Marine Shoots and Kills Wounded Iraqi Prisoner
11-15-2004, 10:03 PM
#1
VIP Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wherever Sucks the Most
Posts: 8,675
Car Info: 2003 WRX, 2008 Camry
Marine Shoots and Kills Wounded Iraqi Prisoner
Marine's probably been up for 2 or 3 days before getting shot in the face, has faced numerous obstacles and watched his buddies die or become wounded.
The Marine's only mistake was not looking for the camera first as far as I'm concerned.
What do you think? Is it negligence on the Marine's part, his USMC chain of command -or- a result of battle stress and sleep deprivation?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._shooting_dc_2
I wonder how much play his wound to the face and RTD will receive?
The Marine's only mistake was not looking for the camera first as far as I'm concerned.
What do you think? Is it negligence on the Marine's part, his USMC chain of command -or- a result of battle stress and sleep deprivation?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._shooting_dc_2
LONDON (Reuters) - A television pool report by U.S. network NBC said on Monday that a U.S. Marine had shot dead an unarmed and wounded Iraqi prisoner in a mosque in Falluja.
The Iraqi was one of five wounded prisoners left in the mosque after Marines had fought their way in on Friday and Saturday. There was no immediate comment from the Pentagon (news - web sites) on the report.
U.S. forces launched an offensive one week ago on Falluja, and have gained overall control of the formerly rebel-held city, although scattered resistance remains.
The pool report by NBC correspondent Kevin Sites said the mosque had been used by insurgents to attack U.S. forces, who stormed it and an adjacent building, killing 10 militants and wounding the five.
Sites said the wounded had been left in the mosque for others to pick up and move to the rear for treatment. No reason was given why that had not happened.
A second group of Marines entered the mosque on Saturday after reports it had been reoccupied. Footage from the embedded television crew showed the five still in the mosque, although several appeared to be already close to death, Sites said.
He said one Marine noticed one of the prisoners was still breathing.
A Marine can be heard saying on the pool footage provided to Reuters Television: "He's ****ing faking he's dead. He faking he's ****ing dead."
"The Marine then raises his rifle and fires into the man's head. The pictures are too graphic for us to broadcast," Sites said. No images of the shooting were shown in the footage provided to Reuters.
The Iraqi was one of five wounded prisoners left in the mosque after Marines had fought their way in on Friday and Saturday. There was no immediate comment from the Pentagon (news - web sites) on the report.
U.S. forces launched an offensive one week ago on Falluja, and have gained overall control of the formerly rebel-held city, although scattered resistance remains.
The pool report by NBC correspondent Kevin Sites said the mosque had been used by insurgents to attack U.S. forces, who stormed it and an adjacent building, killing 10 militants and wounding the five.
Sites said the wounded had been left in the mosque for others to pick up and move to the rear for treatment. No reason was given why that had not happened.
A second group of Marines entered the mosque on Saturday after reports it had been reoccupied. Footage from the embedded television crew showed the five still in the mosque, although several appeared to be already close to death, Sites said.
He said one Marine noticed one of the prisoners was still breathing.
A Marine can be heard saying on the pool footage provided to Reuters Television: "He's ****ing faking he's dead. He faking he's ****ing dead."
"The Marine then raises his rifle and fires into the man's head. The pictures are too graphic for us to broadcast," Sites said. No images of the shooting were shown in the footage provided to Reuters.
11-15-2004, 10:14 PM
#2
VIP Member
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alaska
Posts: 6,155
Car Info: R.I.P 03 aspen white wrx
**** um i see it justified after they had booby trapped the other dead insurgent and that marine had taken a shot in the face a day prior...
tensions are high if you witness a hostile act you return fire... for mine and my units safety i would have done the same
edgar,
not to mention they had cleared that mosk the day befor and had to re enter it and clear it the next day
tensions are high if you witness a hostile act you return fire... for mine and my units safety i would have done the same
edgar,
not to mention they had cleared that mosk the day befor and had to re enter it and clear it the next day
Last edited by zumnwrx; 11-15-2004 at 10:16 PM.
11-15-2004, 10:33 PM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Northern Bay Area: Larkspur
Posts: 1,004
Car Info: 02 Silver WRX sedan. Eibach springs, Blitz NUR cat back, Rota 17" Attacks, Cobb AccessPort/DP
I wasnt there I don't know
If it was me, and I was clearing a room, and my buddy started shouting that there was moving body in the room, I'd be on the ready. If I saw the person that was "moving" reaching for a weapon I'd shoot to stop him. I would not however just smoke him for just "moving". It doesn't make any sense. The wounded need to be interogated for information. So even though the "news" might lead you to believe that the Marine killed a bad guy for no reason, I have a hard time believing that.
