meilers

I just picked up a bottle of this for $8.00; it is supposed to be similar to Redline Water Wetter in that it is designed to enhance radiator fluid performance. Does anyone have any experience with this stuff, before I pour it in?

Currently my 02 WRX is 100% coolant (no water); that's the way it came back from the dealership after the 30k mile service. Should I suction out a gallon of the coolant and replace that with distilled water? We're already hitting 90 degrees here in Arizona, and I've got a long, hot summer ahead of me; anything I can do to keep those temps down will help. Do the watter-wetter additives do anything? Will it interact in a bad way with the factory coolant (a nasty, cloudy yellow-green slime...)? Water or no water?

kewldan

iTrader: (2)

Let me know how it works out for you, I could use some myself.

meilers

Well, if I relied upon the "dummy gauge" in my dash, I'd never know the difference -- that stupid POS tells you nothing until it is too late.

I'm going to install an ECUTek ECU monitor in the next week or so; maybe I will use that to track my coolant temps for a few weeks, then add the Purple Ice and compare data... In any case, I'd still like to hear opinions on whether to add/substitute some actual water to my coolant.

GotBoost?

iTrader: (3)

as far as I know, you aren't supposed to run 100% coolant....unless you are in EXTREMELY COLD climates....the coolant wont freeze, so thats why you wouldnt want water in your radiator in cold areas. In moderate/warm areas, a 50/50 coolant-to-water mix would be just about perfect. The water wetter is a wetting agent that will provide rust and corrosion protection in plain water which provides much better heat transfer properties than glycol-based antifreeze, plus it can be added to new or used antifreeze to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems. It is compatible with all antifreezes, including the latest long-life variations.

bits and pieces of my post were taken from here.

hope this helps.

-Ted

meilers

I think the subaru factory/OEM coolant the dealership puts in is "premix," meaning that it has some water in it. However, it is neon-green and thick as molasses; it looks just like PEAK straight from the bottle. After reading this I'm leaning much more towards replacing a gallon of the coolant with distilled water.

Kevin M

iTrader: (12)

You definitely should add water. Water is the best coolant there is, period. There are only 3 reasons to run anti-freeze/coolant with water. Lower the freezing point, raise the boiling point, and prevent corrosion. 50/50 is the most coolant you would want, even in colder climates. Meilers, I know you don't have to worry about that.

The Water Wetter is apparently very good at what it does. I'll come back when I can find the link I read once where a thermodynamics engineer commented on it.

That was easy. Here it is.

meilers

Wow, that was an interesting read. Why the heck did the dealership fill my radiator with stuff so thick I can't even see through it? You'd think a dealership in Arizona would be clued in to the benefits of using water (not to mention that a viscous fluid might not flow as well as water would through tiny lines SUCH AS THE ONE TO THE TURBO). Now I am very interested to get my ECUtek monitor installed and document my actual coolant temps so I can do a "before and after" comparison.

meilers

Well, this is interesting!

I got my ECUTek monitor installed (I'll post a review and a how-to here and on Scoobymods soon) and much to my dismay, about 10 minutes into my test drive an alarm goes off and tells me my coolant temps are too high -- 210 degrees farenheit, to be exact! Yet I look over to the left to my old "dummy" gauge on the dash, and it sits there serenely right in the middle, never moving a milimeter.

Which leads me to a question: what is the optimal/ideal coolant temp for an EJ20? If the ECUTek thinks this is a bad situation (and coolant approaching boiling after driving for just ten minutes on a 80-degree day seems bad!) then something must be amiss, yet my stock temp gauge doesn't even blink.

I did several searches on this at both I-club and WRXtacy, and I can't seem to find a single post which says "my temp gauge for coolant temp reads XXX, which is the ideal temp." So, what does YOUR temp gauge read?

My plan was to track my coolant temps for a week, then try the Purple Ice and water "upgrade" and compare the results with another week of data. I'm so dismayed by my coolant temps right now (on this nice 76-degree day!) I think I may have to just throw the water in right away... I don't understand HOW the dealership sent me home from a 30,000 mile service with coolant temps that high!

