New Car Time: STI, EVO, S4, ..... (a bit long)
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New Car Time: STI, EVO, S4, ..... (a bit long)
i've been a long time lurker on this site and it's coming to the time when a new car is most likely in my future. i currently have an Audi S4 (which i must say is the best car i've yet to own) and i'm trying to figure out what to go with next.
things in the equation:
AWD, 4 doors, 250hp+, manual trans, firm but not bone jarring ride, good mods, reliable, good build quality, nice interior.
the cars that i've been looking at are the usual suspects:
STI, EVO, S4, G35 AWD (if they bring a stick version)
i've not been able to test drive any of these cars, though i did get a ride in a STI and was quite impressed with how quick it felt. i've talked to people that have STI's or EVO's but no one who has actually driven both cars, so the perspectives i've gotten are definitely one sided.
my impression is that the STI and EVO are going to win the performance battle and the Audi will win the most well rounded award (though at ~$20K more). i'm not sure about the G35 AWD, but it will probably be good at both but not the winner in either category.
i'm leaning towards the STI because i think the performance is darn close to a draw and the build quality and interior of the STI seem better to me. i think the EVO engine has proved itself quite well though and there are a lot of mods for the car (including front ends to get rid of that terrible GrandAm looking face). and the boost creep and oil line issues i've read here have me a little concerned about the STI engine.
so can any of you guys shed some light on the STI vs EVO? or share why you went with one over the other?
thanks!
things in the equation:
AWD, 4 doors, 250hp+, manual trans, firm but not bone jarring ride, good mods, reliable, good build quality, nice interior.
the cars that i've been looking at are the usual suspects:
STI, EVO, S4, G35 AWD (if they bring a stick version)
i've not been able to test drive any of these cars, though i did get a ride in a STI and was quite impressed with how quick it felt. i've talked to people that have STI's or EVO's but no one who has actually driven both cars, so the perspectives i've gotten are definitely one sided.
my impression is that the STI and EVO are going to win the performance battle and the Audi will win the most well rounded award (though at ~$20K more). i'm not sure about the G35 AWD, but it will probably be good at both but not the winner in either category.
i'm leaning towards the STI because i think the performance is darn close to a draw and the build quality and interior of the STI seem better to me. i think the EVO engine has proved itself quite well though and there are a lot of mods for the car (including front ends to get rid of that terrible GrandAm looking face). and the boost creep and oil line issues i've read here have me a little concerned about the STI engine.
so can any of you guys shed some light on the STI vs EVO? or share why you went with one over the other?
thanks!
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decisions (long)
I have driven both the EVO and the STI. I bought the STI so my opinion might be a little biased but I can tell you what I have discovered. I have driven 2 different EVO's, the first one had over 1k miles on it, was broken in, and was driven in mid 70 degree temps, with the salesman and myself in the car. I was very impressed with the power and handling, but I only got to drive the car around the block. The second time driving an EVO, the car had under 200 miles, it was 105 degrees outside, It was the salesman, my wife, and I in the car, the A/C was on (not the whole time) and I believe that there may have been 87 octane in the tank. I got to drive the car for about 15 miles. With the A/C on the EVO is pig until it makes boost at 3k rpm. I turned the A/C off and it was better but still seemed weak. The reason I think that there was 87 octane in the car is because I could hear a LOT of boost blowing off, and it didn't feel as powerful (I'm sure the heat and load didn't help) as I thought it should. We live in a fair amount of heat here in AZ, so off boast power was a concern. I thought that the dash, and some of the plastic parts in the interior looked cheap too. Now for the plusses on the EVO. I love the seats, they are the better than the STI, you can get a moonroof, the carbon fiber wing is top notch, greater rear seat room, rear windshield wiper, probably more effective front mount intercooler, go-cart like steering and comes stock with a decent sounding stereo. The STI has a LOT more low end torque, quality looking dash, side airbags, active/adjustable center diff, Suretrac limited slip front diff, 6speed tranny (not entirely necessary) more HP and torque, powertrain warranty of 5 years/ 60k miles, no stereo (so your not paying for something you might replace) and last but not least, Subaru's reputation for durability and longevity.
