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Old 07-22-2004, 10:41 PM
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Legalized Murder

This story made me really mad. Not sure why I am posting it but maybe exposing barbarism will help make it stop.

When One Is Enough
By AMY RICHARDS as told to AMY BARRETT

Published: July 18, 2004

I grew up in a working-class family in Pennsylvania not knowing my father. I have never missed not having him. I firmly believe that, but for much of my life I felt that what I probably would have gained was economic security and with that societal security. Growing up with a single mother, I was always buying into the myth that I was going to be seduced in the back of a pickup truck and become pregnant when I was 16. I had friends when I was in school who were helping to rear nieces and nephews, because their siblings, who were not much older, were having babies. I had friends from all over the class spectrum: I saw the nieces and nephews on the one hand and country-club memberships and station wagons on the other. I felt I was in the middle. I had this fear: What would it take for me to just slip?

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Now I'm 34. My boyfriend, Peter, and I have been together three years. I'm old enough to presume that I wasn't going to have an easy time becoming pregnant. I was tired of being on the pill, because it made me moody. Before I went off it, Peter and I talked about what would happen if I became pregnant, and we both agreed that we would have the child.

I found out I was having triplets when I went to my obstetrician. The doctor had just finished telling me I was going to have a low-risk pregnancy. She turned on the sonogram machine. There was a long pause, then she said, ''Are you sure you didn't take fertility drugs?'' I said, ''I'm positive.'' Peter and I were very shocked when she said there were three. ''You know, this changes everything,'' she said. ''You'll have to see a specialist.''

My immediate response was, I cannot have triplets. I was not married; I lived in a five-story walk-up in the East Village; I worked freelance; and I would have to go on bed rest in March. I lecture at colleges, and my biggest months are March and April. I would have to give up my main income for the rest of the year. There was a part of me that was sure I could work around that. But it was a matter of, Do I want to?

I looked at Peter and asked the doctor: ''Is it possible to get rid of one of them? Or two of them?'' The obstetrician wasn't an expert in selective reduction, but she knew that with a shot of potassium chloride you could eliminate one or more.

Having felt physically fine up to this point, I got on the subway afterward, and all of a sudden, I felt ill. I didn't want to eat anything. What I was going through seemed like a very unnatural experience. On the subway, Peter asked, ''Shouldn't we consider having triplets?'' And I had this adverse reaction: ''This is why they say it's the woman's choice, because you think I could just carry triplets. That's easy for you to say, but I'd have to give up my life.'' Not only would I have to be on bed rest at 20 weeks, I wouldn't be able to fly after 15. I was already at eight weeks. When I found out about the triplets, I felt like: It's not the back of a pickup at 16, but now I'm going to have to move to Staten Island. I'll never leave my house because I'll have to care for these children. I'll have to start shopping only at Costco and buying big jars of mayonnaise. Even in my moments of thinking about having three, I don't think that deep down I was ever considering it.
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Old 07-22-2004, 10:44 PM
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continued
The specialist called me back at 10 p.m. I had just finished watching a Boston Pops concert at Symphony Hall. As everybody burst into applause, I watched my cellphone vibrating, grabbed it and ran into the lobby. He told me that he does a detailed sonogram before doing a selective reduction to see if one fetus appears to be struggling. The procedure involves a shot of potassium chloride to the heart of the fetus. There are a lot more complications when a woman carries multiples. And so, from the doctor's perspective, it's a matter of trying to save the woman this trauma. After I talked to the specialist, I told Peter, ''That's what I'm going to do.'' He replied, ''What we're going to do.'' He respected what I was going through, but at a certain point, he felt that this was a decision we were making. I agreed.

When we saw the specialist, we found out that I was carrying identical twins and a stand alone. My doctors thought the stand alone was three days older. There was something psychologically comforting about that, since I wanted to have just one. Before the procedure, I was focused on relaxing. But Peter was staring at the sonogram screen thinking: Oh, my gosh, there are three heartbeats. I can't believe we're about to make two disappear. The doctor came in, and then Peter was asked to leave. I said, ''Can Peter stay?'' The doctor said no. I know Peter was offended by that.

Two days after the procedure, smells no longer set me off and I no longer wanted to eat nothing but sour-apple gum. I went on to have a pretty seamless pregnancy. But I had a recurring feeling that this was going to come back and haunt me. Was I going to have a stillbirth or miscarry late in my pregnancy?

