Marines in trouble
06-02-2006, 12:06 PM
#2
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Every single fatality, military and civilian, that has occurred as a result of the illegal war is a war crime that can be tied to the feet of George W. Bush, the Decider-in-Chief.
Principle VI: "The crimes hereinafter set out are punishable as crimes under international law:
(b) War crimes: murder, ill-treatment of civilian population of or in occupied territory; murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages
Two Afghan prisoners who died in American custody in Afghanistan in December 2002 were chained to the ceiling, kicked and beaten by American soldiers in sustained assaults that caused their deaths, according to Army criminal investigative reports.
At least 26 prisoners have died in American custody in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2002 in what Army and Navy investigators have concluded or suspect were acts of criminal homicide, according to military officials
In Fallujah, 40% of the buildings were completely destroyed, 20% had major damage, and 40% had significant damage. That is 100% of the buildings in that city.
( c) Crimes against humanity: Murder, extermination and other inhuman acts done against any civilian population when such acts are done in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime."
"We were tied up and beaten despite being unarmed and having only our medical instruments," Asma Khamis al-Muhannadi, a doctor who was present during the U.S. and Iraqi National Guard raid on Fallujah General Hospital told reporters later. She said troops dragged patients from their
beds and pushed them against the wall. "I was with a woman in labour, the umbilical cord had not yet been cut," she said. "At that time, a U.S. soldier shouted at one of the (Iraqi) national guards to arrest me and tie my hands while I was helping the mother to deliver."
Abu Hammad said he saw people attempt to swim across the Euphrates to escape the siege. "The Americans shot them with rifles from the shore," he said. "Even if some of them were holding white flag or white clothes over their heads to show they are not fighters, they were all shot."
Hammad said he had seen elderly women carrying white flags shot by U.S. soldiers. "Even the wounded people were killed. The Americans made announcements for people to come to one mosque if they wanted to leave Fallujah, and even the people who went there carrying white flags were killed."
The Geneva Conventions
Protocol I, Article 75:
"(1)persons who are in the power of a Party to the conflict shall be treated humanely in all circumstances(2) The following acts are and shall remain prohibited whether committed by civilian or by military agents: (a) violence to the life, health, or physical or mental well-being of persons(b) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment, enforced prostitution and any form of indecent assault and threats to commit any of the foregoing acts."
The investigation of the 800th Military Police Brigade by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba found that "intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel" included the following:
Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet
Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees
Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing
Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time
Forcing naked male detainees to wear women's underwear
Forcing groups of male detainees to ********** themselves while being videotaped
Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them
Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and ***** to simulate electric torture
Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee's neck and having a female soldier pose for a picture
A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee
Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee
Protocol I, Art. 70:
"The Parties to the conflict shall allow and facilitate rapid and unimpeded passage of all relief consignments, equipment and personnel even if such assistance is destined for the civilian population of the adverse Party."
Convoys sent by the Iraqi Red Crescent to aid the remaining population (in Fallujah) have been turned back.
Marked ambulances were repeatedly shot at by U.S. troops during the April, 2004 siege of Fallujah and troops prevented the distribution of medical supplies.
In Saqlawiyah, Dr Abdulla Aziz told IPS that occupation forces had blocked any medical supplies from entering or leaving the city. "They won't let any of our ambulances go to help Fallujah," he said. "We are out of supplies and they won't let anyone bring us more."
Protocol I, Art. 35:
" In any armed conflict, the right of the Parties to choose methods or means of warfare is not unlimited. It is prohibited to employ methods or means of warfare which are intended, or may be expected, to cause widespread, long-term and severe damage to the environment."
On April 1, 2003 the residential al-Hilla outskirts of Babylon were hit with an undetermined number of BLU-97 A/B cluster bombs. Each bomb releases 202 bomblets which scatter over an area the size of two football fields, with a dud rate of 5%-7%. Immediate reports stated that at least 33 civilians died and around 300 were injured in the attack. Amnesty International condemned the attack, saying that "the use of cluster bombs in an attack on a civilian area of al-Hilla constitutes an indiscriminate attack and a grave violation of international humanitarian law."
On March 22, 2003, reporters from CNN and the Sydney Morning Herald - Melbourne Age embedded with the 1st Battalion 7th Marines at Safwan Hill near Basra reported air strikes dropping napalm.
And don't forget all the Depleted Uranium munitions.
Convention III, Art. 5:
"Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy (are prisoners of war under this Convention), such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention
until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal."
President Bush issued an order on February 7, 2002, specifying that the U.S. would not apply the Third Convention to members of Al Qaeda. That order set forth policies that led to the willful killing, torture, or inhuman treatment, and great suffering or serious injury to body or health, of prisoners in U.S. custody in Afghanistan , Iraq , and Guantanamo Bay .
