What's up with KBB values?
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What's up with KBB values?
Who else here thinks the KBB values are way off. Someone locally is trying to sell an 04 wrx with 7500 miles and will not drop lower than the KBB value of $22,130. I tried explaining that you can buy a brand new one with a lower APR for less than $23,000, but he wouldn't budge.
Where does KBB get their values. It seems so unrealistic. I think I'll just go buy new. What ever happened to the benefit of buying a barely used car off the lot?
What do you guys think would be a good price to pay for a barely used wrx? What price would make it worth it over brand new?
Where does KBB get their values. It seems so unrealistic. I think I'll just go buy new. What ever happened to the benefit of buying a barely used car off the lot?
What do you guys think would be a good price to pay for a barely used wrx? What price would make it worth it over brand new?
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KBB is pretty flawed. They don't much take in to account the market trends or anything of that nature. A better bet for a REAL value would be www.nadaguides.com (what the dealers use) and www.edmunds.com.
Show that to this dreamer and see if he comes down in price. If not go buy a new one.
Show that to this dreamer and see if he comes down in price. If not go buy a new one.
Originally Posted by jdepould
"Kelly doesn't buy cars."
Edmunds is terrible, kbb is what people actually buy theres for and has been the market standard since before edmunds was around and is accepted everywhere. The fact is Subaru's hold their value really well, and on top of that 23 g's you got tax license which is like 10% here. 19.7 is way too low for that car. 21.5 or so (asuming the cars in exellent condition would be good). He has to be willing to drop some to sell it, usually if the car has any scratches that are minor or anything get him to go in between good/exellent condition.
Originally Posted by jdepould
It's an 04 for starters, and KBB is . . . uh, optomistic to say the least. A car will never depreciate more rapidly than in the 4 seconds it takes to sign your name.
For starters he says he could buy a new one for 22, uh maybe you don't know it we are actually in 05 now.......yea.............dumaS$
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Originally Posted by chrisrex
What ever happened to the benefit of buying a barely used car off the lot?
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keep in mind that kelley blue book updates every 2 months. their values are based on objective information. information is passed on to them in terms of what cars are being sold at. the same is for NADA and edmunds. the problem with nada is that they start with a very low base and work the way up in terms of options etc. kbb is slightly opposite.
we as dealerships use all the sources you guys listed as well as log on to manheim.com <--- that is the most awesome site to find true market values. it tells us what cars have actually been sold at, on a national and local scale.(in terms of dealer auctions)
another way to gauge value is that we call other dealerships to see what they are paying for the cars.
with all said... all sources are not the BIBLE.. merely a guide.
aloha from the summit of *-^-Mauna Kea-^-*
we as dealerships use all the sources you guys listed as well as log on to manheim.com <--- that is the most awesome site to find true market values. it tells us what cars have actually been sold at, on a national and local scale.(in terms of dealer auctions)
another way to gauge value is that we call other dealerships to see what they are paying for the cars.
with all said... all sources are not the BIBLE.. merely a guide.
aloha from the summit of *-^-Mauna Kea-^-*
Last edited by gdogg; Jan 29, 2005 at 11:21 AM.
Originally Posted by gdogg
keep in mind that kelley blue book updates every 2 months. their values are based on objective information. information is passed on to them in terms of what cars are being sold at. the same is for NADA and edmunds. the problem with nada is that they start with a very low base and work the way up in terms of options etc. kbb is slightly opposite.
we as dealerships use all the sources you guys listed as well as log on to manheim.com <--- that is the most awesome site to find true market values. it tells us what cars have actually been sold at, on a national and local scale.(in terms of dealer auctions)
another way to gauge value is that we call other dealerships to see what they are paying for the cars.
with all said... all sources are not the BIBLE.. merely a guide.
aloha from the summit of *-^-Mauna Kea-^-*
we as dealerships use all the sources you guys listed as well as log on to manheim.com <--- that is the most awesome site to find true market values. it tells us what cars have actually been sold at, on a national and local scale.(in terms of dealer auctions)
another way to gauge value is that we call other dealerships to see what they are paying for the cars.
with all said... all sources are not the BIBLE.. merely a guide.
aloha from the summit of *-^-Mauna Kea-^-*
Anyone who says kbb is stupid and doesn't matter obvioulsly doesn't know much about cars........
and dealer auctions and private party sales have nothing to do with each other, that doesn't apply so....
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"Emunds is not a good tool!!! You all must know edmunds only gets prices from dealers who lie and use it as a tool to low ball people."