I had a boy, and everything is fine. But thinking about becoming pregnant again is terrifying. Am I going to have quintuplets? I would do the same thing if I had triplets again, but if I had twins, I would probably have twins. Then again, I don't know
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Old 07-22-2004, 11:39 PM
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People can be so ****ing selfish!!! My son was born when I was 17. IMHO there are two ways to go with a new baby....

1) Man up & take the responsibility, raise the child to your best abilities to ensure it has the best possible chance to succeed in every possible aspect of its life.

2) Run & hide, and enjoy the pathetic life you have that is centered around nothing more than what you are comfortable with at the time. Yes, she kept one of the kids, but there's a reason 3 were there in the first place. She'll never know, nor does she deserve to know, the amount of joy and pride that could've been experienced by raising all 3 kids.

I agree that abortion might be a viable option for situations like rape, but in a case like this it's absolutely pathetic and pisses me off! I know people that wish every night for a child, and they would make great parents. If you can't handle the responsibility or the "inconvenience" of raising a child, put it up for adoption to a set of parents that deserve it.

p.s. In case anyone's wondering about which road I took of the two. My son's 7 now, my daughter is 3, and I've been married to their mother for 6 years. I'm not saying it's easy but it CAN work out.
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Old 07-22-2004, 11:43 PM
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<Salute> to a real man!
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Old 07-23-2004, 06:31 AM
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<--Pro Choice
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Old 07-23-2004, 09:19 AM
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I am Pro-Choice as well. I believe that abortion is wrong, but you can't go f***ing with the rights we are guarenteed as American citizens. Taking away our right to choose is like taking away our right to speak freely. You can't do it without disrupting the ideals of a free society.

Another thing i don't understand is Pro-Life males. The women should be the only ones deciding this. If the expectant mother's boyfriend says that they are going to have the baby, it leaves the woman in a difficult position. Because she is the one who has to deal with the trauma, the pain, whatever, she should be the ONLY influencing factor in her decision.

My 2 cents.
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Old 07-23-2004, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by funkdrmr
People can be so ****ing selfish!!! My son was born when I was 17. IMHO there are two ways to go with a new baby....

1) Man up & take the responsibility, raise the child to your best abilities to ensure it has the best possible chance to succeed in every possible aspect of its life.

2) Run & hide, and enjoy the pathetic life you have that is centered around nothing more than what you are comfortable with at the time. Yes, she kept one of the kids, but there's a reason 3 were there in the first place. She'll never know, nor does she deserve to know, the amount of joy and pride that could've been experienced by raising all 3 kids.

I agree that abortion might be a viable option for situations like rape, but in a case like this it's absolutely pathetic and pisses me off! I know people that wish every night for a child, and they would make great parents. If you can't handle the responsibility or the "inconvenience" of raising a child, put it up for adoption to a set of parents that deserve it.

p.s. In case anyone's wondering about which road I took of the two. My son's 7 now, my daughter is 3, and I've been married to their mother for 6 years. I'm not saying it's easy but it CAN work out.
Well said, funkdrmr...
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Old 07-23-2004, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by PyroManiac
I am Pro-Choice as well. I believe that abortion is wrong, but you can't go f***ing with the rights we are guarenteed as American citizens. Taking away our right to choose is like taking away our right to speak freely. You can't do it without disrupting the ideals of a free society.
Those are good points, I mean if I was in a situation I really don't know what I would do if my wife or g/f was going to die if she has the baby, I think I would like to have the choice instead of laws telling me that my wife or g/f has to die.

Originally Posted by PyroManiac
Another thing i don't understand is Pro-Life males. The women should be the only ones deciding this. If the expectant mother's boyfriend says that they are going to have the baby, it leaves the woman in a difficult position. Because she is the one who has to deal with the trauma, the pain, whatever, she should be the ONLY influencing factor in her decision.