Need more documentation? Try the 1996 War Crimes Act; the U.S. Constitution's Supremacy Clause, Article VI (par. 2); or the above-mentioned treaties such as the Geneva Conventions, the Nuremberg Principles, U.N. General Assembly resolutions, and others.
Just for starters...
Principle VI: "The crimes hereinafter set out are punishable as crimes under international law:
(b) War crimes: murder, ill-treatment of civilian population of or in occupied territory; murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages
Two Afghan prisoners who died in American custody in Afghanistan in December 2002 were chained to the ceiling, kicked and beaten by American soldiers in sustained assaults that caused their deaths, according to Army criminal investigative reports.
At least 26 prisoners have died in American custody in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2002 in what Army and Navy investigators have concluded or suspect were acts of criminal homicide, according to military officials
In Fallujah, 40% of the buildings were completely destroyed, 20% had major damage, and 40% had significant damage. That is 100% of the buildings in that city.
( c) Crimes against humanity: Murder, extermination and other inhuman acts done against any civilian population when such acts are done in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime."
"We were tied up and beaten despite being unarmed and having only our medical instruments," Asma Khamis al-Muhannadi, a doctor who was present during the U.S. and Iraqi National Guard raid on Fallujah General Hospital told reporters later. She said troops dragged patients from their
beds and pushed them against the wall. "I was with a woman in labour, the umbilical cord had not yet been cut," she said. "At that time, a U.S. soldier shouted at one of the (Iraqi) national guards to arrest me and tie my hands while I was helping the mother to deliver."
Abu Hammad said he saw people attempt to swim across the Euphrates to escape the siege. "The Americans shot them with rifles from the shore," he said. "Even if some of them were holding white flag or white clothes over their heads to show they are not fighters, they were all shot."
Hammad said he had seen elderly women carrying white flags shot by U.S. soldiers. "Even the wounded people were killed. The Americans made announcements for people to come to one mosque if they wanted to leave Fallujah, and even the people who went there carrying white flags were killed."
The Geneva Conventions
Protocol I, Article 75:
"(1)persons who are in the power of a Party to the conflict shall be treated humanely in all circumstances(2) The following acts are and shall remain prohibited whether committed by civilian or by military agents: (a) violence to the life, health, or physical or mental well-being of persons(b) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment, enforced prostitution and any form of indecent assault and threats to commit any of the foregoing acts."
The investigation of the 800th Military Police Brigade by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba found that "intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel" included the following:
Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet
Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees
Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing
Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time
Forcing naked male detainees to wear women's underwear
Forcing groups of male detainees to ********** themselves while being videotaped
Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them
Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and ***** to simulate electric torture
Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee's neck and having a female soldier pose for a picture
A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee
Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee
Protocol I, Art. 70:
"The Parties to the conflict shall allow and facilitate rapid and unimpeded passage of all relief consignments, equipment and personnel even if such assistance is destined for the civilian population of the adverse Party."
Convoys sent by the Iraqi Red Crescent to aid the remaining population (in Fallujah) have been turned back.
Marked ambulances were repeatedly shot at by U.S. troops during the April, 2004 siege of Fallujah and troops prevented the distribution of medical supplies.
In Saqlawiyah, Dr Abdulla Aziz told IPS that occupation forces had blocked any medical supplies from entering or leaving the city. "They won't let any of our ambulances go to help Fallujah," he said. "We are out of supplies and they won't let anyone bring us more."
Protocol I, Art. 35:
" In any armed conflict, the right of the Parties to choose methods or means of warfare is not unlimited. It is prohibited to employ methods or means of warfare which are intended, or may be expected, to cause widespread, long-term and severe damage to the environment."
On April 1, 2003 the residential al-Hilla outskirts of Babylon were hit with an undetermined number of BLU-97 A/B cluster bombs. Each bomb releases 202 bomblets which scatter over an area the size of two football fields, with a dud rate of 5%-7%. Immediate reports stated that at least 33 civilians died and around 300 were injured in the attack. Amnesty International condemned the attack, saying that "the use of cluster bombs in an attack on a civilian area of al-Hilla constitutes an indiscriminate attack and a grave violation of international humanitarian law."
On March 22, 2003, reporters from CNN and the Sydney Morning Herald - Melbourne Age embedded with the 1st Battalion 7th Marines at Safwan Hill near Basra reported air strikes dropping napalm.
And don't forget all the Depleted Uranium munitions.
Convention III, Art. 5:
"Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy (are prisoners of war under this Convention), such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention
until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal."
President Bush issued an order on February 7, 2002, specifying that the U.S. would not apply the Third Convention to members of Al Qaeda. That order set forth policies that led to the willful killing, torture, or inhuman treatment, and great suffering or serious injury to body or health, of prisoners in U.S. custody in Afghanistan , Iraq , and Guantanamo Bay .
Need more documentation? Try the 1996 War Crimes Act; the U.S. Constitution's Supremacy Clause, Article VI (par. 2); or the above-mentioned treaties such as the Geneva Conventions, the Nuremberg Principles, U.N. General Assembly resolutions, and others.
