Wilwood Drawbacks
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8
From: Tampabay, FL.
Car Info: Silver 03' WRX
Pete,
I am also considering the Wilwood kit and facing the same concerns. I wrote to a fellow WRX owner out west that has the Wilwood 6 pots up front and the 4 pot kit in back. He swears by them. Here’s the highlight of his response to me:
“As far as I have experienced, the Wilwoods have been very easy to maintain. I haven’t yet rebuilt mine, but did rebuild a few others. Very easy, took about 5 mins, and did it at the track. The 6pots fronts are one of the best kits I have found yet. They have well matched piston size, which results in pretty good pedal feel, and the bias stays acceptable. While I have the rear Wilwood kit as well, I really don't think it is needed. The stock rear setup works well with the Front Wilwoods.” “It is a good kit, and pretty cheap for pads/etc. There probably is a greater amount of maintenance then perhaps some other kit, but honestly I think that is a good thing. It is good to spend some time at least once a season taking the brakes off the car and checking them over..... not something you want to fail.
” Jeff is a great guy and has an awesome web site decated to his WRX club. Here's the URL:
http://www.wrxworld.com
Hope this helps,
Jimmy
I am also considering the Wilwood kit and facing the same concerns. I wrote to a fellow WRX owner out west that has the Wilwood 6 pots up front and the 4 pot kit in back. He swears by them. Here’s the highlight of his response to me:
“As far as I have experienced, the Wilwoods have been very easy to maintain. I haven’t yet rebuilt mine, but did rebuild a few others. Very easy, took about 5 mins, and did it at the track. The 6pots fronts are one of the best kits I have found yet. They have well matched piston size, which results in pretty good pedal feel, and the bias stays acceptable. While I have the rear Wilwood kit as well, I really don't think it is needed. The stock rear setup works well with the Front Wilwoods.” “It is a good kit, and pretty cheap for pads/etc. There probably is a greater amount of maintenance then perhaps some other kit, but honestly I think that is a good thing. It is good to spend some time at least once a season taking the brakes off the car and checking them over..... not something you want to fail.
” Jeff is a great guy and has an awesome web site decated to his WRX club. Here's the URL:http://www.wrxworld.com
Hope this helps,
Jimmy
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,780
From: San Diego
Car Info: Boosted Geo Prizm
I'd rather get a tried and true race pruven setup like the Stoptech kit. Gary Sheehan uses it on his race prepped USTCC WRX.
Although the TWR and iON performance kits are also looking good from a parts included standpoint.
Although the TWR and iON performance kits are also looking good from a parts included standpoint.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks for the new info. I've been hoping to hear from owners who have, say a year on their Wilwoods and how much maintenance is needed in say 15,000-20,000 miles. Looking through the archives and researching the Wilwoods, it seems like the two big things are the dust shield (requiring regular maintenance) and noise (who wants to live with that in a daily car).
So, I'm down to:
-Baer front kit at $900
-Stoptech's kit at $1600~
-Prodrive kit at $1700~
Did a Baer kit on my old Merkur years ago and it was GREAT for the money. The big thing is getting more rotor mass, and though the Perrin kit improves the caliper, it's cooling capacity that I am after.
Like the Stoptech kit and its rotors, though I'd prefer the Prodrive "factory" legitimacy. But then you get stuck with a heavy steel rotor when Stoptech does it in two pieces. And I feel that Brembo is too much money for what you get.
pete
So, I'm down to:
-Baer front kit at $900
-Stoptech's kit at $1600~
-Prodrive kit at $1700~
Did a Baer kit on my old Merkur years ago and it was GREAT for the money. The big thing is getting more rotor mass, and though the Perrin kit improves the caliper, it's cooling capacity that I am after.
Like the Stoptech kit and its rotors, though I'd prefer the Prodrive "factory" legitimacy. But then you get stuck with a heavy steel rotor when Stoptech does it in two pieces. And I feel that Brembo is too much money for what you get.
pete
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Posts: 2,341
From: your friendly neighborhood hairpin
Car Info: '03 PSM Sedan
where have you been able to find information on the Baer kit? i checked out Baer's site, but there wasn't anything. Tirerack.com has Baer rotors, but nothing else.
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Posts: n/a
Did a google search for "Baer WRX" and got a direct link to their page on the kit. Nothing sexy with a very plain caliper (sadly painted red) and steel rotor. But Baer adresses what's needed, more heat-handling capability through a significantly larger rotor.
So it may be a bit heavy, but hard to argue with $850-ish -- half the price of the other big-rotor/sexy caliper kits and 1/3 the price of Brembos.
The Baer kit I ordered last time (for an XR4Ti) was the same money, went on in less than an hour and half, and made a world of difference. No fade and no wiggle. Plus, if you can either get the calipers with no paint and resist drilled rotors, they'd look pretty stealth.
