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Do The Secret Bush Memos Amount to Treason?

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Old 03-26-2009, 08:37 AM
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Do The Secret Bush Memos Amount to Treason?

Do the Secret Bush Memos Amount to Treason? Top Constitutional Scholar Says Yes

By Naomi Wolf, AlterNet. Posted March 25, 2009.

Legal expert Michael Ratner calls the legal arguments made in the infamous Yoo memos, "Fuhrer's law."

In early March, more shocking details emerged about George W. Bush legal counsel John Yoo's memos outlining the destruction of the republic.

The memos lay the legal groundwork for the president to send the military to wage war against U.S. citizens; take them from their homes to Navy brigs without trial and keep them forever; close down the First Amendment; and invade whatever country he chooses without regard to any treaty or objection by Congress.

It was as if Milton's Satan had a law degree and was establishing within the borders of the United States the architecture of hell.

I thought this was -- and is -- certainly one of the biggest stories of our lifetime, making the petty burglary of Watergate -- which scandalized the nation -- seem like playground antics. It is newsworthy too with the groundswell of support for prosecutions of Bush/Cheney crimes and recent actions such as Canadian attorneys mobilizing to arrest Bush if he visits their country.

The memos are a confession. The memos could not be clearer: This was the legal groundwork of an attempted coup. I expected massive front page headlines from the revelation that these memos exited. Almost nothing. I was shocked.

As a non-lawyer, was I completely off base in my reading of what this meant, I wondered? Was I hallucinating?

Astonished, I sought a reality check -- and a formal legal read -- from one of the nation's top constitutional scholars (and most steadfast patriots), Michael Ratner of the Center for Constitutional Rights, which has been at the forefront of defending the detainees and our own liberties.

Here is our conversation:

Naomi Wolf: Michael, can you explain to a layperson what the Yoo memos actually mean?'

Michael Ratner: What they mean is that your book looks moderate in respect to those issues now. This -- what is in the memos -- is law by fiat.

I call it "Fuhrer's law." What those memos lay out means the end of the system of checks and balances in this country. It means the end of the system in which the courts, legislature and executive each had a function and they could check each other.

What the memos set out is a system in which the president's word is law, and Yoo is very clear about that: the president's word is not only law according to these memos, but no law or constitutional right or treaty can restrict the president's authority.

What Yoo says is that the president's authority as commander in chief in the so-called war on terror is not bound by any law passed by Congress, any treaty, or the protections of free speech, due process and the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. The First, Fourth and Fifth amendments -- gone.

What this actually means is that the president can order the military to operate in the U.S. and to operate without constitutional restrictions. They -- the military -- can pick you or me up in the U.S. for any reason and without any legal process. They would not have any restrictions on entering your house to search it, or to seize you. They can put you into a brig without any due process or going to court. (That's the Fourth and Fifth amendments.)

The military can disregard the Posse Comitatus law, which restricts the military from acting as police in the the United States. And the president can, in the name of wartime restrictions, limit free speech. There it is in black and white: we are looking at one-person rule without any checks and balances -- a lawless state. Law by fiat.

Who has suspended the law this way in the past? It is like a Caesar's law in Rome; a Mussolini's law in Italy; a Fuhrer's law in Germany; a Stalin's law in the Soviet Union. It is right down the line. It is enforcing the will of the dictator through the military.
Read the rest of the article here.

And here is an article where the documents are explained more in-depth.
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:10 PM
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Any time someone on here posts something negative about Obama, people reply in droves about how terrible he is. But if you post something about how Bush was literally designing the destruction of our entire system and setting the stage for dictatorship, suddenly everyone is quiet.

Interesting.
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Old 03-26-2009, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by saqwarrior
Any time someone on here posts something negative about Obama, people reply in droves about how terrible he is. But if you post something about how Bush was literally designing the destruction of our entire system and setting the stage for dictatorship, suddenly everyone is quiet.

Interesting.


It's not trendy to point out who used to ignore the constitution. It's only cool to point out how the current president is the new Hitler, Stalin, or Lex Luther.