Just for starters...
06-02-2006, 02:11 PM
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Trying U.S. servicemen and woman in an international court of law is a bad me. Let the UCMJ work and if these individuals broke the law..let them be punished accordingly. But trying them publicly, at the Hague or thru the U.N is unacceptable.
06-02-2006, 02:16 PM
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looks like they were cleared of all charges
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060602/...oops_cleared_2
unless of course that is refering to a completly seperate incident
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060602/...oops_cleared_2
unless of course that is refering to a completly seperate incident
06-02-2006, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by svxr8dr
Trying U.S. servicemen and woman in an international court of law is a bad me. Let the UCMJ work and if these individuals broke the law..let them be punished accordingly. But trying them publicly, at the Hague or thru the U.N is unacceptable.
Why? How is it unacceptable to have an outside body involved?
06-02-2006, 02:36 PM
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the outside body has no jurisdiction. they are under the command of the us military and the ucmj. if they broke the rules, that's how they should be punished. not by a civilian court. imo
06-02-2006, 02:44 PM
#7
Originally Posted by 04whitewrx
the outside body has no jurisdiction. they are under the command of the us military and the ucmj. if they broke the rules, that's how they should be punished. not by a civilian court. imo
Most of the "international community" has nothing to do with the situation in Iraq and wants nothing to do with the situation in Iraq. Why should they have any jurisdiction over what goes on there? That being said, If these marines are found to have commited these alleged crimes after a thourough investigation, the should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Bottom line is that nobody here was there, or has even seen combat.
Does anyone remember LT. Pantano?
Has it occored to anyone that this may even be a setup? Afterall, we are dealing with people who have no quarrell with blowing up a preschool in the name of allah.
06-02-2006, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by VIBEELEVEN
Has it occored to anyone that this may even be a setup? Afterall, we are dealing with people who have no quarrell with blowing up a preschool in the name of allah.
Entirely possible...
06-02-2006, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MVWRX
Well, if jurisdiction is the issue, then anyone commiting crimes in Iraq should be tried in Iraqi courts.
06-02-2006, 03:26 PM
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Support does not mean blind unwaivering allegiance to a very very small percentage of our soldiers who may be commiting atrocious war crimes. I do support our troops...the ones who are doing their job correctly and without killing innocents on purpose.
Flip it around. If a foreign military were to come to the US and kill a crap load of civilians, they would be tried in US courts.
Flip it around. If a foreign military were to come to the US and kill a crap load of civilians, they would be tried in US courts.
06-02-2006, 03:37 PM
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Turn it around again...take a vacation to Nigeria, get pulled over, not bribe the law enforcement official..he takes offense and you are in a Nigerian jail. The State Dept. says to F off...and take your chances in a Nigerian court.....what's the big deal...what's the worst that could happen?
Also remember that all the Marines in question have now been cleared.
Your foreign military scenario is utter crap and you know it.
Why empower an international court made up of strangers from foreign lands , who have no concept of protections afforded U.S. citizens by their Constitution to reach out and try Americans for any number of charges.
The charges, moreover, don’t have to have any basis in fact. The servicemen and servicewomen in your town who put on that uniform to defend their country, on the assumption that the country will protect them, may find instead that their country is helpless to do anything about it.
I guess I will stick with the side that wants to Constitutional protection to people who sign up and defend the very people said document was created for.
Also remember that all the Marines in question have now been cleared.
Your foreign military scenario is utter crap and you know it.
Why empower an international court made up of strangers from foreign lands , who have no concept of protections afforded U.S. citizens by their Constitution to reach out and try Americans for any number of charges.
The charges, moreover, don’t have to have any basis in fact. The servicemen and servicewomen in your town who put on that uniform to defend their country, on the assumption that the country will protect them, may find instead that their country is helpless to do anything about it.
I guess I will stick with the side that wants to Constitutional protection to people who sign up and defend the very people said document was created for.
Last edited by svxr8dr; 06-02-2006 at 03:43 PM.
06-02-2006, 03:41 PM
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My point is not utter crap, if someone commits crimes in America against Americans, they are tried in American courts. Why would it be different in Iraq?
Since the soldiers have been cleared it is a mute point...
And the charges are NOT totally unfounded. Someone killed a crap load of women and children, maybe American soldiers maybe not. But someone sure did.
Since the soldiers have been cleared it is a mute point...
And the charges are NOT totally unfounded. Someone killed a crap load of women and children, maybe American soldiers maybe not. But someone sure did.
06-02-2006, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by svxr8dr
Turn it around again...take a vacation to Nigeria, get pulled over, not bribe the law enforcement official..he takes offense and you are in a Nigerian jail. The State Dept. says to F off...and take your chances in a Nigerian court.....what's the big deal...what's the worst that could happen?
What the hell are you talking about? Vacation to Nigeria? I want some of what you're smoking...