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Nader Was Right: Liberals going nowhere w/Obama

Old 08-10-2009, 05:05 PM
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Nader Was Right: Liberals going nowhere w/Obama

Nader Was Right: Liberals Are Going Nowhere With Obama

Posted on Aug 10, 2009

By Chris Hedges

The American empire has not altered under Barack Obama. It kills as brutally and indiscriminately in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan as it did under George W. Bush. It steals from the U.S. treasury to enrich the corporate elite as rapaciously. It will not give us universal health care, abolish the Bush secrecy laws, end torture or “extraordinary rendition,” restore habeas corpus or halt the warrantless wiretapping and monitoring of citizens. It will not push through significant environmental reform, regulate Wall Street or end our relationship with private contractors that provide mercenary armies to fight our imperial wars and produce useless and costly weapons systems.

The sad reality is that all the well-meaning groups and individuals who challenge our permanent war economy and the doctrine of pre-emptive war, who care about sustainable energy, fight for civil liberties and want corporate malfeasance to end, were once again suckered by the Democratic Party. They were had. It is not a new story. The Democrats have been doing this to us since Bill Clinton. It is the same old merry-go-round, only with Obama branding. And if we have not learned by now that the system is broken, that as citizens we do not matter to our political elite, that we live in a corporate state where our welfare and our interests are irrelevant, we are in serious trouble. Our last hope is to step outside of the two-party system and build movements that defy the Democrats and the Republicans. If we fail to do this, we will continue to undergo a corporate coup d’etat in slow motion that will end in feudalism.

We owe Ralph Nader, Cynthia McKinney and the Green Party an apology. They were right. If a few million of us had had the temerity to stand behind our ideals rather than our illusions and the empty slogans peddled by the Obama campaign, we would have a platform. We forgot that social reform never comes from accommodating the power structure but from frightening it. The Liberty Party, which fought slavery, the suffragists who battled for women’s rights, the labor movement, and the civil rights movement knew that the question was not how do we get good people to rule—those attracted to power tend to be venal mediocrities—but how do we limit the damage the powerful do to us. These mass movements were the engines for social reform, the correctives to our democracy and the true protectors of the rights of citizens. We have surrendered this power. It is vital to reclaim it. Where is the foreclosure movement? Where is the robust universal health care or anti-war movement? Where is the militant movement for sustainable energy?

“Something is broken,” Nader said when I reached him at his family home in Connecticut. “We are not at the Bangladesh level in terms of passivity, but we are getting there. No one sees anything changing. There is no new political party to give people a choice. The progressive forces have no hammer. When they abandoned our campaign, they told the Democrats we have nowhere to go and will take whatever you give us. The Democrats are under no heat in the electoral arena from the left.

“There comes a point when the public imbibes the ultimatum of the plutocracy,” Nader said when asked about public apathy. “They have bought into the belief that if it protests, it will be brutalized by the police. If they have Muslim names, they will be subjected to Patriot Act treatment. This has scared the hell out of the underclass. They will be called terrorists.

“This is the third television generation,” Nader said. “They have grown up watching screens. They have not gone to rallies. Those are history now. They hear their parents and grandparents talk about marches and rallies. They have little toys and gizmos that they hold in their hands. They have no idea of any public protest or activity. It is a tapestry of passivity.

“They have been broken,” Nader said of the working class. “How many times have their employers threatened them with going abroad? How many times have they threatened the workers with outsourcing? The polls on job insecurity are record-high by those who have employment. And the liberal intelligentsia have failed them. They [the intellectuals] have bought into carping and making lecture fees as the senior fellow at the institute of so-and-so. Look at the top 50 intelligentsia—not one of them supported our campaign, not one of them has urged for street action and marches.”
Read the rest here.
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:33 PM
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Everyone is willing to point out that there is an infection. Very few are promoting a cure.
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Superglue WRX View Post
Everyone is willing to point out that there is an infection. Very few are promoting a cure.
You should read the rest of the article. They make suggestions in the very next paragraph after the last one I posted.

Our task is to build movements that can act as a counterweight to the corporate rape of America. We must opt out of the mainstream. We must articulate and stand behind a viable and uncompromising socialism, one that is firmly and unequivocally on the side of working men and women. We must give up the self-delusion that we can influence the power elite from the inside. We must become as militant as those who are seeking our enslavement. If we remain passive as we undergo the largest transference of wealth upward in American history, our open society will die. The working class is being plunged into desperation that will soon rival the misery endured by the working class in China and India. And the Democratic Party, including Obama, is a willing accomplice.
Note: DO NOT ASSUME "socialism" here to mean "state socialism." This is a libertarian-socialist news source, so that's the context of their articles.
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Old 08-11-2009, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Superglue WRX View Post
Everyone is willing to point out that there is an infection. Very few are promoting a cure.
Cure:

1) Let the free market correct itself.
2) Back the government out of our market. This is OUR market, we the people run it, not the government.
3) Pay only taxes we receive receipts for. (military, etc.)
4) Get rid of the Federal Reserve.
5) Get rid of social security, medicaid, cash for clunkers, anything else the government is STEALING our money for.
6) Get rid of Obama, he wasn't born here.