I disagree with that......the man has as much say in the relationship because he is part of the situation, so he has say in it to, and should be an influencing factor.
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Old 07-23-2004, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by PyroManiac
Another thing i don't understand is Pro-Life males. The women should be the only ones deciding this. If the expectant mother's boyfriend says that they are going to have the baby, it leaves the woman in a difficult position. Because she is the one who has to deal with the trauma, the pain, whatever, she should be the ONLY influencing factor in her decision.
If the male is doing anywhere near his part, she isn't the ONLY one dealing with the trauma, pain, whatever. Have you ever put up with a pregnant gf/wife for 9 months? Tell me she does it alone, & I'll remind you that you're full of it. Also, are you saying that I shouldn't have a say in what the outcome of my perspective child will be? I don't think so. It's half mine too.

Let's say it's her decision to keep the child against my wishes. Does that mean I won't be able to influence my child? Does this mean I won't be able to make any sort of decisions regarding the child's upbringing, decision making abilities, and discipline?

If what you said is true
Originally Posted by PyroManiac
she is the only one who has to deal with the trauma, the pain, whatever...
then my life hasn't been, and it won't be, affected in any ways by having children. I'd tell you I disagree, but I'll just say it straight up...you're wrong.

I'm hitting this point mostly due to a comment in the story above. The lady KNEW she wasn't ready for kids, but wanted to get off the pill because it made her "moody". Then, she couldn't handle the consequences. Who does she think she's kidding?? IMHO, give the kid a better home, and prevent this poor excuse of a woman from ever procreating again. I have a few friends that never want to have kids. A situation like this would NOT happen with them. They know where they stand and PREVENT themselves from getting into predicaments like this. It's a quality that the lady in the story is highly lacking.... RESPONSIBILITY

My $.03
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Old 07-23-2004, 04:46 PM
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I will grant that a man has to deal with SOME of the trauma, but not nearly as much as the woman. Don't take me the wrong way, I am a man. I was simply saying that if the woman is faced with an abortion, chances are that the man has NOT been doing his job.
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Old 07-23-2004, 10:03 PM
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I agree with pyromaniac... we as males, do go though some (though no where near as much) pain and hardship. This does not mean however that we should be able to say what goes on with a woman's body, or what she does with it, though as a father, we are as much a part of that baby's life as she is. Its the principle of it though. We as males should not, be able to tell a woman that she can or cannot have an abortion simply because it is her body, not ours

Her body = her choice



I know I'm going to get flamed for this but w/e...


Wouldn't you rather be a dead baby, with no idea what type of life you would have lived, or even known or thought that you were going to have a life, than a neglected unwanted baby?
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Old 07-24-2004, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Imprezastifan88
I agree with pyromaniac... we as males, do go though some (though no where near as much) pain and hardship. This does not mean however that we should be able to say what goes on with a woman's body, or what she does with it, though as a father, we are as much a part of that baby's life as she is. It’s the principle of it though. We as males should not, be able to tell a woman that she can or cannot have an abortion simply because it is her body, not ours

Her body = her choice
If she wants to put a stud through her tongue or get cosmetic surgery then I’d agree with you that it's her body and her choice.

Regardless of pain and/or hardship there's no baby unless that egg is fertilized, right? Likewise, you can't make steel without carbon and TNT without nitroglycerin. It's just that simple! If you take one variable out of the equation you're left with absolutely DICK *no-pun*.


Originally Posted by Imprezastifan88
Wouldn't you rather be a dead baby, with no idea what type of life you would have lived, or even known or thought that you were going to have a life, than a neglected unwanted baby?
Who's to say you're going to be neglected? You may not be wanted by your biological parents but I’m willing to bet money on the fact there's a struggling infertile couple wanting a child OR purpose in that child's life. Believe it or not I’m pro-choice even though it tears me apart inside knowing there's selfish people, such as yourself, making irrational choices. Who are you to make this choice? To end the life of a human being that never got a chance on life?

I know this sounds extreme but if you really, really don't want a child then you keep your ****ing **** in your pants... no sex, no *** shot’s to the crotch, no birth control necessary. It's just that simple!

If you and your partner decide to have sex on the pill while wearing a condom, sponge etc. then you've knowingly rolled the dice and are now playing with fire. If you regretfully get pregnant and abort then you're a negligent coward and murderer.

Last edited by Salty; 07-24-2004 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 07-24-2004, 12:24 AM
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im pro choice

i am also pro moronicide
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Old 07-24-2004, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by dr3d1zzl3
i am also pro moronicide
This thread's not about suicide, Dre... it's about abortion.
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Old 07-24-2004, 12:39 AM
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its only suicide if you talk them into doing it themselves.
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