gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...rmy_recruiting

Any takers?

HellaDumb

iTrader: (3)

If I didn't already have a family I'd join up in a second. I do feel for those with families and financial obligations here at home that are being called up.

"Last week the Army announced that the National Guard and Reserve were raising the maximum age for recruits from 34 to 39 in order to expand the pool of potential enlistees." I think this is a good move, because there are a lot of people in there 30s who never before considered the Armed forces who are actively looking for a way to help their country.

On athother note, they (marines in particular, but "armed forces" in general) are probably turning away more potential recruits by prosecuting Pantano, a proven patriot.

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

The thing that frustrates me is that the primary objection that we hear is 'I don't want to go to war'. Read: I don't want to die or be maimed.

I have been to 3 separate 'wars' in my career and I am still alive. As a matter of fact, the only time I saw any 'combat' was 16 years ago in Panama. While I was in Kosovo and Afghanistan, I felt as though I might as well have been in Qatar...or even in the Mojave, California.

The odds of anyone seeing any combat, let alone, being engaged in a direct or indirect firefight, are so small. Shoot, there are actually pretty positive odds that someone who joined up to serve in a non-combat arms job would never even leave their stateside or Germany or ROK duty location.

As to the LT Pantano issue, I'm going to have to do some research before I make any comment.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Reminds me of that one political cartoon you posted with the liberal saying "it's too hard!"

I think the Army needs to ditch the whole Army of one crap. I thought so from the very beginning and I’m sure you and your NCO's joke about now and then. I enjoy the commercial when those SF guys are overlooking the objective without supplies and the other one with the scout platoon creeping through the forest. But I think it's the wrong angle because they really addresses dedication in those commercials. Who wants to go without rations for 5 days or train in a 1yr pipeline before seeing a unit? I think they're cool for prior service folk but not for recruits.

I'll tell you what really fires me up. Those awesome NAVY commercials. They have that famous actor narration (forget that black dudes name but I think it's Keith David) and Godsmack to play the background. I see a team jumping out of a Blackhawk and a bunch of men jumping into the water from a ****hook and I say "I did that" in my head. It's highly motivational and I seriously get fired-up to do it again. The great part about those commercials is that they never once dwell on how hard it is too get through BUDs.

Then the kids get the NAVY idea in their head and talk to their salty grandfather about enlisting. Then they start to realize that going SOF would be hard but boy would it be fun to do a 4yr enlistment to every part of the globe on that boat!

The Army needs to make everything seem like peaches and cream. Get a good James Earl Jones narration to talk about the Golden Knights as they swoop down into a football stadium. Do the entire commercial off Pink Floyds “Run like hell” or any White Zombie song. Do not dwell on how hard it will be. They'll find out how hard it will be when you sell that RIP/SWCbaby contract. Give ARMY recruiters a chance to get a full truck to MEPS every week. If I went around telling clients how hard it was going to be to buy their home then I'd be out of a job.

svxr8dr

iTrader: (1)

Good article on the Pantono case
http://washingtontimes.com/national/...0309-2153r.htm

HellaDumb

iTrader: (3)

Actual sworn statement of one "witness:"
http://www.starnewsonline.com/assets/pdf/WM288336.PDF
(It does sound a little "fishy," but dude... it's a friggen war)

Actual charges:
http://www.starnewsonline.com/assets/pdf/WM280736.PDF

dub2w

wow. that statement is written in Salty-speak! I guess it isnt made up after all

:banana:

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

Here is what I'm faced with. The Navy produces a great ad campaign...we benefit. The USMC's publicity affects us as well, as does the Indiana Army National Guard recruiter who is charged with sexually assaulting some of his female applicants, as well as the Abu Ghiraib scandal. What a black eye. As a person, I struggle to blame those individuals acting as free radicals, but as a soldier I know I can't blame anyone but the Army. We should have had some form of preventative measures in place to ensure that none of those incidents happened. It's difficult to prognosticate EVERYTHING that could go wrong, but that's our task.

What I'd have to say about all of this is that right or wrong, we in the Army are affected. I can't, as an Army Officer, shrug off responsibility for any of those things as we are all one force. All of those incidents, et al., are borne on our shoulders and due to the Constitution we are rightfully subject to the collective desires of the public, albeit communicated through the votes of the elected officials.

The soldier serves the American people:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...1-13/chap1.htm

I just wish that the will of the people was a little less critical...but that will never be. Not that they shouldn't be so critical towards misbehavior and crime that servicemembers or the military as a whole may commit, but when you watch the television, it seems as though there is an increasing number of American citizens who hate the servicemember. The military is a gargantuan organization with a lot of good qualities, but unfortunately, due to our whole foundation, we do HAVE to be kept in check. We have very clear rules. We police ourselves.

Let's talk about the killing of an unarmed 'combatant' or two situation for a second. Remember what COL Nathan R Jessup said, to paraphrase, about how civilians will never fully understand the sacrifice that servicemembers endure in order to provide that 'blanket of freedom'. Well, what happened to the COL? It doesn't matter WHAT a soldier has to go through. It is nice to be acknowledged by the American people, but regardless, no matter how tough our life can become, it is never correct to blame a murder on the 'stress of combat'. Hey, I can say that. I've been there. Now, don't misunderstand me. I feel for anyone who's endured or is enduring that stress, but there is a very tangible logic to the Army's Rules of Engagement. You only shoot who is shooting or about to shoot you, or those who are unfortunately in the way of accomplishing a mission.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Exactly.