Both are great cars each with there strength's and weaknesses'. The best thing to do is decide what you are going to do with the car, what features are important, how long you plan on keeping it, and who will give you the better deal. It took me 9 months to make a decision.
Hope this helps,
Dave
Both are great cars each with there strength's and weaknesses'. The best thing to do is decide what you are going to do with the car, what features are important, how long you plan on keeping it, and who will give you the better deal. It took me 9 months to make a decision.
Hope this helps,
Dave
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thanks Dave. i wish the dealers around here (SF / Bay Area) would let you test drive them because the things you mentioned about off boost power, low end torque, etc are the sort of things i'd like to check out first hand.
of the differences you mentioned, the sunroof would be nice, but not essential, and the lack of a stereo in the STI doesn't bother me too much. the B"L"OSE stereo in my S4 has been the only thing i don't like about the car, so choosing my own stereo might be better. i thought the seats in the EVO felt nicer too, but the rest of the interior seems pretty low budget.
well thanks for sharing your views!
chris
of the differences you mentioned, the sunroof would be nice, but not essential, and the lack of a stereo in the STI doesn't bother me too much. the B"L"OSE stereo in my S4 has been the only thing i don't like about the car, so choosing my own stereo might be better. i thought the seats in the EVO felt nicer too, but the rest of the interior seems pretty low budget.
well thanks for sharing your views!
chris
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Car Info: Subaru Impreza WRX 2002
I've driven all of the cars mentioned, though not with the intention of buying them -- they are owned by friends. The interior of the STI and EVO are going to be a GIANT step down from the Audi and the G35... those luxury cars are whisper-quiet inside and have well-appointed (as they say at the dealership) interiors with lots of little touches and smart ideas. The G35 is the closest to a German car that Japan has ever produced, IMO; it is nicer inside than my father's M3.
It pretty much breaks down like this: Audi, G35 = plush, smooth, fast in 5th, SPENDY...
STI, EVO = teeth-rattling seat-of-your-pants, fast in 1-3rd, cheaper, but you can tell clearly where they cut the corners...
Shaving the radio in the STI was just the beginning; slam a passenger door on the STI vs the Audi and you will see what I mean. The Subaru's doors slam like they were made of old tin cans. The EVO is the same way; outside of the engine and drivetrain (and seats) they didn't spend a dime. What you don't get in luxury with those two cars (and weight, a purist would sniff) you get back in g-forces. It really comes down to whether you want to drive a race car or a luxury car.
It pretty much breaks down like this: Audi, G35 = plush, smooth, fast in 5th, SPENDY...
STI, EVO = teeth-rattling seat-of-your-pants, fast in 1-3rd, cheaper, but you can tell clearly where they cut the corners...
Shaving the radio in the STI was just the beginning; slam a passenger door on the STI vs the Audi and you will see what I mean. The Subaru's doors slam like they were made of old tin cans. The EVO is the same way; outside of the engine and drivetrain (and seats) they didn't spend a dime. What you don't get in luxury with those two cars (and weight, a purist would sniff) you get back in g-forces. It really comes down to whether you want to drive a race car or a luxury car.
Last edited by meilers; Feb 4, 2004 at 02:48 PM.
