HellaDumb

iTrader: (3)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7103517/site/newsweek/

Let me summarize: Bush is a freaking genius.

Comments?

P.S. Did anyone miss me during my political forum hiatus?

HellaDumb

iTrader: (3)

Man, liberals must be hating this =).

Salty

iTrader: (14)

So far everything is looking good. I even remember reading how Jon Stewart thought things were going well too in a conversation with Clinton aide Nancy Soderberg recently:




Call me crazy but I'll even go as far to accredit these current events to the low dem/lib member participation in this forum recently. They may not fully admit it, but I think it's a thought deep within the void of their mind(s).

Domestic issues aside, if the middle east is transformed with new democracies during Bush's second term -or- later as a result of Bush's actions, he will go down as one of the greatest US presidents ever. Hands down. We already had this hypothetical discussion earlier, remember? Nobody could name a single President that's revamped the Middle East and maintained a strong economy. What makes this more acceptable is that the U.S. economy has gotten stronger in Bush's second term as opposed to his first. Somewhat common in 2nd term Presidents...

Even if a Democratic President takes over years from now, and in his term in office there is a strong democratic movement in the middle east, there won't be any question that Bush help lay the foundation. This will inevitably hold true if there's not a significant turn for the worst followed by other action(s) taken to influence change in the Middle East by future Presidents as a result.

On the other hand, if the Middle East turns for the worst Bush will be ranked as a complete failure and rightfully so... Even if future, negative turn-of-events aren't directly connected to his actions as President, leftists and Dems will undoubtedly point the finger.

Only time can tell.

*I didn't include domestic issues because it won't even be a considerable factor if the Middle East is transformed.*

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

I agree with this, but domestic issues are what Bush is messing up on royaly right now (environment, education, and ss). He and his admin are VERY good at keeping the attention off of what they suck at though...good for them in terms of the way they'll look in history books.

The lack of lib/dem posts in this particular forum probably is due in part to the apparent success in the middle east, but I attribute my own absence more to the fact that there has not been sufficient DEBATEABLE topics recently in the media. The war is beat to death, social security is a joke no matter what Bush does to it, and everything I can rant about the environment and education and how Bush seems to despise both will be ignored and steared toward a discussion of the success we're having in Iraq and how the pres will go down in history as one of the greats.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

I'll agree with this.

The point I'm trying to make is if the Middle East stays on its current course it's bound to make Bush one of the best Presidents there ever was.

On the flip side, if everything turns to **** in the Middle East he'll have to eat everything regarding domestic issues on top it. It'll be a double slap in the face.

scoobsport98

iTrader: (5)

...pretty much how I feel.

So Salty, you really think that when the 'dems/libs' were participating more, it was somehow stifling the progress made by our president? I wish this measly forum had a nanofraction of that much influence.

And I hate to say it again... but when arguments from a particular side aren't given any thought or value by the 'moderator' of the forum, it doesn't do much to encourage one to come back and continue to frequent the forum. If you weren't so set on your views, and were a little more open to constuctive arguments, I think this forum would be more of a place for discussion, rather than the Limbaugh-esque, left bashing, Bush grooming parade it has become of late.

I see it as no surprise that the lefties are losing interest here. We may not have much to complain about on certain issues, but there are plenty where there remains disagreement. If we were to discuss them, I would expect a barrage of 'humerous' jabs toward stereotypical liberals trying to marginalize and liken my view to that of the average 'dirt-hippie', rather than any kind of intelligent, informed response.

Back on topic, so if Bush is a genius because this particular thing is going well, would he also be an idiot for how he has neglected education and the environment? You guys continue make it seem like everyone left of center wants the middle east to blow up in our face. After all the time, effort, money, and human lives we've spent there, we better be getting something done, and it is no surprise to me that we are beginning to see the fruits of our efforts.