Just some of the few, off the top of my head.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by iLoqin View Post
Cure:

1) Let the free market correct itself.
2) Back the government out of our market. This is OUR market, we the people run it, not the government.
3) Pay only taxes we receive receipts for. (military, etc.)
4) Get rid of the Federal Reserve.
5) Get rid of social security, medicaid, cash for clunkers, anything else the government is STEALING our money for.
6) Get rid of Obama, he wasn't born here.

Just some of the few, off the top of my head.
Oh god, you can't be serious.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by saqwarrior View Post
Oh god, you can't be serious.
not sure why its so hard for them to provide an official long form birth certificate.

McCain was able to without breaking a sweat when there was questions about him being a natural born citizen since he was born on a US base on the Panama Canal.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by saqwarrior View Post
Oh god, you can't be serious.
Am I serious? It McCain picked his crap up when they MADE him after he STARTED TO RUN. Yet Obama gets a free ****ing pass?

You do know he still has not provided it?

You do know that a commentator out there is offering 100K to ANYONE that was there for his live birth in Hawaii? NOT ONE person has claimed they were in the room.

You would remember if a president was born and you were in the room with it. There is no way that all the nurses + doctors would not have remembered.

The people are outraged, should have been MORE outraged when he NOMINATED HIMSELF without providing birth certificate, yet got his ****ing FREE PASS (Affirmative action BS) without having to provide his certificate from the start.

This shows you that the **** you listen too. The Main Stream Media has made people like YOU ignorant. If you actually believe Obama is born here (which I'm sure he can forge his certificate) then please run around and show it.

So far a lot of high power people and citizens are backing a 500k (#'s are still growing) signed and petition to see the proof of his birth.

If the constitution states you NEED to be a natural born citizen, and you want to see proof. Then there better be some. If you want to let him be president while breaking the constitution. I would try you for treason.

Obama cried out for transparency during his run, and it's been the far opposite of that since he has come into office.

The constitution was built for measures against corruption, yet you sit there and not ask for identification of birth? Even as it is WRITTEN IN THE CONSTITUTION? Obama-mania still has you.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:43 AM
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haha

"This shows you that the **** you listen too."
"Obama-mania still has you"

HAHAHAHA

You write that in a thread started by me that is negative towards Obama. Good job on the reading comprehension.

You don't even know my politics or what I "listen to." Go spew your impotent nerdrage at someone else.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:53 AM
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http://www.twincities.com/ci_12971203?nclick_check=1

"It's a fascinating phenomenon," said Jerrold Post, director of the political psychology program at George Washington University's Elliott School of International Affairs and author of the recent book "Political Paranoia."

"They are not searching for the truth. They are searching for anything that confirms their fixed idea, their malevolent idea. ... It doesn't soothe people to tell them it's not legitimate. That makes them angry."

THE TALE

Birthers charge that Obama hasn't proved that he was born a U.S. citizen, and therefore isn't eligible to be president under the constitutional requirement that the president be 35 years old, a resident of the country for at least 14 years and a natural-born citizen.

They also say that a birth certificate posted on the Internet by Obama during his campaign isn't the original, and it's a forgery anyway.

THE FACTS

First, the 2007 document isn't a forgery. Independent experts from such groups as FactCheck.org at the University of Pennsylvania have examined it and said it's real.

Second, it's true that the 2007 document issued by the state of Hawaii, called a Certification of Live Birth, isn't a copy of the original 1961 document. Obama could ask for that from Hawaii but hasn't, without explanation. The longer, original form would show more details, including the name of the doctor, according to copies of other 1961 birth certificates.

White House aides say only that Obama has produced his birth certificate. That's true. It is a birth certificate, issued by the state Health Department and acceptable to prove citizenship to the federal government for purposes of obtaining a passport.

It's also true that it isn't the original birth certificate.

Regardless, Hawaii state officials said again last week that they've examined the original and affirmed that it shows that Obama was born there.

Also, the two Honolulu newspapers report that they carried brief announcements of the birth of a boy to the Obamas in 1961. Said the Aug. 13 birth announcement in the Honolulu Advertiser: "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy, son, Aug. 4."

The Hawaii Health Department says it supplied the lists of births for those announcements. Announcements supplied by families were longer and more personal and normally included the child's name.
Obama has provided the required legal documents. Even if he provided all the documents people are up in arms over, they would claim that they are forgeries.