Bush is old news and it's much more fun now to sarcastically insert the words "hope" and "change" whenever possible.
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Old 03-26-2009, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Superglue WRX


It's not trendy to point out who used to ignore the constitution. It's only cool to point out how the current president is the new Hitler, Stalin, or Lex Luther.

Bush is old news and it's much more fun now to sarcastically insert the words "hope" and "change" whenever possible.
I can almost guarantee that a majority of the people here who are hyper-critical of Obama for fear of "destroying the Republic" never once uttered a single grunt of objection to Bush's literal destruction of the Republic.

Bush has laid out the framework of American Fascism for all future presidents if they so choose to build on it.
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Old 03-26-2009, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by saqwarrior
I can almost guarantee that a majority of the people here who are hyper-critical of Obama for fear of "destroying the Republic" never once uttered a single grunt of objection to Bush's literal destruction of the Republic.

Bush has laid out the framework of American Fascism for all future presidents if they so choose to build on it.
How do I submit a warranty claim?
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Old 03-26-2009, 05:53 PM
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GW used 9/11 to expand the the executive branch.
Barry is using the financial "crisis" to expand the executive branch.

Both are wrong, but since I haven't perfected time travel (yet), I can only do something about current events.
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:31 PM
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Yes. He, along with his cabinet and vice president, should be arrested for treason.
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Turbo Rob
Yes. He, along with his cabinet and vice president, should be arrested for treason...
..tried, and if found guilty, shot.
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:06 PM
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Crap...seeing that no one in the Confederacy was tried for treason, I don't ever seeing Barry being convicted.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:07 PM
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memo =/= law, legislature, ammendment, etc...

these memos are an interpretation of the laws as written. where's the treason there?

was any action taken based on the info presented in these memo's?

also, citing the huffington post as a legitimate news source is about as bad as citing michaelsavage.com as a legitimate source.
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Old 03-27-2009, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RussB
memo =/= law, legislature, ammendment, etc...

these memos are an interpretation of the laws as written. where's the treason there?

was any action taken based on the info presented in these memo's?

also, citing the huffington post as a legitimate news source is about as bad as citing michaelsavage.com as a legitimate source.
michaelsavage.com and newsmax.com aren't legit? WHAT!?!?!?!
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Old 03-27-2009, 08:19 AM
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I found this interesting:

To avoid the abuses of the English law (including executions by Henry VIII of those who criticized his repeated marriages), treason was specifically defined in the United States Constitution, the only crime so defined. Article III Section 3 delineates treason as follows:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
This pretty much limits what is considered treason in the USA.

BTW, my source was a wiki entry...is that legit?
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Old 03-27-2009, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
I found this interesting:



This pretty much limits what is considered treason in the USA.

BTW, my source was a wiki entry...is that legit?
Depends on who wrote the wiki entry. You know that can be edited by anyone right? But usually wikipedia is checked pretty well.
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Old 03-27-2009, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RussB
memo =/= law, legislature, ammendment, etc...

these memos are an interpretation of the laws as written. where's the treason there?
I don't know, that's why it's posed in the form of a question. I would argue that it shows intent, but intent alone is not treason.

Originally Posted by RussB
was any action taken based on the info presented in these memo's?
Ever heard of the U.S.A. PATRIOT Act? The entire Bush presidency was a series of actions taken to expand government power and control.

Originally Posted by RussB
also, citing the huffington post as a legitimate news source is about as bad as citing michaelsavage.com as a legitimate source.
Wrong. Michael Savage generally does not provide sources -- the article I copied comes from AlterNet, and the Huffington Post article I linked to provides sources. Here is the document in question, straight from the Department of Justice website, and here is an article from the International Herald Tribune, aka the New York Times, that says the same thing as the Huffington Post article.

I believe no single news source; if multiple news sources tell the same basic story, then I believe it a little more.

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Old 03-27-2009, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
I found this interesting:

This pretty much limits what is considered treason in the USA.

BTW, my source was a wiki entry...is that legit?
Originally Posted by SilverScoober02
Depends on who wrote the wiki entry. You know that can be edited by anyone right? But usually wikipedia is checked pretty well.
The accuracy of a wiki article is only as good as the sources it cites. If it cites none, then I'd disregard it as anecdotal.
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