Regardless, I still think this certain thing could have been held differently and done more efficiently, and, unforunately, there will always be things for people to look back and complain about. But, seriously, do you need liberals to bow to your knees and say you were right all along for validation? Yay, Bush did good... gold star for him? How bout two? There ya go, Georgie, now run along.

Or, if you want it your way, here you go:
I thought all our efforts would have been gone to complete waste... Bush is good-for-nothing...but wait, it looks like he may have done it! Oh, I, and every liberal on the planet have been proved wrong, and we should begin to consider him for the title of 'greatest president of all time,' because you know a president's only duty is to protect our nation by invading other countries and giving them the 'gift' of our way of life.

...is that what you wanted me to say?

[/rant]

...and you thought it was safe, hella.... muahahhahahhah
I like to make surprise appearances now and again.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

But I managed to get some participation. It's funny that you jumped on this post with a rebuttal when you haven't touched another post of mine recently. You must have seen them and actually read them or else you wouldn’t have noticed this one either. Hasn't there been anything worthy enough to argue in the other threads? Or maybe it's because you didn't have any reasonable argument to present?

Do you really think my arguments aren't given any thought? Wow... I even do my homework on current events unlike most others here with "axisoflogic.com" sources. I'd like to see what your views are regarding current events. Exactly how aren't my thoughts of value?

I love your demeanor in this post too... you still think I'm on the far-right, don't you? Sad.

You do realize that you've stereotyped me in earlier in this post, right?

Fine. I never said that Democrats and Liberals were hoping for failure in the Middle East. I wouldn't put it past them to dish out the "I told you so" remarks if everything went sour. It's our very competitive nature to do this for our team so why try and hide it?

If you're not surprised by the fruits of our efforts then why were you so against it in the first place? Furthermore, why hasn't any other President that you firmly supported tried to do the same thing in the past? You make it seem obvious that you're not surprised so where's the excuse? Do you actually clean your floors or do you just sweep everything under the rug?

I expected it actually. How can you legitimately argue this otherwise? If everything goes well then Al Franken would have to give Bush credit too.

HellaDumb

iTrader: (3)

Well, glad to hear you admit it is going well. I was wondering if any liberal-leaning person would admit it.

As far as education and the environment, I'd be willing to bet that there is a reasonable argument for most or all of GW's positions. By no way do I agree with all of Bush's actions, but I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt when I'm on the fence. Maybe you should start a thread about how No Child Left Behind does more harm than good, and how he's destroying the environment.

scoobsport98

iTrader: (5)

Actually, I just happened to look at this thread while searching for 'new posts'...
You still don't get my point- I used to try to argue with you, but when you aren't being listened to and your viewpoint is marginalized, it doesn't exactly spark further discussion.


Please read again.... I said MY arguments arent given any thought (thanks for the convenient example) or value by yourself. If you weren't aware, when you disregard or degrade someone's opinion, it doesn't encourage them to explain their view further.


Where did I imply that? I always hate to generalize, but in some cases one needs to classify someone on one side or another. I never said far-right... how about responding to what I actually said? I assume nothing. But, from observation, I see that you are making assumptions about my assumptions. A basis like this flat out blows for a strong argument, and only introduces flaws to be picked out.

Where exactly? Just saying I did isn't quite enough...

You think you're on a team? I guess that explains everything... j/ k But, anyway, that is a good point... I guess this is where I'm different. I don't play for a team, and I definitely wouldn'nt adjust my view of something just to satisfy some political gripe. Therefore, I didn't wish for the failure of our efforts.