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that's sort of been the hard part of all this for me. i've definitely gotten used to the Audi interior and sitting in the EVO was similar to what i go through when getting a rental car (with the exception of the cool seats and steering wheel). the STI seemed like a less drastic change, but still quite different.
i drive about 90 miles a day in commute traffic so i'm not sure how nice that would be to do in the STI or EVO. in the past few days though i've been thinking since i have 97K miles on my S4 and the resale price is gonna blow, maybe i should be thinking NEW 2nd CAR !!!
but then i'll need to get another garage spot too.....ugh.
not sure that i'm getting closer to a decision or not, but thanks for sharing your opinions.
i drive about 90 miles a day in commute traffic so i'm not sure how nice that would be to do in the STI or EVO. in the past few days though i've been thinking since i have 97K miles on my S4 and the resale price is gonna blow, maybe i should be thinking NEW 2nd CAR !!!
but then i'll need to get another garage spot too.....ugh.not sure that i'm getting closer to a decision or not, but thanks for sharing your opinions.
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Car Info: Subaru Impreza WRX 2002
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but if you are going to deal with stop-and-go traffic for 90 miles a day, you don't want the STI or EVO. They are sketchy and squirrely to drive anywhere but on a track or on the open freeway -- the EVO in particular requires a lot of "work" and driver attention to keep it under control when you are doing the 1-2-3 BRAKE 1-2-3 BRAKE 1-2 TURN style of driving. Even my tame 220HP WRX is a chore to drive in stoplight traffic -- I always have to be careful to not run right up the tailpipe of the car in front of me.
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Originally posted by meilers
Shaving the radio in the STI was just the beginning; slam a passenger door on the STI vs the Audi and you will see what I mean. The Subaru's doors slam like they were made of old tin cans. The EVO is the same way; outside of the engine and drivetrain (and seats) they didn't spend a dime. What you don't get in luxury with those two cars (and weight, a purist would sniff) you get back in g-forces. It really comes down to whether you want to drive a race car or a luxury car.
Shaving the radio in the STI was just the beginning; slam a passenger door on the STI vs the Audi and you will see what I mean. The Subaru's doors slam like they were made of old tin cans. The EVO is the same way; outside of the engine and drivetrain (and seats) they didn't spend a dime. What you don't get in luxury with those two cars (and weight, a purist would sniff) you get back in g-forces. It really comes down to whether you want to drive a race car or a luxury car.
when it comes to comfort most japanese cars will never come close when it comes to euro cars like bmw/merc/audi. . . but one thing you can almost guarantee- reliability. so it really depends on what kind of driving you will do. an sti or evo may not be your typical daily driver- - - unless you plan to corner hard and rip through gears
on your way to work
Last edited by gdogg; Feb 10, 2004 at 07:46 PM.
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Car Info: GTiVr6 - For Sale
Sorry to divert from your main topic here, but I've been debating the audi s4 (99-01) vs. WRX myself. You say your S4 has been the best car you've owned, so I was wondering what kind of, if any, major problems and issues you've had with the S4, since its one of the higher milage ones I've heard of? The common problems & cost of maintainace I've read about the S4's has me leaning towards a WRX, I love the stlye and comfort of the audi's but fear the maintainace costs down the road.
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i really haven't had any major problems. i had the ByPassValves replaced once (under warranty) and the MAF went bad on me (just got a letter from Audi saying i could get reimbursed for that work). my car has been stock for it's whole life and there was a lot of debate about whether the people with blown turbos and tranny issues were victims of modding.
there were some bone stock S4's that had the turbos blow and there have been guys running chips / exhausts / etc for 30-40k miles so it's hard to say for sure. maybe it comes down to luck and how well you maintain the car.
yea, it's definitely been better than my Lambretta, Vespa, VW Bus, and VW Jetta.
the one thing that does tick me off though is the crappy B"L"OSE speakers. i've had two sets of rear deck speakers die and since the BOSE amp has some non-standard ohm ratings you can't just throw in something else. i've thought about ripping the whole system out, but then i'd have to make a new faceplate type thing.
i've seen some nice looking S4's on eBay lately that don't even have that many miles on them. if any of them are in your area i'd definitely go check them out.
good luck in making your choice!
there were some bone stock S4's that had the turbos blow and there have been guys running chips / exhausts / etc for 30-40k miles so it's hard to say for sure. maybe it comes down to luck and how well you maintain the car.
yea, it's definitely been better than my Lambretta, Vespa, VW Bus, and VW Jetta.
the one thing that does tick me off though is the crappy B"L"OSE speakers. i've had two sets of rear deck speakers die and since the BOSE amp has some non-standard ohm ratings you can't just throw in something else. i've thought about ripping the whole system out, but then i'd have to make a new faceplate type thing.i've seen some nice looking S4's on eBay lately that don't even have that many miles on them. if any of them are in your area i'd definitely go check them out.
good luck in making your choice!
