pledge of allegiance=unconstitutional
09-15-2005, 04:14 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by dr3d1zzl3
I CANT TAKE IT!!
Last edited by Salty; 09-15-2005 at 04:27 PM.
09-15-2005, 04:53 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by lojasmo
It was certainly unconstitutional for congress to insert "under god" into the pledge.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
If Congress passes a law, it IS constitutional unless challenged in the courts and found unconstitutional.
09-15-2005, 04:59 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by svxr8dr
I still don't understand how "Under God" endorses a religion
You know, if the law dictated that I kneel down in a particular direction, I imagine I could accomodate it. I wouldn't like it, but I'd do it. I don't think that saying under god is important enough to get upset about.
If something isn't important enough for me to feel the need to take some form of action, I don't think I'm going to waste a whole lot of time griping about it.
On the other hand, I guess this whole issue is a refreshing reminder of how great it is to be an American, though. It tells me that we still have the right to challenge laws.
09-15-2005, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gpatmac
I still don't see how this is newsworthy or even fodder for discussion given the current political climate....It tells me that we still have the right to challenge laws.
Is the POA's "under God" really that important?
Especially now?
If you don't like saying "under God", then don't ****ing say it.
09-16-2005, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Oaf
DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!
Is the POA's "under God" really that important?
Especially now?
If you don't like saying "under God", then don't ****ing say it.
Is the POA's "under God" really that important?
Especially now?
If you don't like saying "under God", then don't ****ing say it.
Evidently, the ninth circuit (the members of which know much more about constitutional law than you and I) feels that this is wrong.
09-16-2005, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by lojasmo
Evidently, the ninth circuit (the members of which know much more about constitutional law than you and I) feels that this is wrong.
09-16-2005, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by lojasmo
I don't. There are, however, millions of schoolchildren being required to say it every day.
Evidently, the ninth circuit (the members of which know much more about constitutional law than you and I) feels that this is wrong.
Evidently, the ninth circuit (the members of which know much more about constitutional law than you and I) feels that this is wrong.
09-17-2005, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Oaf
Sorry, Charlie, there's not one student in any public school that is forced to say the POA.
Aside from that, you are frankly wrong.
http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/su...2-1624.ZS.html
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20040826.html
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...gmiret_pledge/
I could go on, but I think three state laws are enough....don't you?
09-17-2005, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by lojasmo
I had to tell my son he didn't have to say the pledge. He was forced to because he was expected to. The teacher says "class please stand and recite the pledge of allegiance" School is an acculturization program, and students are told to "obey the teacher"
Aside from that, you are frankly wrong.
http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/su...2-1624.ZS.html
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20040826.html
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...gmiret_pledge/
I could go on, but I think three state laws are enough....don't you?
Aside from that, you are frankly wrong.
http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/su...2-1624.ZS.html
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20040826.html
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...gmiret_pledge/
I could go on, but I think three state laws are enough....don't you?
So you tell your son to stand and keep quiet. There is no law forcing your child to say the POA.
Maybe you should re-read the thre articles that you've linked.
09-17-2005, 08:18 AM
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If you don't like it you should stand in the hallway while people who give a damn about what the country was founded on show there allegiance. Seriously if I saw the guy that took this to court I'd be tempted to knock him the **** out.
09-17-2005, 09:06 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by lojasmo
I had to tell my son he didn't have to say the pledge. He was forced to because he was expected to. The teacher says "class please stand and recite the pledge of allegiance" School is an acculturization program, and students are told to "obey the teacher"
Aside from that, you are frankly wrong.
http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/su...2-1624.ZS.html
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20040826.html
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...gmiret_pledge/
I could go on, but I think three state laws are enough....don't you?
Aside from that, you are frankly wrong.
http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/su...2-1624.ZS.html
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20040826.html
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...gmiret_pledge/
I could go on, but I think three state laws are enough....don't you?
I'm just curious as to why this is something that gives you so much heartburn.
I sincerely don't mean this as provacative nor as a barb, but is it a case where you'd rather not live here?
09-17-2005, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Oaf
I'm curious as to why you don't want your son to say it?
So you tell your son to stand and keep quiet. There is no law forcing your child to say the POA.
Maybe you should re-read the thre articles that you've linked.
So you tell your son to stand and keep quiet. There is no law forcing your child to say the POA.
Maybe you should re-read the thre articles that you've linked.
Originally Posted by first link
Petitioner school district requires each elementary school class to recite daily the Pledge of Allegiance.
Originally Posted by oaf
I'm curious as to why you don't want your son to say it?
Originally Posted by gpatmac
I didn't read those, but I know what the Right to Free Speech means. No one can make you say or not say anything you don't want....man, woman, or child.
Originally Posted by GPM
I'm just curious as to why this is something that gives you so much heartburn.
Originally Posted by GPM
I sincerely don't mean this as provacative nor as a barb, but is it a case where you'd rather not live here?
Originally Posted by Oaf
Sorry, Charlie, there's not one student in any public school that is forced to say the POA.
Last edited by lojasmo; 09-17-2005 at 10:06 AM.
09-17-2005, 05:19 PM
#30
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I just don't understand the problem. The only way you could be remotely offended by the pledge is if you were atheist. And I don't mean those that think they're atheist. I'm talking about those that are 110% certain there is no god even when their life is in jeopardy. Regardless, there shouldn't be any problem in skipping that phrase. At least do it for the sake of not offending the entire majority that is religious or agnostic. Is that really too much to ask?! Is that one second phrase really eating a hole in your side that much? It's plain stupid.
It seems like more of a problem with over controlling adults than anything. If my kids grows up to be a bible salesman then i'll support it 100% of the way. Likewise, if they're a homosexual atheist then i'll love them equally. Why do you insist on being their shadow on this issue?
Think about it. When was the last time you've been in a room where the pledge of allegiance was sung? The last time I recited it was at a hunting club assembly and that was the first time since middle school. Likewise, when you were in elementary school did you really give a damn about the pledge or realize it would be such an issue as an adult? Obviously not. Because one thing is for certain and that's the fact you're not religious and it did nothing to change who you are today, did it? Because if it did then this thread wouldn't exist and everyone would believe in god that had to sit through that grueling *sigh* 15 second pledge every morning. So where's the problem, exactly?
It seems like more of a problem with over controlling adults than anything. If my kids grows up to be a bible salesman then i'll support it 100% of the way. Likewise, if they're a homosexual atheist then i'll love them equally. Why do you insist on being their shadow on this issue?
Think about it. When was the last time you've been in a room where the pledge of allegiance was sung? The last time I recited it was at a hunting club assembly and that was the first time since middle school. Likewise, when you were in elementary school did you really give a damn about the pledge or realize it would be such an issue as an adult? Obviously not. Because one thing is for certain and that's the fact you're not religious and it did nothing to change who you are today, did it? Because if it did then this thread wouldn't exist and everyone would believe in god that had to sit through that grueling *sigh* 15 second pledge every morning. So where's the problem, exactly?
Last edited by Salty; 09-17-2005 at 05:43 PM.