11-16-2004, 01:05 AM
#4
Originally Posted by zumnwrx
**** um i see it justified after they had booby trapped the other dead insurgent and that marine had taken a shot in the face a day prior...
tensions are high if you witness a hostile act you return fire... for mine and my units safety i would have done the same
edgar,
not to mention they had cleared that mosk the day befor and had to re enter it and clear it the next day
tensions are high if you witness a hostile act you return fire... for mine and my units safety i would have done the same
edgar,
not to mention they had cleared that mosk the day befor and had to re enter it and clear it the next day
11-16-2004, 07:22 AM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,152
I was pretty pissed when I heard about this. But it seems there are mitigating circumstances. Still, it was a mistake to do this in front of a camera. For that I am sure this soldier will pay dearly.
Last edited by FUNKED1; 11-16-2004 at 07:24 AM.
11-16-2004, 08:23 AM
#6
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: "It will take time to restore chaos." GWB
Posts: 3,461
Car Info: 72 Vespa with curb feelers
Originally Posted by FUNKED1
I was pretty pissed when I heard about this. But it seems there are mitigating circumstances. Still, it was a mistake to do this in front of a camera. For that I am sure this soldier will pay dearly.
That stupid sob gave the tape to al jazeera. That's a capital offense IMO.
11-16-2004, 08:47 AM
#7
VIP Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Detroit, Where the weak are killed and eaten...
Posts: 2,064
Car Info: 02 Impreza WRX Sedan & 2008 GMC Sierra 4x4
If he was not armed then the soldier made a huge error in judgement and will be dealt with I am sure. If he was armed and posed a threat Fk'em!
This is the effect war has on someone especially after they had been involved in a battle for the last 24-48 hours. Sad because the soldier was probably a good marine and good guy in general, but there is no cause for shooting an unarmed, injured person execution style. If this had been caught on camera happening to an American POW we would be screaming and yelling for revenge.
The bad thing is that although we will not see any of this on American television becuase it will be deemed too graphic and ultimately hurt the war effort, it will be shown over and over again on arabic television stations and will only hurt our objective of winning the peace over there.
This is the effect war has on someone especially after they had been involved in a battle for the last 24-48 hours. Sad because the soldier was probably a good marine and good guy in general, but there is no cause for shooting an unarmed, injured person execution style. If this had been caught on camera happening to an American POW we would be screaming and yelling for revenge.
The bad thing is that although we will not see any of this on American television becuase it will be deemed too graphic and ultimately hurt the war effort, it will be shown over and over again on arabic television stations and will only hurt our objective of winning the peace over there.
11-16-2004, 08:48 AM
#8
VIP Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wherever Sucks the Most
Posts: 8,675
Car Info: 2003 WRX, 2008 Camry
[QUOTE=Chrisnonstop]If it was me, and I was clearing a room, and my buddy started shouting that there was moving body in the room, I'd be on the ready. If I saw the person that was "moving" reaching for a weapon I'd shoot to stop him. I would not however just smoke him for just "moving". It doesn't make any sense.
It does make sense when he saw his buddy get KIA'd in a nearby building by a booby-trapped body.
Although I'm inclined to agree it's not entirely necessary when clearing a room to gather intelligence. Your job is to clear the room of hostile individuals and then collected intelligence via the old swift knee to the groin and POW/PIR search.
I have trained with Marines in CQB/doctrine and even though most of their SOP's differ from the Army, they know how to effectively clear rooms. The hard part about this situation is that you have a tired, and in this case wounded Marine that's going to be on edge after walking through the fatal funnel (the area around the door). Add this combination with an somewhat surgical ROE and tons of city blocks to clear and the only factor left is time.
It does make sense when he saw his buddy get KIA'd in a nearby building by a booby-trapped body.
Originally Posted by Chrisnonstop
The wounded need to be interogated for information. So even though the "news" might lead you to believe that the Marine killed a bad guy for no reason, I have a hard time believing that.
I have trained with Marines in CQB/doctrine and even though most of their SOP's differ from the Army, they know how to effectively clear rooms. The hard part about this situation is that you have a tired, and in this case wounded Marine that's going to be on edge after walking through the fatal funnel (the area around the door). Add this combination with an somewhat surgical ROE and tons of city blocks to clear and the only factor left is time.
11-16-2004, 10:11 AM
#9
If there is something fishy, there will be a full investigation and trial. Remember, there are court marshalls going on for putting panties on someones head. There will never be a trial for the poor guys on the bridge.
Last edited by VIBEELEVEN; 11-16-2004 at 10:15 AM.
11-16-2004, 10:21 AM
#10
VIP Member
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 3,709
Car Info: CRZ EX-Navi/6MT & Vue Redline
Originally Posted by HellaDumb
Yep, he should have turned and fired on the camera man afterwards if you ask me.
That stupid sob gave the tape to al jazeera. That's a capital offense IMO.
That stupid sob gave the tape to al jazeera. That's a capital offense IMO.
This is one of those cases where I TOTALLY agree with you, Helladumb.
