
I literally disposed of thousands of $ worth of very good food.
When asked why we do this, the supply sgt said that he has to order too much so that he gets enough, but he he turned in the excess, he was worried that the next time he ordered he would be shorted.
Strange ****ing logic to me.
11-09-2004, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Oaf
Your post brings back a lot of memories of the waste I saw & participated in while at Fort Lewis. I wish I had a video camera back then.
The supply SGT would habitually order too much food for when we were playing war games.
Then, at the end of said war games, we would take all of the unused food, mostly canned T rations, to the dump at Yakima Firing Center and toss 'em in...after poking a hole in each can with a bayonet.
I literally disposed of thousands of $ worth of very good food.
When asked why we do this, the supply sgt said that he has to order too much so that he gets enough, but he he turned in the excess, he was worried that the next time he ordered he would be shorted.
Strange ****ing logic to me.
The supply SGT would habitually order too much food for when we were playing war games.
Then, at the end of said war games, we would take all of the unused food, mostly canned T rations, to the dump at Yakima Firing Center and toss 'em in...after poking a hole in each can with a bayonet.
I literally disposed of thousands of $ worth of very good food.
When asked why we do this, the supply sgt said that he has to order too much so that he gets enough, but he he turned in the excess, he was worried that the next time he ordered he would be shorted.
Strange ****ing logic to me.
Have you ever had a ammo point NCO dump thousands of rounds of 7.62/5.56 linked along with live ordnance into a lake for the very same reason?!
Well someone from one of my sister units did that and is still paying the price.