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If you really like the Audi quality, then you could also go for an A4 1.8T and do all kinds of upgrades - seats, exhausts, brakes, etc. APR should have a stage 3 kit pretty soon. That should get you the performance you want and still be way less than the S4.
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Car Info: 2004 Subaru WRX STi World Rally Blue with Silver BBS wheels WICKED!!
80-90 miles/day commute. You better have a strong back. I love my STi, but having just completed a 750 mile weekend in New England, I can honestly tell you it was lots of fun but real tough on the body. On the other hand, I feel quite confident in saying an STi would hand an S4 its *** all things being equal, like driver etc. The STi is a minimal compromises steet legal race car!!! Build quality is far better than Mitsubishi (sorry guys, I had 2 Monteros, and the newer 1 was much cheaper than the older 1, the newest model "looks nice", but is badly outdated esp in the engine catagory, cuse my aside). I actually feel that Subarus are now one of the best built Japanese cars, and they just last. Even up north in Maine, people routinely have 200-300K on them with just routine services. This is in a world covered by salt and snow 7-8 months/yr with routine below zero temps.
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Originally posted by ddsski
80-90 miles/day commute. You better have a strong back....<snip> I actually feel that Subarus are now one of the best built Japanese cars, and they just last.
80-90 miles/day commute. You better have a strong back....<snip> I actually feel that Subarus are now one of the best built Japanese cars, and they just last.
about the build quality, i think you're right about Subaru being better than Mitsu. i am a bit concerned by the engine problems i've read about on here and on NASIOC though. i can't really tell if the people brought these engine problems on (ie. mods) or if Subaru has some issues they need to sort out. ???
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Why not just get a WRX and keep your S4 as well. $24K for a new WRX (less for a good used one) and $2K in mods (reflash, sport springs & struts, rear swaybar, endlinks, SS brakelines) will give you a 250 HP, AWD, 5MT, reliable and fun car to drive. You said so yourself that trading in or even selling your S4 will yield a low monetary benefit to yourself. Just get the extra parking space and give a lightly modded WRX a good new home. With the car you'll get new friends in this forum that will help you enjoy the car even more. Just my $.02 
.
-Soren
PS: I had an Audi 1.8T Quattro that was lightly modified (APR chip and sport suspension). In hindsight, I should have kept that car even w/ all the little gremlins all German car has. There are sometimes that I (actually, more my wife) brings up how we miss xenon lights and heated seats.
.-Soren
PS: I had an Audi 1.8T Quattro that was lightly modified (APR chip and sport suspension). In hindsight, I should have kept that car even w/ all the little gremlins all German car has. There are sometimes that I (actually, more my wife) brings up how we miss xenon lights and heated seats.
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Since when is audi reliable??? Maybe you didnt rack up many miles on it.
This is just my opinion...
I am against AUDI because with my past experience they are sh*t on wheels.(dont belive me do some researching)
I never trusted Mitsu, they are always knows to fall apart.
So I would Jump into a WRX-STI.
Then again if you are looking for luxury then you should look alsewhere.
Good luck.
This is just my opinion...
I am against AUDI because with my past experience they are sh*t on wheels.(dont belive me do some researching)
I never trusted Mitsu, they are always knows to fall apart.
So I would Jump into a WRX-STI.
Then again if you are looking for luxury then you should look alsewhere.
Good luck.