Aside from blaming the individual soldiers for their actions, I blame the media for this at a very close second. I believe this falls into the "infinitely flat horizon" argument I use for OIF coverage. We see all these car bombings and get the idea that the battle field is 5miles in diameter.

We put a noose around everything bad in the military and instill it into the public’s minds as if what’s happening is uniform throughout every branch of service. Fact is, this is just small percentage of the "gargantuan organization with a lot of good qualities" and service members.

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

Salty, the only thing I'd add is that it's hard to defend ourselves when we have events, however rare, such as Abu Ghiraib. I'm convinced that those soldiers were in fact inebriated with this new sense of power, but their supervisors were grossly negligent in their lack of supervision and enforcement of standards.

My dad always told me when I would leave something valuable unsecured, 'don't make a thief out of an honest man.' In other words, Joe (the euphemistic name we give to our soldiers as a whole) will do whatever he can get away with.

Finally, my concluding remark would be that if the Army allows it's 'Joe's' to run amok, the military would become a VERY unpopular organization with no good qualities.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

It's too bad is has to be this way. I don't think it's a direct result of poor supervision. Supervision is just a deterrent for these types of events. Where exactly do you draw the line and bestow personal responsibility in Soldiers? What responsibility comes with being a Marine, Sailor, Airmen and Solider? What's the point of holding them to a higher standard than civilians when Joe will run amuck without supervision?

Although I believe supervision is absolutely necessary, I don't think it has much to do with solider's behavior unless of course it's grossly negligent supervision. I think it boils down to how they were raised and how many brain cells are at work in their inbreed head. You know which Soldier I’m referring to. There are those you could trust and those that were plain trouble.

I think it's an absolute must but I think you CO's beat yourself over it too damn much. If you think they’re slacking too much then smoke the **** out the NCO’s.

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

Well, by supervision I meant how a good supervisor/manager/leader will over time be able to influence his folks to do the right thing when no one's looking.

There are those who you wonder about and those you KNOW who will mess up when they are not being supervised. I see quite a few in this job who I really wonder about, but you know while I don't believe that old adage of 'there are no bad soldiers, only bad leaders' there is a grain of truth to it.

I've seen many smartass or bored kids who get a kick out of pushing the envelope, but I've also seen those same kids really blossom when they start working for a caring, unwavering Sergeant. As a matter of fact, I know some NCO's who always try to get those type of kids to come and work for them because they know that they were exactly like that kid when they were a private.

I've seen some who seemed to be just biding their time until their contract is completed who turned out to be icy-veined and as reliable as the sun rising when under fire.

I've seen some who were as clean cut and as reliable as could be when we were back in garrison but who freeze up and or run when the pressure gets too high.

I guarantee you that if PFC England's Sergeant had an ounce of Gunny Hartman from Full Metal Jacket in him, that PFC England nor anyone else who's currently charged or convicted would have given two thoughts towards mistreating those prisoners.

Anyhow, if anyone is wondering why this discussion seems so off topic, it really isn't. The Army can't recruit as well as it needs to right now. That's due to more than a few factors; one of which is due to the perception that the American youth have of us. Another is because the recruiting-aged folks don't trust 'the brass' and feel that if they were to enlist, the would most certainly become cannon-fodder and sent to the front lines without any training nor the proper equipment. That seems like a whole lot to ask of anyone, let alone the computer age generation. What they call in the Army Recruiting world, the Millenia Generation.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Speaking of the Millenniums... I'm curious as to how many recruits mentioned the "America’s Army" Online Game as a factor in their decision to join.

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

Ha ha ha.

Well, I don't think it would have been considered a Dominant Buying Motivation in any more than, say, 10%. There are quite a few programs that the Army has dumped quite a bit of dough into that would make you scratch your head about.

For instance, I could buy the fact that sponsoring Joe Nemechek's car at least spreads the word. Puts a public face on the Army, as well as energizing our image. It might not put anybody in, but it might open the door for recruiters across the nation.

Now on the other hand, the Army sponsoring a rodeo team doesn't do me a lick of good.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

They need to start young. Damn cigarette companies were on to something if you ask me. Cut a contract with Chuck E Cheese with a bunch of military rides and games. Turn the colored ***** into OD green and Loam.

Seriously though, I can remember drawing airplanes and playing with G.I Joes as early as I can remember. My mom actually has a picture of a C-130 I drew with people jumping out of it at age 7.

I can't see sponsoring a rodeo doing much good. That's like Dean targeting liberals that he already has in his pocket. Put up a big billboard just outside your local community college parking lot that says "Face it. You should have taken your SATs in High School." Have a picture of a model solider shrugging his shoulders. But make sure he’s not in BDUs though. Make him the token black guy surrounded by hot women soldiers at a Baseball game. Make it to where the other people are cheering for their team but he’s looking at the camera with the gesture.