Animal Cruelty
09-01-2004, 02:01 PM
#1
Animal Cruelty
http://www.planet-of-covance.com/
on a completely serious note
that is some ****ed up ****, i suggest you watch
on a completely serious note
that is some ****ed up ****, i suggest you watch
09-01-2004, 05:14 PM
#5
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I'd like to take a syringe of poison and jab it in the eye of one of those researchers as an "experiment"..... dam that was totally screwed up, another unfortunate truth we have to learn about 
09-01-2004, 06:57 PM
#7
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Yea lets ban cars too because you might hit an insect, or stop the construction of buildings, you might bury a gopher hole. Sure it sucks but such is life. You have to draw the line somewhere, and at this point we have drawn it between humans and all other animals.
09-01-2004, 07:28 PM
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Wow there are stupid hippies throughout the world. People who make videos such as this are really quite simple minded and have never really _thought_ about what it takes to make a drug, or do research. I don't even know where to start...
1. There was no abject cruelty in any of their videos. I was surprised but the clips were not really anything more than animal restraint. Sure you have to grab a 15 pound monkey that is as strong as you and has 1" teeth using some amount of force.
2. Sure toxicity testing is unpleasant to think about, but are YOU or your child/wife/mother/friend/fetus going to take a drug that hasn't been tested for side effects? I sure as hell aren't. There is NO substitute for whole animal testing. Period. I would love to hear their suggestions.
3. The pictures of the animals in the garbage is completely misinterpreted and overblown. The one monkey was gutted because they removed all the organs to perform comprehensive and specific organ/tissue toxicity. Do they suggest that we make little coffins and have vast monkey cemetaries?
4. You wouldn't BELIEVE how much regulation goes into animal research. I've only worked with mice and rats, but those little guys have more paperwork regarding their life and treatment than I do about mine.
I would propose that these people never use any product, or receive any medical care that was developed using animals.
1. There was no abject cruelty in any of their videos. I was surprised but the clips were not really anything more than animal restraint. Sure you have to grab a 15 pound monkey that is as strong as you and has 1" teeth using some amount of force.
2. Sure toxicity testing is unpleasant to think about, but are YOU or your child/wife/mother/friend/fetus going to take a drug that hasn't been tested for side effects? I sure as hell aren't. There is NO substitute for whole animal testing. Period. I would love to hear their suggestions.
3. The pictures of the animals in the garbage is completely misinterpreted and overblown. The one monkey was gutted because they removed all the organs to perform comprehensive and specific organ/tissue toxicity. Do they suggest that we make little coffins and have vast monkey cemetaries?
4. You wouldn't BELIEVE how much regulation goes into animal research. I've only worked with mice and rats, but those little guys have more paperwork regarding their life and treatment than I do about mine.
I would propose that these people never use any product, or receive any medical care that was developed using animals.
09-01-2004, 07:50 PM
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I can't justify Covance in particular because I've never heard of them before this. But that IS a propaganda film...and we have to remember two things:
-like the guy before me said, where do we draw the line. is it ok to kill rats if it cures cancer? what about dogs...what if we kill 10,000 monkeys, but it cures cancer and AIDS...human life vs. animal life...
-despite what the video tries to say, we DO need some animal testing and it DOES apply to humans. would YOU want to be the first one to ever take a new drug that no ones tested on any living thing? because if you do, I'm sure you could go take the place of one of those monkeys.
I know it's easy to believe a well made, emotionally intense propaganda film like that. But everybody please remember that most animal testing is done in accordance with laws and regulations, and that without it there would be far more human suffering than there is today.
-like the guy before me said, where do we draw the line. is it ok to kill rats if it cures cancer? what about dogs...what if we kill 10,000 monkeys, but it cures cancer and AIDS...human life vs. animal life...
-despite what the video tries to say, we DO need some animal testing and it DOES apply to humans. would YOU want to be the first one to ever take a new drug that no ones tested on any living thing? because if you do, I'm sure you could go take the place of one of those monkeys.
I know it's easy to believe a well made, emotionally intense propaganda film like that. But everybody please remember that most animal testing is done in accordance with laws and regulations, and that without it there would be far more human suffering than there is today.
09-01-2004, 08:26 PM
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^^^ you guys say that he's simple minded.... What you forgot to include is the fact that the animals are just as unwilling to do this, as much as you are. So therefore, since we can overpower them it makes it right? no. So don't give this BS crap about saying 'would YOU want to be the first one to ever take a new drug' because the monkeys, apes, and whatever primates don't want to either, so how does it make it right?
Also so what if there's laws regarding this stuff. If some other country made a law, with strict enforcement and regulations that say that country can do toxicity tests on any foreignor is that right?
You can call me all you want, you can flame me all you want. Yes I also understand that this is a propaganda flash. No, I would not be the first in line to take the toxicity test, but i'd be in line to stop all products that require it and stop this. You say, the people who made this should never use products that were tested on animals, but with how society is it's pretty damn hard not to.
Also so what if there's laws regarding this stuff. If some other country made a law, with strict enforcement and regulations that say that country can do toxicity tests on any foreignor is that right?
You can call me all you want, you can flame me all you want. Yes I also understand that this is a propaganda flash. No, I would not be the first in line to take the toxicity test, but i'd be in line to stop all products that require it and stop this. You say, the people who made this should never use products that were tested on animals, but with how society is it's pretty damn hard not to.