I don't believe this. A used car is just that, used. Someone has driven it potentially hard, not followed the break in period, and, in the case of this car for sale, driven a car approx. for 6 months (assuming an average of 15k per year). KBB states that the value of this car (good condition) is a grand or so less than a brand new one. I think Edmunds is more in tune with the way this car should be priced than KBB.
"The fact is Subaru's hold their value really well, and on top of that 23 g's you got tax license which is like 10% here."
I don't see your point here since you also pay tax and license on a used car.
"usually if the car has any scratches that are minor or anything get him to go in between good/exellent condition."
The KBB price was for good condition (generally the standard on a used car).
I don't believe this. A used car is just that, used. Someone has driven it potentially hard, not followed the break in period, and, in the case of this car for sale, driven a car approx. for 6 months (assuming an average of 15k per year). KBB states that the value of this car (good condition) is a grand or so less than a brand new one. I think Edmunds is more in tune with the way this car should be priced than KBB.
"The fact is Subaru's hold their value really well, and on top of that 23 g's you got tax license which is like 10% here."
I don't see your point here since you also pay tax and license on a used car.
"usually if the car has any scratches that are minor or anything get him to go in between good/exellent condition."
The KBB price was for good condition (generally the standard on a used car).
Originally Posted by chrisrex
"Emunds is not a good tool!!! You all must know edmunds only gets prices from dealers who lie and use it as a tool to low ball people."
I don't believe this. A used car is just that, used. Someone has driven it potentially hard, not followed the break in period, and, in the case of this car for sale, driven a car approx. for 6 months (assuming an average of 15k per year). KBB states that the value of this car (good condition) is a grand or so less than a brand new one. I think Edmunds is more in tune with the way this car should be priced than KBB.
"The fact is Subaru's hold their value really well, and on top of that 23 g's you got tax license which is like 10% here."
I don't see your point here since you also pay tax and license on a used car.
"usually if the car has any scratches that are minor or anything get him to go in between good/exellent condition."
The KBB price was for good condition (generally the standard on a used car).
I don't believe this. A used car is just that, used. Someone has driven it potentially hard, not followed the break in period, and, in the case of this car for sale, driven a car approx. for 6 months (assuming an average of 15k per year). KBB states that the value of this car (good condition) is a grand or so less than a brand new one. I think Edmunds is more in tune with the way this car should be priced than KBB.
"The fact is Subaru's hold their value really well, and on top of that 23 g's you got tax license which is like 10% here."
I don't see your point here since you also pay tax and license on a used car.
"usually if the car has any scratches that are minor or anything get him to go in between good/exellent condition."
The KBB price was for good condition (generally the standard on a used car).
Ok buddy well if you are buying a car from someone you think didn't follow the break in period (there is no way you can know that and are probably wrong) then you are a dumbsh1t anyways. So believe what you want about edmunds. That is not the standard for a used car, a 2004. One year old. You sound like a dealer, are you sure you don't work for one?? haha....anyways Excellent condition is excellent condition so believe what you want either way but the fact is KBB is respected for a reason.
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Originally Posted by slow04wrx
Ok buddy well if you are buying a car from someone you think didn't follow the break in period (there is no way you can know that and are probably wrong) then you are a dumbsh1t anyways. So believe what you want about edmunds. That is not the standard for a used car, a 2004. One year old. You sound like a dealer, are you sure you don't work for one?? haha....anyways Excellent condition is excellent condition so believe what you want either way but the fact is KBB is respected for a reason.
About the break in period, the simple fact is you don't know whether or not the car was broken in or driven properly, which, IMO should add a premium when buying new. A 2004 model is a year older than a brand new WRX, which means a year older in depreciation and resale value.
Why would you think I'm a dealer? I'm on the other end looking for a car.
Go to a dealership and check trade-in values on a car. They will always quote good condition no matter how "excellent" the car may be. That same car being offered for sale in "excellent" condition instead of "good" condition is $23,600 on KBB. I know a dealership offering that exact same car, same options, 2005 model brand new for $23,888. A quote for $300 off a brand new one doesn't sound like a realistic appraisal.
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Originally Posted by slow04wrx
1.Anyone who says kbb is stupid and doesn't matter obvioulsly doesn't know much about cars........
2.and dealer auctions and private party sales have nothing to do with each other....
2.and dealer auctions and private party sales have nothing to do with each other....
2. what exactly do you mean?
assessing a cars value (IMO) requires more than just using one source. look online, get access to dealer auction records(manheim), call local dealerships, and look in the newspaper(classifieds) to compare pricing.
*edit* and slow04wrx, did u ever sell your wrx?
aloha from the summit of *-^-Mauna Kea-^-*
Last edited by gdogg; Jan 29, 2005 at 06:44 PM.