Rebel Cities to Be Retaken in October *UPDATE:The Groundbreaking offensive has begun*
09-29-2004, 11:57 AM
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Rebel Cities to Be Retaken in October *UPDATE:The Groundbreaking offensive has begun*
If we they manage to pull this off then Iraq has a serious chance to turn itself around.
If it wasn't for the insurgent cells within these cities, the U.S. probably would have implemented a major pull out plan some time ago -and- the new Iraqi government would be damn near self-supportive. If they don't put their money where there mouth is on this plan then it'll get worse.
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.S. and Iraqi forces will retake rebel-held cities in Iraq (news - web sites) in October, Defense Minister Hazim al-Shalaan told Reuters on Wednesday.
"You wait and see what we are going to do. We are going to take all these cities in October," Shalaan said.
The western cities of Falluja and Ramadi, as well as some parts of Baghdad and the town of Samarra, north of the capital, are effectively controlled by insurgents.
The U.S. military has previously said it will retake these areas by the end of the year so elections can go ahead as scheduled in January.
U.S. commanders say they are waiting until Iraqi forces are large enough and sufficiently trained for the offensive.
"You wait and see what we are going to do. We are going to take all these cities in October," Shalaan said.
The western cities of Falluja and Ramadi, as well as some parts of Baghdad and the town of Samarra, north of the capital, are effectively controlled by insurgents.
The U.S. military has previously said it will retake these areas by the end of the year so elections can go ahead as scheduled in January.
U.S. commanders say they are waiting until Iraqi forces are large enough and sufficiently trained for the offensive.
10-01-2004, 11:25 AM
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Dear God... 109:1 ratio on the first city! 
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/me...ain/index.html
This is it!
If we manage to pull off these offensives then we have a major chance at turning this entire mess around!
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/me...ain/index.html
SAMARRA, Iraq (CNN) -- At least 109 insurgents and one American soldier were killed overnight in a major offensive launched by U.S. and Iraqi forces in the city of Samarra, U.S. military officials said Friday.
In the largest operation seen in Iraq's Sunni Triangle city in months, an estimated 3,000 U.S. troops moved into Samarra late Thursday. It was a response to what the United States called "repeated and unprovoked attacks by anti-Iraqi forces."
In the largest operation seen in Iraq's Sunni Triangle city in months, an estimated 3,000 U.S. troops moved into Samarra late Thursday. It was a response to what the United States called "repeated and unprovoked attacks by anti-Iraqi forces."
If we manage to pull off these offensives then we have a major chance at turning this entire mess around!
10-01-2004, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Salty
Dear God... 109:1 ratio on the first city! 
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/me...ain/index.html
This is it!
If we manage to pull off these offensives then we have a major chance at turning this entire mess around!
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/me...ain/index.html
This is it!
If we manage to pull off these offensives then we have a major chance at turning this entire mess around!
10-01-2004, 12:31 PM
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I have never heard of MOUT statistics like these! Commanders always expect a decent number of casualties when conducting an urban offensive. This is truly unbelievable and I think Oaf would agree thus far.
Let's hope we can maintain this violence of action & momentum till every city is under our control.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._re_mi_ea/iraq
Let's hope we can maintain this violence of action & momentum till every city is under our control.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._re_mi_ea/iraq
Qasim Dowoud, minister of state for National Security, said more than 100 insurgents were killed and 37 others captured, including members of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime. No foreign Arab fighters were captured, he said. A CNN correspondent embedded with the 1st Infantry Division reported that an estimated 3,000 U.S. troops moved into Samarra and 109 insurgents were killed.
Operations were continuing but the city was virtually in government hands, Dowoud said. The main mosque, one of Iraq (news - web sites)'s holiest, had been seized, along with the city hall, a pharmaceutical factory and other installations, he added. Earlier, the Interior Ministry said Iraqi and U.S. forces controlled more than 80 percent of the city by Friday afternoon...