If you think for one second that the powers that be that run this country (corporations, lobbyists, banks, etc) would allow someone who they don't control into the office, then you're fooling yourself. Whether he's born here or not is ultimately irrelevant because he's a slave to his overlords just like every other president has ever been.

Last edited by saqwarrior; 08-11-2009 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by saqwarrior View Post
haha

"This shows you that the **** you listen too."
"Obama-mania still has you"

HAHAHAHA

You write that in a thread started by me that is negative towards Obama. Good job on the reading comprehension.

You don't even know my politics or what I "listen to." Go spew your impotent nerdrage at someone else.
Its people like you that has this country in a **** hole. You're just a classic example of the average ignorant, the government is never wrong and truthful to us, citizen.



A lot of what I post people just call me the same ol' "Conspiracy theorist" It's ok though, I know I'll be fighting for the constitution when the time comes, and you'll be a part of the National home land security calling on people to snitch on other citizens. Hitler at it's prime, Obama is calling for forces within the states because he knows that many people disagree with his bull crap, and he wants an army to suppress them within the states.

I'll fight corruption whether it just be me vs 100 people.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by iLoqin View Post
Its people like you that has this country in a **** hole. You're just a classic example of the average ignorant, the government is never wrong and truthful to us, citizen.



A lot of what I post people just call me the same ol' "Conspiracy theorist" It's ok though, I know I'll be fighting for the constitution when the time comes, and you'll be a part of the National home land security calling on people to snitch on other citizens. Hitler at it's prime, Obama is calling for forces within the states because he knows that many people disagree with his bull crap, and he wants an army to suppress them within the states.

I'll fight corruption whether it just be me vs 100 people.
All this proves is that you don't know anything about me, or my politics -- even though I've already pointed out the obvious to you.

You just keep digging your hole deeper, guy.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:09 PM
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Also:

The Obama campaign released a 2007 certified copy of his Certification of Live Birth (sometimes incorrectly called a "short form") that states Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, on August 4, 1961. A common complaint of those questioning Obama's eligibility is that he has not released a photocopy of his original birth certificate (in this instance incorrectly called a "long form"), having only issued an official certification of live birth (what Hawaii deems equivalent to one's "Birth Certificate" upon request).[2] Asked about this, Department of Health Spokeswoman Janice Okubo stated that Hawaii "does not have a short-form or long-form certificate."[3] Moreover, the director of her Department has confirmed that the state holds Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."[4][5]
2: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...h_certificate/
3: http://www.starbulletin.com/columnis...okua_line.html
4: http://blogs.starbulletin.com/inpolitics/certified/
5: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...morside01.html

I'm sure that if someone could take you back in time to watch the birth yourself, you'd come up with some reason to discredit it, though.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by saqwarrior View Post
Also:



2: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...h_certificate/
3: http://www.starbulletin.com/columnis...okua_line.html
4: http://blogs.starbulletin.com/inpolitics/certified/
5: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...morside01.html

I'm sure that if someone could take you back in time to watch the birth yourself, you'd come up with some reason to discredit it, though.
You'd have to understand that when Obama was born, and when Hawaii just became a state. They were taking people who were born outside the country into the Hawaii bringing their birth certificates from other countries and making them citizens in hawaii. This is 100% factual, just find it for yourself. I still believe Obama was included in this bunch, and therefore although he might be a citizen, he surely is not a natural born one.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by iLoqin View Post
You'd have to understand that when Obama was born, and when Hawaii just became a state. They were taking people who were born outside the country into the Hawaii bringing their birth certificates from other countries and making them citizens in hawaii. This is 100% factual, just find it for yourself. I still believe Obama was included in this bunch, and therefore although he might be a citizen, he surely is not a natural born one.
This is a more reasonable response. Obama was born in 1961. Hawaii became a state in 1959. I can see how the possibility of what you say exists, I just don't agree with it.

Have you figured out yet that you don't actually know anything about my politics, and how you were just knee-jerk reacting to me because I disagreed with you? It seems silly that you claimed I was stricken with "Obama-mania" when I started a thread that's critical of him, don't you think?
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by iLoqin View Post
You'd have to understand that when Obama was born, and when Hawaii just became a state. They were taking people who were born outside the country into the Hawaii bringing their birth certificates from other countries and making them citizens in hawaii. This is 100% factual, just find it for yourself. I still believe Obama was included in this bunch, and therefore although he might be a citizen, he surely is not a natural born one.
If he was born somewhere else, why would they bother making an announcement in the newspaper about his birth?

What rational reason do you have to believe he was born anywhere else? Doubt does not equal confirmation.
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