Salty

iTrader: (14)

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...1-ArticlePage3

I can see two things happening here should we get attacked again:

1) People will once again blame Bush for pulling the plug.

2) People will suggest surveillance wouldn't of helped catch the suspects because there will be no way to prove it would have helped prevent the attack(s) seeing how it'll no longer be in play.

psoper

"Any electronic surveillance that was occurring as part of the Terrorist Surveillance Program will now be conducted subject to the approval of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court," Gonzales said.

As it should have been from the beginning, that was all anybody was asking for, the laws and pathways to do it legally were already in place, these bozo's just chose to disregard the law and do it their own (illegal) way.

Gonzales said a judge on the secret FISA court recently approved a government proposal allowing it to target communications into and out of the United States when probable cause exists that one person is a member of al Qaeda or an associated terrorist organization.

No excuse for surveillance not happening, just need probable cause and approval of a FISA court.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

Or 3) people say "F***ing finally, this is how it should have been all along." Then, if we get attacked in a major way again, neocons will holler for the trampling of civil rights again, and the pendulum will swing back and forth...

Salty

iTrader: (14)

I'm not saying it's not how it should have been. I'm only saying my two outcomes are real possibilities when a handful of terrorists are suddenly found to be part of something bigger after it's too late.

psoper

If the national security people would do their friggin jobs and start investigating genuine terrorists instead of wanking around and torturing people into confessing things they know nothing about, we might actually have a chance at preventing something "before its too late"

Salty

iTrader: (14)

How can you say this given what's been foiled since 9/11. Lodi, Chicago, etc.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

Hahaha...wait...someone was going to bomb Lodi? Hahahaha...boy did those would be terrorists get their intel wrong...

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Don't play dumb. There were more than a few instances when terror cells and plots were disrupted and/or foiled.

psoper

At least that's what they told you-


ever hear of any convictions on ANY of those cases?

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Hamid Hayat, Umer Hayat, Ali Al-Timimi, Adam Yahiye Gadahn, Kevin Lamar James of Jam'iyyat Ul-Islam Is-Saheeh. Narseal Batiste, Patrick Abraham, Stanley Phanor, Naudimar Herrera, Burson Augustin, Lyglenson Lemorin, and Rotschild Augustine who should face trial in the next couple months. A couple terrorist funding schemes here and there that lead to arrests of street thugs laundering money. Heavy investigations are still going on with the UK liquid scare regarding those in connection to Rashid Rauf. Details are still secret but US CT units did infiltrate cells. It's also fact that UK and American CT units had them on tap for a long time, etc. But you may not be willing to count that one.

I'm not trying to start a pissing match here. I'm just saying the balance between national security and civil liberties is a double edged sword. If something happens people need someone or something to blame. Does FISA give the same powers as before? I dunno... my guess is no considering how other measures were taken to get around it.

jvick125

iTrader: (2)

Jack Bauer ftw!!!

Seriously, though, I think it should be continued.

psoper

Like I thought, despite all of your bloviating about upcoming trials- and after 5 whole years of this "war on terra" the answer is no, there have not been ANY convictions.

There is no "balance" between national security and civil rights, anyone who would forgo their liberty in exchange for security deserves, and will receive neither.

jvick125

iTrader: (2)

My mind is drawing a blank on the name, but didn't a guy get convicted for 9/11? Or is that not what you're talking about?

psoper

Legal surveillance will continue, nobody said anything was going to stop, only that the criminals in the administration finally decided to go through the proper channels rather than doing it in a renegade illegal fashion.

psoper

and that name is.........????

(I do think that one guy in Germany may have actually been convicted as an accomplice on the 911 plot, but that was in Germany and had nothing to do with our internal security apparatus or illegal wiretapping)