Mulder

Perhaps you should ask your dealer what mix they put in there, before you add water or otherwise change anything?
You can also go to the store and get an antifreeze tester which should give you an idea of what the concentration is and show the boiling/freezing point.
The reading of 210 is in the normal operating range and not dangerous as long as it doesn't go a lot higher. At that temp the fans should be running though, if they're not something may be fishy. The fans in the WRX are supposed to come on at 203F.
Also bear in mind that while 212F is the boiling point of water at atmospheric pressure, it's higher for coolant in a pressurized cooling system so at 210 it's nowhere near boiling.
In the event the dealer did somehow fill it with 100% coolant that isn't good, coolant is actually less efficient than pure water for heat transfer which is why exceeding a 50-50 mix isn't recommended. The use of coolant is necessary for freeze protection and also for the additives it contains.
Finally it is possible that the dealer did not properly purge the system of air when they did the service, this is known to happen. If there are air pockets left in the cooling system the car can overheat in a very short time, so chances are you'd know this by now.

meilers

Yes, thanks for noting that; I'll get the antifreeze tester and call the dealership tomorrow. I still want to know if anyone knows the ideal coolant temp for the EJ20 or can tell me their peak/norm temps.

I also noticed something else disturbing, thanks to my now-accurate temp readings: as expected, my coolant temps skyrocket while sitting at a stoplight (the fans are running, I checked) but actually driving forward barely lowers the temps at all. I would hope that cool air being forced through the radiator had a bigger effect on the core temp, but driving for 10 minutes at a modest 35 MPH (2600 RPM or so) only lowered the temp from 210 to 198!

Mulder

Remember the thermostat is set at 195, so it will begin to close if the temp drops lower. The system is designed to keep the normal operating temp within a fairly narrow range. If you had an oil temp gauge you'd see larger changes there from moving slowly/moving fast/not moving.
The reason the temp gauge on the dash is calibrated the way it is, is to alert you only if there is a serious problem with the coolant system and the temps begin to go out of the proper range. Otherwise it's comforting for the average driver to have the gauge go up to the middle and stay there without moving around. If the gauge were allowed to fluctuate more with insignificant changes in temperature there would be people going to dealers for no reason.

meilers

Yes, that is absolutely the case -- when I complained about the farcical inaccuracy of the dash temp gauge, the dealer said exactly that: we can't give sports car owners an accurate one, because they'll be in here every week asking about a 3-degree difference or asking why their WRX runs a few degrees hotter than a friend's model.

The reason I'm being a bit overcautious about temperature is that I live in PHOENIX, ARIZONA -- soon to be hitting 100-degrees-plus for the next four months solid. Add to that the pressure of running air conditioning and 30+ minutes of highway driving to and from work, and that means lots of heat in the engine bay. I'd love to see this engine last 100,000 miles, and I'm a big believer in preventitive maintenence...

Mulder

While it may turn out that the dealer didn't do anything wrong here, for the future you'd be better off doing this service yourself so you'll know exactly what's being done and what is going into the car.

GotBoost?

iTrader: (3)

meilers, There are a couple of things you can do to help out your situation that will greatly improve your operating temps....first.....add H2O to your radiator....I personally would drain it completely out, flush with fresh water, then refill it with about a 70/30 H2O/Antifreeze mix. The Water wetter will help a bit here as well. Next if you are really worried about it....you can get a cooler thermostat....say one that runs around 180-185 or so......also, remember one of the KEY ingredients to a cooler engine bay is air flow.....I know some of you will say that this is "rice" or whatever, but the vented Cusco hood.....would also help reduce engine bay temps by allowing the heat to rise out of the EB through the vents in the hood. Its a functional modification.

-Ted

meilers

Of course. The reason I paid the dealer to do the 30,000 mile service was to create a "paper trail" of service (as I plan to trade the car in to that dealer some day!) and to also make certain that nothing critical is wrong with the car before the 36,000 mile warranty expires. After I do my engine and exhaust mods, it certainly won't be visiting the dealer again!