Man, you know everything about me, don't ya? I never disagreed with the goals we had originally (WMD, terrorism, freedom/democracy, etc..), but as you might have noticed, our goals have somewhat shifted, and not everything has gone as smoothly as it may have if we weren't so hasty. Do you expect people who don't feel Bush is presidential material (including me) to sit back and accept that he went to war based on faulty intelligence? He's no better than Dan Rather- who's integrity has recently taken a hit. I'm not complaining about the results, nobody really is. So you guys can go on and continue to 'believe in Bush'- but that doesn't mean you should discourage others from thinking for themselves, and pointing out mistakes along the way. (this goes back to your 'team' point- you've got to expect those on the left to jump on any fault, and not exactly celebrate the successes. I think keeping this in mind would help us understand one another better. )
Expected what? Argue what? I don't exactly see what you're responding to here... But I do find it ironically humerous that you will sh*t on Franken's opinion incessantly, then turn around and beg that he gives his approval of Bushie. :haha:


As much as you may want me to so your generalizations can be validated, I don't think the way you assume I do. All I'm asking is to stop basing arguments on what someone assumes another might think. (and if you think I'm committing this very mistake, sorry, forgive me this time.) I'll be careful with the assumptions, myself... if I decide to jump into any other arguments.


...now, here's the new debate: was this bickering at all constructive? I'm hoping for 'yes', but unfortunately leaning towards 'no'

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Because maybe your arguments aren't very solid. Have you ever considered that? Honestly. It seems that everyone of your posts includes you complaining about my moderating ability, you belittling the forum or some phrase that suggests someone is wearing the American flag etc. It's gotten very old.

We all know that this forum doesn’t hold any water away from our keyboards so you’re not breaking new ground or hurting anyone’s feelings when you make those stupid comments. The only person that's consistently complained about my moderating ability is you. I'm not trying to be imperious in the slightest but I think it's because I’m thorough in a majority of my arguments.

If you incorporate everything I’ve said into a post it seems that you have the innate ability to present the same old pussyfoot point that could have otherwise been accomplished in a few sentences.

scoobsport98

iTrader: (5)

Gee, It's easy to just say things, isn't it? I'd like for you to name one argument I've made in this forum you believe is lacking thought and support. I feel I make myself clear, whether it concerns your moderation or a political topic, and I even have the patience to take the effort and explain myself over and over. It's not my fault when you decide everything I say isn't worth trying to understand- I guess I should give up, once agian, on this forum. And about your moderating, if that's what you like to call it, my goal wasn't to hurt your feelings. You asked why liberals weren't participating, and I, as a liberal, offered my reason why. I'm sure others feel the same, but don't have the gall or patience to try to get across to you.

What originally made me start 'policing' you were your multiple irrelevant, facetious responses you had made after I had taken the time to thoroughly explain my position. If you won't acknowledge someone's point and can only pick fun at it, why not post nothing and save the effort? It may be the first thing that comes to your mind, but it is also quite effective at distracting from the main point. It seems that whenever a dem. makes a good point or refutes one of yours, you can only respond with an unrelated humerous quip. I don't know if you are trying to distract attention from their point, or what, but I guess that's one way to deal with people who are willing to think a little deeper.

...I don't exactly know what to call it, but I know this isn't a political discussion forum.

And don't worry, after all you've said and gone through, I don't expect you to be able to admit any of my points are valid... After all, I'm just a mindless loon- someone please put me back in my cage.

My antics here are already getting old? I guess I should take them elsewhere... I post like once a week- geez! How do you think others feel about you? To me, Your seeming unwillingness to deal with or have intelligent discussion with those with differing political views has gotten very old.

...so there's my '*****foot' point, again... It seems I need to keep explaining it to you as it is... If I just used a few sentences like you suggested, how would you ever understand?

scoobsport98

iTrader: (5)

...sorry hella

edit: fixed pic

HellaDumb

iTrader: (3)

Ahahhahahaaa

dub2w

interesting points. remove the conjecture and you might be able to construct a viable argument.

as far as straying off topic scoobsport, Salty is infamous for draggin red herrings across legit points. Classic fallacious reasoning

famink

iTrader: (1)

I didn't relize the US economy was so great.............


National def = all time high
Interest rates = all time low

don't quote me but the US dollar = do we know how close we our to a resession?

I will admit I didnt get any facts, but I feel this country is on a knifes edge and I dont want to fall.