F' al jazeera. About the soldier, I think what he did was wrong, no doubt. And some action now needs to be taken, but it shouldn't be severe at all. This poor marine likely hasn't slept in days, everyone around him is trying to kill him, and he is most likely suffering the early stages of post traumatic stress syndrome (shell shock.) You can't really blame the soldier for what he did, so a 'punishment' would be out of line. What this soldier needs is psych. treatment to insure that his unfortunate mental state is not made permanent. All I'm saying is YOU go out, miss three nights of sleep, run a marathon, than enter a buildings where evreyone is trying to kill you and you seriously fear for your life, and we'll see how you treat those that had been shooting at you, armed or not, injured or not.-Chris
11-16-2004, 10:30 AM
#11
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UCIrvine
Posts: 3,312
Car Info: '05 Crystal Grey Metallic WRX Sport Wagon
Originally Posted by SilverScoober02
The bad thing is that although we will not see any of this on American television becuase it will be deemed too graphic and ultimately hurt the war effort, it will be shown over and over again on arabic television stations and will only hurt our objective of winning the peace over there.
It was on American TV last night. They blurred a lot of blood and cut off the tape right as the guy shoots, but I got a pretty good feel for what was going on compared to the written version. They come into a room, about 3-4 injured or dead iraqis are on the ground...one marine yells "This f***er is faking he's dead, he f***ing breathed," another yells "He's f***ing faking?!?! He moved!!" then black screen and M16 fire. The tape doesn't show the guy who got shot too well, so I couldn't tell if he was armed or if he was 'faking' or just really hurt...to hard to tell, not up to me to pass judgment...the Marines were also almost shot by a tank on their way in, so I'm sure they were in kill or be killed mode.
11-16-2004, 10:44 AM
#12
VIP Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wherever Sucks the Most
Posts: 8,675
Car Info: 2003 WRX, 2008 Camry
Originally Posted by VIBEELEVEN
If there is something fishy, there will be a full investigation and trial. Remember, there are court marshalls going on for putting panties on someones head. There will never be a trial for the poor guys on the bridge.
Funny thing is, if the camera crew hadn't been there, we'd all be talking about Colin Powell’s resignation, Rice taking his position or the fact some Muslim torched himself in front of the White house right now.
I honestly doubt one of those bastards would have hesitated to shoot a Marine if the tables had been turned. The man made a choice to be in the fight by staying inside that mosque and it killed him in the end.
It wouldn't be a big deal if someone sawed a Marine's head off on camera. You wouldn't hear **** out of the world opinion in that case. Instead of burning that Marine for his actions after being deprived of sleep, having witnessed his buddies KIA in a similar situation and being shot one day earlier in the ****ing face, they oughta make copies of that video and distribute it!
I'm sorry...
11-16-2004, 10:47 AM
#13
VIP Member
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 3,709
Car Info: CRZ EX-Navi/6MT & Vue Redline
Originally Posted by Salty
It's interesting that you mention this because I had a rant up my sleeve from earlier so here we go...
Funny thing is, if the camera crew hadn't been there, we'd all be talking about Colin Powell’s resignation, Rice taking his position or the fact some Muslim torched himself in front of the White house right now.
I honestly doubt one of those bastards would have hesitated to shoot a Marine if the tables had been turned. The man made a choice to be in the fight by staying inside that mosque and it killed him in the end.
It wouldn't be a big deal if someone sawed a Marine's head off on camera. You wouldn't hear **** out of the world opinion in that case. Instead of burning that Marine for his actions after being deprived of sleep, having witnessed his buddies KIA in a similar situation and being shot one day earlier in the ****ing face, they oughta make copies of that video and distribute it!
I'm sorry...
Funny thing is, if the camera crew hadn't been there, we'd all be talking about Colin Powell’s resignation, Rice taking his position or the fact some Muslim torched himself in front of the White house right now.
I honestly doubt one of those bastards would have hesitated to shoot a Marine if the tables had been turned. The man made a choice to be in the fight by staying inside that mosque and it killed him in the end.
It wouldn't be a big deal if someone sawed a Marine's head off on camera. You wouldn't hear **** out of the world opinion in that case. Instead of burning that Marine for his actions after being deprived of sleep, having witnessed his buddies KIA in a similar situation and being shot one day earlier in the ****ing face, they oughta make copies of that video and distribute it!
I'm sorry...
-Chris
11-16-2004, 11:08 AM
#14
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Participating in some Anarchy!
Posts: 15,494
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
This is war.
Mistakes will be made.
This tape was shown on American televison?
What network aired it?
I asked, 'cause I question why this made it to prime time but none of the beheading videos.
Mistakes will be made.
This tape was shown on American televison?
What network aired it?
I asked, 'cause I question why this made it to prime time but none of the beheading videos.
11-16-2004, 11:10 AM
#15
VIP Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wherever Sucks the Most
Posts: 8,675
Car Info: 2003 WRX, 2008 Camry
Originally Posted by Oaf
This is war.
I question why this made it to prime time but none of the beheading videos.
I question why this made it to prime time but none of the beheading videos.
