hello again. well i am still waiting for my rex to come in so i have nothing to do but try to plan out the stereo. i will be using some of the components from my current setup but will be replacing most of it. my current setup in my accord. (is it legal to mention honda in a post?)

pioneer avic n1
12disc changer
xm tuner
mb quart premium pce 216 6.5s
boston acoustic 6x9's
jl audio 10w7 in jl oem enclosure
jl 500/1
jl 300/4

my plans for the rex (specifically the 06 wrx limited in rally blue i am still waiting for )
elipse 5435 (cant deal with the fact that the 5495 does not have satellite radio) i am looking for a clean flush mount look and better sound quality than the pioneer. the 5v signal from the eclipse should be an improvement right? anyone listen to both?
8 disc changer is that the biggest one they make?
sirius tuner

i will be keeping the sub and enclosure anyone know if it will fit in the trunk? the amps i will keep, i plan on getting focal components up front and was going to get something fairly inexspensive for the rear but my installer recommended using only front speakers and wiring the 300/4 to send all the power to the front. do any of you run only fronts? my music tastes are very broad but when it comes to my system i look for sound quality not spl. im not sure which focals i am going to get yet. the prices he quoted me were very high. around 950 for the k2p's or maybe that was for the utopias. i dont recall exactly but they are a lot. any feedback would be appreciated. if anyone has a good online site for getting focal speakers cheap i would appreciate it. also if anyone has any interest in buying either pairs of speakers i have let me know. i already have a buyer for the avic n1.

 

My current setup in my Toyota is MB Quart 6.5 components in the doors with a single 10 JL Stealthbox and I think that it sounds great. Many of the high-end stereo guys do it this way and say that it provides better imaging, I don't think you are going to get very good imaging from two speakers facing each other at your shins but it sounds good anyway. Rear speakers are primarily for fill for the rear passengers. In some cars you can only put 5.25's in the front and larger speakers in the rear, in those cases you get some good mid-bass from the rears but, for our cars, the bigger speakers are in the front so it is a good setup to ignore the rear doors unless you have a lot of back seat passengers that you want to impress. I am planning to put Boston component 6.5's in the doors and a single 10 in the trunk. I will use a 300/4 to drive the components with the front channels and the sub with the rear channels bridged. This is the same amp as I have in my toyo and it has plenty of power for me. I can't imagine the need to bridge the 300/4 for 150 watts into each 6.5! But that is just me. If it was me, I would use the 300/4 only with 75 watts to each door and 150 to the sub (since that is what I am doing) but if I could afford yet another slash amp (500/1) and wanted the extra juice to the sub, I would go ahead and spring for a set of coaxial 5.25's for the back and run those from the rear of the 300/4 and keep them faded down a little unless someone was in the back.

 

I have a pair of MB Quart 6.5s in the front and a single RF Power 12" in the trunk. I ran without speakers in the rear doors for a few months, then went ahead and got some MB Quarts because the sound is much fuller vs. front doors only.

Regarding imaging: It's not great that the 6.5s are down at your shins, but most of the imaging is done with the tweeters mounted further up and pointed at your ears. Bass is non-directional, but you still lose some midrange imaging.

 

thanks for the replies. im not sure what i am going to do yet. it depends on which series of focal front speakers i get and how much they lighten my pockets. im not concerned how it sounds in the back seat, last time i checked the steering wheel was in the front. thats where i want the best sound. i liked the idea of bridging the 300/4 to the fronts only because some of the focals have high power demands.

 

Assuming that you do not already own the amps, you might consider going with a 300/2 if that is the setup that you want. A dedicated 150 x 2 should provide better sound quality than a bridged amp for your front speakers. By bridging the 4 channel amp you are showing the amp a 2 ohm load even though your speakers are 4 ohm. Although the amp can handle the load, it is my understanding that an unbridged 150 watt amp would sound a little cleaner which is much more important with your full range fronts than for a sub. For example, if you look at the specs on the amp the damping factor for the 300/2 is 200 into 4 ohms while the 300/4 bridged is 100, presumably other specs would deteriorate slightly as well. Either way, if it doesn't sound good it won't be for lack of power (i.e. dynamic range) and the 'slash' series amps sound great, that is why I am getting ready to buy another. Your setup should end up sounding a little better than mine; by virtue of having twice as much power you won't be pushing the amps as hard at the same listening level.

 

i didnt realize that by bridging the amp it could effect the sound quality. that is something to consider. i do already own the amps so getting the 300/2 is not really an option im already taking a hit by trading up to the eclipse from the pioneer avic cant afford to change the amp setup too. they are definitely the best amps i have ever owned. you can beat the crap out of them for hours and they never overheat. they are on the shelf at my installers shop resting until the suby gets here. man i wish that boat would hurry the f**k up and get here with my car already. rockin stock sucks, but it makes you appreciate your system that much more when you go without it for a month. i am still not sure which focals to get my biggest concern is the fitment. from reading past discussions on this issue i gather that a mounting depth of about 2.5" with custom made adapters is doable but pretty much the limit. i am worried about the speakers hitting the door panels and rattles at high levels.