...One American soldier was killed and four were wounded, said Master Sgt. Robert Powell, spokesman for the 1st Infantry Division.
Operations were continuing but the city was virtually in government hands, Dowoud said. The main mosque, one of Iraq (news - web sites)'s holiest, had been seized, along with the city hall, a pharmaceutical factory and other installations, he added. Earlier, the Interior Ministry said Iraqi and U.S. forces controlled more than 80 percent of the city by Friday afternoon...
...One American soldier was killed and four were wounded, said Master Sgt. Robert Powell, spokesman for the 1st Infantry Division.
10-01-2004, 12:45 PM
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So far the fighting sounds like it's going our way...I don't wanna jinx anything, but the casualty figures are fantastic given that it's Urban Warfare.
The desired minimum ratio of attackers versus defenders is 3:1, and something like 6 or 9:1 in urban environments.
I want this to be the start of the end.
The desired minimum ratio of attackers versus defenders is 3:1, and something like 6 or 9:1 in urban environments.
I want this to be the start of the end.
10-01-2004, 01:57 PM
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What will happen when we leave will tell the real story. And I pray that no children where killed by any of us. We can control the city by force but when we leave what then? Are we going to stay in Iraq policing forever? Im just greatly excited though that only 1 of our men died. And my prayers go out to his family.
10-01-2004, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
What will happen when we leave will tell the real story.
Originally Posted by Unregistered
And I pray that no children where killed by any of us.
Originally Posted by Unregistered
We can control the city by force but when we leave what then? Are we going to stay in Iraq policing forever? Im just greatly excited though that only 1 of our men died. And my prayers go out to his family.
But I can tell you that these insurgents and recent guerilla style strikes are keeping the Iraqi government from gaining any ground. The only possible way for the Iraqi government to flourish is if we eliminate insurgent presence and gain control of the borders.
Then and only then can we even consider pulling out troops. I'm not sure if we'll always have a presence in Iraq but i'm pretty sure we'll always have a strong influence on the government. If we completely withdrawal from Iraq then the only reason insurgents would strike would be based on the western style democracy being practiced. Let's just hope they‘re not willing to stoop that low…
Last edited by Salty; 10-01-2004 at 02:30 PM.
10-01-2004, 03:55 PM
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I agree with you but at the sametime I disagree with certain points.
The reason Im afraid that any innocents will be killed, is that they will be made as reasons of how evil we are. And further their own cause.
I think closing the borders is a step in the right direction but we will see if that will change the attitude the Iraqies have toward us. We really need to work on getting other nations inside Iraq. We need them there to show that we are not trying to run Iraq for our own beliefs, but have them decide their own future. If its just us, the people won't believe that. IMHO atleast.
I won't say I have the answers but I hope we can end this and get as soon as possible.
The reason Im afraid that any innocents will be killed, is that they will be made as reasons of how evil we are. And further their own cause.
I think closing the borders is a step in the right direction but we will see if that will change the attitude the Iraqies have toward us. We really need to work on getting other nations inside Iraq. We need them there to show that we are not trying to run Iraq for our own beliefs, but have them decide their own future. If its just us, the people won't believe that. IMHO atleast.
I won't say I have the answers but I hope we can end this and get as soon as possible.
10-01-2004, 07:43 PM
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I agree with your statements about wishing that other nations would be helping us.
Remember, though, that we asked others to participate but, for whatever reasons, they declined.
And, I don't see how electing Kerry will change that.
Remember, though, that we asked others to participate but, for whatever reasons, they declined.
And, I don't see how electing Kerry will change that.
10-01-2004, 09:42 PM
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If I understand it correctly, we expect them to take risks but no profits from taking those risks. The US has full control of all the contracts and won't give any of them up. So hence they lose lives they lose money and get nothing in return except fixing out mess. So I believe what Kerry stated was that he would allow them to get in the contracts, hence giving them a reason to help us.
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