09-01-2004, 09:51 PM
#11
What's so necessary about testing on animals? Wouldn’t it make more sense to test products that will be used on humans on humans? Then results would be more accurate. And if there is a possibility that a product will cause harm to the person using it, then why would you want to market that product to begin with? Who says that results from experiments tested on rodents can be legitimately be applied to humans anyway? It just doesn’t make sense to me.
It’s cruel and unfair to treat animals as “specimens” or “inventory.” I’m not sure who or what gave humans the idea that animals are below them, and it’s okay to use them for their cruel experiments. Just because we have the ability to control animals and hold them captive doesn’t mean we should.
I’m not your stereotypical animal rights activist hippie, I hate PETA, and I don’t hand out anti-fur propaganda in front of department stores, but I still make a small effort to steer clear of products that I know are tested on animals. I don’t purchase anything that’s distributed by Proctor & Gamble, and if at all possible, I buy products labeled cruelty free. Sometimes it’s unavoidable (for example prescription medications), but I do what I can. Even if you can’t stop animal testing, that doesn’t mean you have to support it.
It’s cruel and unfair to treat animals as “specimens” or “inventory.” I’m not sure who or what gave humans the idea that animals are below them, and it’s okay to use them for their cruel experiments. Just because we have the ability to control animals and hold them captive doesn’t mean we should.
I’m not your stereotypical animal rights activist hippie, I hate PETA, and I don’t hand out anti-fur propaganda in front of department stores, but I still make a small effort to steer clear of products that I know are tested on animals. I don’t purchase anything that’s distributed by Proctor & Gamble, and if at all possible, I buy products labeled cruelty free. Sometimes it’s unavoidable (for example prescription medications), but I do what I can. Even if you can’t stop animal testing, that doesn’t mean you have to support it.
09-01-2004, 10:01 PM
#12
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Test on a monkey, or test on you. How could drugs be ethically tested on humans. If you argue that they shouldn't...well I can't really help you then...
"Ok here is this new depression drug...OH WHOOPS it made you **** blood and think you're a donkey!!! Well we could've prevented this by injecting 20 monkeys, but that's been banned in favor of straight-to-humans testing"
And kellie I don't feel like arguing with hypocrites.
"Sometimes it's necessary"...you know...when I get sick....
So what about testing drugs...apparently then you were ok with benefitting from animal testing. Just admit you can't be an adult deal with the reality...were sometimes the choices are difficult and either choice is not ideal.
I'd like to see you avoid buying P&G products...they probably have a hand in 50% of the products at Safeway.
I would kill 5000 monkeys to save a loved one without batting an eye. I know you would too. Just admit it.
"Ok here is this new depression drug...OH WHOOPS it made you **** blood and think you're a donkey!!! Well we could've prevented this by injecting 20 monkeys, but that's been banned in favor of straight-to-humans testing"
And kellie I don't feel like arguing with hypocrites.
"Sometimes it's necessary"...you know...when I get sick....
So what about testing drugs...apparently then you were ok with benefitting from animal testing. Just admit you can't be an adult deal with the reality...were sometimes the choices are difficult and either choice is not ideal.
I'd like to see you avoid buying P&G products...they probably have a hand in 50% of the products at Safeway.
I would kill 5000 monkeys to save a loved one without batting an eye. I know you would too. Just admit it.
09-01-2004, 10:03 PM
#13
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If you haven't guessed, sore subject for pizza. 
I apologize in advance to any and all people I may offend with my diatribes/insults, it's not intended to be personal.
As long as no one mentions stem cell research, I think I'll make it through this thread without my head exploding. lol
I apologize in advance to any and all people I may offend with my diatribes/insults, it's not intended to be personal.
As long as no one mentions stem cell research, I think I'll make it through this thread without my head exploding. lol
09-02-2004, 10:04 AM
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I have to reiterate my point:
Animal testing IS neccesary, that is NOT opinion, it is a fact. Chemotherapy. The chemo part means chemical. It KILLS cells. Cancerous ones. And a few non-cancerous ones. But there ARE chemicals that kill cancerous cells, and kill regular cells even better. So how do you know the difference between the types? Which chemical will cure Grandpa with prostate cancer or grandma with breast cancer, while not killing them? YOU TEST ON ANIMALS, SO YOU DON'T KILL HUMANS. If you want to give people a hard time about killing animals, give sport hunters a hard time. Nothing except enjoyment is gained from their killing. Animal testing and research has saved countless HUMAN lives already, and yes I believe strongly that human life is the most valuable type of life (you do too, otherwise you'd commit suicide in the woods so your body could feed some bears or fertilize a tree).
Animal testing IS neccesary, that is NOT opinion, it is a fact. Chemotherapy. The chemo part means chemical. It KILLS cells. Cancerous ones. And a few non-cancerous ones. But there ARE chemicals that kill cancerous cells, and kill regular cells even better. So how do you know the difference between the types? Which chemical will cure Grandpa with prostate cancer or grandma with breast cancer, while not killing them? YOU TEST ON ANIMALS, SO YOU DON'T KILL HUMANS. If you want to give people a hard time about killing animals, give sport hunters a hard time. Nothing except enjoyment is gained from their killing. Animal testing and research has saved countless HUMAN lives already, and yes I believe strongly that human life is the most valuable type of life (you do too, otherwise you'd commit suicide in the woods so your body could feed some bears or fertilize a tree).