I like that idea from the Q-ship angle as well as the theft-deterence angle, but must confess I've always liked sexy brakes...
pete
So it may be a bit heavy, but hard to argue with $850-ish -- half the price of the other big-rotor/sexy caliper kits and 1/3 the price of Brembos.
The Baer kit I ordered last time (for an XR4Ti) was the same money, went on in less than an hour and half, and made a world of difference. No fade and no wiggle. Plus, if you can either get the calipers with no paint and resist drilled rotors, they'd look pretty stealth.
I like that idea from the Q-ship angle as well as the theft-deterence angle, but must confess I've always liked sexy brakes...
pete
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 7
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Car Info: 1986 944 Turbo, 2002 WRX Wagon
The Baer kit is a Vette Z06, ala C5R brake caliper. Its a very good caliper mated to a big rotor.
One thing I don't understand is how did Wilwood 6/4's get such a bad name?
The Brembo's are worth the money in my book. I'm running a set on a 951. Braking is one area where cash willing, one should not skimp and overkill does not hurt.
Proven? Proven is Brembo and Wilwood. Both of these companies have been doing this for decades. I would trust them easily over startups.
I personally like the Baer kit for its price, and can not overlook the Wilwood 6/4 for what you get for the money. Besides, I always change pads once a year on my daily drivers and the occasional track day. Plus, 5 minute pad changes are something that ranks pretty high for me.
One thing I don't understand is how did Wilwood 6/4's get such a bad name?
The Brembo's are worth the money in my book. I'm running a set on a 951. Braking is one area where cash willing, one should not skimp and overkill does not hurt.
Proven? Proven is Brembo and Wilwood. Both of these companies have been doing this for decades. I would trust them easily over startups.
I personally like the Baer kit for its price, and can not overlook the Wilwood 6/4 for what you get for the money. Besides, I always change pads once a year on my daily drivers and the occasional track day. Plus, 5 minute pad changes are something that ranks pretty high for me.
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Agree on many of your points, and five-minute pad changes sound great to me, too. Large rotors tend to live under-stressed lives, too. My question is, whether I'm willing to put up with the regular maintenace dictated by the lack of dust shields in the Wilwoods. Or, perhaps better put, am I willing to deal with race-car calipers in a street-car application?
As for the value equation, I feel the Baers (at $850-900) are a very good buy, the Stoptechs, Cobbs, and Prodrives ($1700-ish) seem to be good value, and the Wilwood all-four-wheels setup is a very good value as well. The Brembos, which I have come to trust on Porsches for a number of years (and PCCBs are unbelievable having been blessed to drive the GT2, GT3, and two weeks ago the Carrera GT), are fantastic brakes as you rightly point out and it's probably the best street-car brake company in the world. And I agree brakes are not the place to skimp. That said, $2,400-2,800 is -- IMHO -- too much money for a front setup only on a car that costs $22,000 -- especially when the Prodrives are Alcons and the Baer kit looks to have good bits, too.
All that said, I really appreciate your input and it'll be very, very useful as I go on to make this decision. Want to do it once only. Now, if I can just convince the Mrs. regarding a little extra discretionary income...
pete
As for the value equation, I feel the Baers (at $850-900) are a very good buy, the Stoptechs, Cobbs, and Prodrives ($1700-ish) seem to be good value, and the Wilwood all-four-wheels setup is a very good value as well. The Brembos, which I have come to trust on Porsches for a number of years (and PCCBs are unbelievable having been blessed to drive the GT2, GT3, and two weeks ago the Carrera GT), are fantastic brakes as you rightly point out and it's probably the best street-car brake company in the world. And I agree brakes are not the place to skimp. That said, $2,400-2,800 is -- IMHO -- too much money for a front setup only on a car that costs $22,000 -- especially when the Prodrives are Alcons and the Baer kit looks to have good bits, too.
All that said, I really appreciate your input and it'll be very, very useful as I go on to make this decision. Want to do it once only. Now, if I can just convince the Mrs. regarding a little extra discretionary income...
pete
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-So the Baer kit uses PBR calipers, the Prodrives are Alcons, whose calipers are the Stoptech brakes using? I thought I read about this somewhere, but now I can't remember.
-What about squeaky brakes with the Wilwoods. I see flak posted about that here and there, what have you guys heard?
Also interesting: Baer appears to have three ways to go. The rotors Dropkick Muppet mentions that are available thru Tire Rack, the 13-inch GT setup we've been discussing with the Corvette cailpers, but also a 12.5-inch kit with what looks to be the same caliper -- AND IT FITS UNDER THE STOCK WHEELS! I'm running larger wheels, but I kinda like the idea of being able to still bolt the stockers on.
I just don't seem to see much on the boards about this stuff, can anybody supply a link?
Thanks!
pete
-What about squeaky brakes with the Wilwoods. I see flak posted about that here and there, what have you guys heard?
Also interesting: Baer appears to have three ways to go. The rotors Dropkick Muppet mentions that are available thru Tire Rack, the 13-inch GT setup we've been discussing with the Corvette cailpers, but also a 12.5-inch kit with what looks to be the same caliper -- AND IT FITS UNDER THE STOCK WHEELS! I'm running larger wheels, but I kinda like the idea of being able to still bolt the stockers on.
I just don't seem to see much on the boards about this stuff, can anybody supply a link?
Thanks!
pete
Yeah, You've Probably Never Heard Of Me.
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From: in a glass case of emotion.
Car Info: 345/30/19s
Nice thing about the stop-techs is that they are extensivly tested on the cars they are going to be made for, and not just fit-tested. A member of the 350Z board I frequent was their car and they had it for about a week testing its performance to get the right caliper/piston size combo.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 7
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Car Info: 1986 944 Turbo, 2002 WRX Wagon
They didn't test enough as there are some serious problems with WRX Wagons, ie clicking and pad knockback issues. I haven't heard of this problem with other kits. I'm sure the problem is resolved with the v2 caliper, but we'll see. It should be noted that this is not a problem on sedans.
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From: San Jose, CA
Car Info: http://goo.gl/XpkO0b & '99 SF 'S'
My Wilwood experience/feedback:
I purchased a full used set (front and rear) of Wilwood/Perrin 4 pot calipers and the DBA sloted front w/steelbraided brake lines. Also, the rear 2 pot Wilwood/Perrin kit with non-slotted rotors was installed. This setup supposedly had around 500 miles on it. Also, i'm not sure how much track use it had also (ask wrexr) as I forgot to ask.
https://www.i-club.com/forums/showth...threadid=30910
I took this setup to Laguna Seca and I was quite pleased with the performance. I didn't experience brake fade even while hitting hard on the brakes about 300 feet from turn 2 and at turns 10 and 11. I didn't rebuild the calipers, nor did I replace the pads or turn the rotors (probably not a good idea). The brakes worked great, but they could have worked much better had I performed the above, reason being I didn't have time to before track day.
As a side note, my friend with his '03 WRX sedan, who has the stock brakes ended up overheating them and had to cut his track day after the 2nd 20 minute session.
I feel these brakes perform good, and they are worth the money. As a side, I also noticed the Radicals were also using 4 pot Wilwood calipers on all 4 wheels.
Lastly, I don't have any clicking or squealing, but I have a little pad rubbing noise coming from the rear probably due to not turning the rotors and using the old 'E' compound pads.
I'm going to order 2 sets of replacement pads, 'Q' compound for the street, and another set of 'E' for the track. The pads are fairly inexpensive (less than $50 a set) and rebuilding the calipers (when needed) is a snap and the seals cost only $7 for 4 (need 3 sets for two 4 pot, and two 2 pot). I'm going to turn the rotors before I install the replacement pads.
I purchased a full used set (front and rear) of Wilwood/Perrin 4 pot calipers and the DBA sloted front w/steelbraided brake lines. Also, the rear 2 pot Wilwood/Perrin kit with non-slotted rotors was installed. This setup supposedly had around 500 miles on it. Also, i'm not sure how much track use it had also (ask wrexr) as I forgot to ask.
https://www.i-club.com/forums/showth...threadid=30910
I took this setup to Laguna Seca and I was quite pleased with the performance. I didn't experience brake fade even while hitting hard on the brakes about 300 feet from turn 2 and at turns 10 and 11. I didn't rebuild the calipers, nor did I replace the pads or turn the rotors (probably not a good idea). The brakes worked great, but they could have worked much better had I performed the above, reason being I didn't have time to before track day.
As a side note, my friend with his '03 WRX sedan, who has the stock brakes ended up overheating them and had to cut his track day after the 2nd 20 minute session.
I feel these brakes perform good, and they are worth the money. As a side, I also noticed the Radicals were also using 4 pot Wilwood calipers on all 4 wheels.
Lastly, I don't have any clicking or squealing, but I have a little pad rubbing noise coming from the rear probably due to not turning the rotors and using the old 'E' compound pads.
I'm going to order 2 sets of replacement pads, 'Q' compound for the street, and another set of 'E' for the track. The pads are fairly inexpensive (less than $50 a set) and rebuilding the calipers (when needed) is a snap and the seals cost only $7 for 4 (need 3 sets for two 4 pot, and two 2 pot). I'm going to turn the rotors before I install the replacement pads.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 330
From: At the Ritz Carlton, in the pool bar.
Car Info: 2005 Legacy GT "lightweight"
I also have the rear 2pots and love them! Took them to the track and they were awsome!
My fronts are Subie 4pots.
I have DBA rotors all around with ss braided lines and Motul fluids.
I plan on getting AEM rotors upp front and will bombard Perrin to make a bracket to replace the one in his kit for one that will clear the rear AEM kit.
My fronts are Subie 4pots.
I have DBA rotors all around with ss braided lines and Motul fluids.
I plan on getting AEM rotors upp front and will bombard Perrin to make a bracket to replace the one in his kit for one that will clear the rear AEM kit.