 

At least if you stick with the 300/4 you have the option later of breaking it down to 75 x 4 if you decide you want rear door speakers. I upgraded from the e4300 to the 300/4 because I was overheating the e but I could really hear the difference, the sound seemed much tighter with the slash. If you are going to do the install yourself (and don't feel like making spacers) check out iaperformance.com, they have custom drilled spacers that come with new door skin clips which actually space the door skin out slightly to clear the cone. The 6.5" 'thick' spacer claims a maximum of 2.88" with some light grinding. Focal 165a and 165v2's are listed as working in the fitment guide. The instructions are pretty clear and they show various levels of installation depth, i.e. the thick spacer will work up to a certain depth and to get a little more you can put some washers behind the window track and to get maximum depth there is a bolt on the window slide that can be ground down. I haven't gotten to the installation yet (no time) so I can't tell you how accurate it is. Basically $30 for a pair of wooden spacers (nicely made) that you could make yourself and a couple of plastic clips that you probably couldn't. Good Luck. I am already driving my car for several months now on the stock system...it's not good. I've got to find some time to tear my whole interior out and start building a sub-box and amp rack...good times, good times.

 

do a search for some of my posts in this forum.

i've always recommend going with a stereo up front, nothing in the rear doors and getting a sub to provide the low end.

now the trick is to get the biggest and baddest front speakers. powered by an equally kick *** amp.

then crossover with a rather low point, say 90-120Hz so the imaging isnt dragged by the sub towards the rear.

 

I have almost the exact same setup in my 05 WRX wagon.
Here it is.
Eclipse AVN5435
8 disk changer
Sirius tuner
mb quart premium pce 216 6.5s
mb quart premium rce 213 6.5s
jl audio 10w7 in jl oem enclosure (prowedge)
jl 500/1
jl 300/4

The eclipse unit is awesome!! I just got it in on Friday to replace an older eclpse cd-only unit with 8v pre. The sound quality is very very good, and the only difference I've noticed is that I have to turn it up a bit more to get the same volume as before. One HUGE plus over the AVIC (besides sound quality) is that the parking brake cutoff can be easily bypassed by grounding the parking brake wire (much simpler than the AVIC).

The only downside is that the sound quality of the Sirius tuner is absolute crap. It sounds like a badly compressed mp3. It's made worse by the 800 watt amplification. Maybe I'm just too picky, but I'm really disappointed. How does the XM sound in your car?

As for the speakers. I find that the Quarts are too bright. They sound really good in the store, but not quite right in the car. You can adjust the crossovers to ease it a bit, but you're paying for the brightness when you buy Quarts, so adjusting it defeats the purpose.

I haven't listened to the Focals, but $950 seems like a ****load for fronts...Most of your sound quality comes from tuning and imaging. I've actually found that the JL XR and ZR separates sound best in cars...they seem to produce a bit more midbass and give a fuller sound. The XR's can be had for $300 or so, and the zr's are around $800. Give them a listen before you buy new speakers.

Are you in the Bay Area? If so, what shop are you going with?

 

i only have a front sound stage and it sounds fine. the only thing that you really loose by droping the rear speakrs is the small amount of bass that the rear speakers were providing. you'll make up for that with the sub in the trunk.

Alpine 9853
MB Quart 218.61 Q series 6.5" components
Alpine 12" Type R Sub
Alpine V 12 345 front amp
Alpine V 12 605 sub amp
Fiberglass stealth enclosure
Fiberglass door panels

 

thanks for the reply. i live in new jersey and my install shop is called imagine audio. i have been happy with their work and level of service. their prices are not the cheapest but i dont mind paying a little more to get good service and quality work. i stopped by last week after i picked up the suby and their guys looked over the car. these are my plans:

eclipse avn 5435
8 disc changer
sirius unit ( i am suprised to hear you say the sound quality is not good. why do you think that is? the xm sounded good in my honda but not as good as a cd did.. i would rather get the 5495 with the built in hard drive but i want satellite radio)
jl w7 in oem box
jl 500/1
jl 300/4

as far as the speakers my installer said he thinks i would be better off with focal v slims in the front doors about $450. he is planning on mounting the tweeters in the a pillars. he thinks i will be happy with the sound and said if i am not he will take them out for me for free and upgrade them to a higher end focal series but i will probably have to pay extra labor to make them fit the doors.. we are also planning to put a set of focal 6.5 coaxials custom mounted in the rear deck to add fill and surround for movies. and with the avn's listening position selector i should be able to get the sound i am looking for no matter what i am listening too. i have heard a lot of people compliment the jl audio component speakers but have heard more people rave about focals..

this system will be a little bit more show than my last setup. i showed my installer the pics from an iclub members car who posted pics a few days ago. i am going to do something similar to his design where when you fold down the trunk pass through the amps will be mounted behind the sub on a custom built rack with some lighting. also going to do some under dash accent lighting. i am thinking of mounting the changer under the passenger seat. where do you have yours? where did you mount the sirius antenna and gps antenna? it was mounted on my dash in my honda. one on each side. he said i might have problems if i mount it on the back deck because the back window is tinted. i definitely dont want them on the roof but dont want to put them on the back deck if i will have reception problems. all and all i think it will be a nice setup. i should have it done in a few weeks. i sold the avic n1 and changer/xm module to a friend for a 1000 bucks and i already have the amps and subs and wires from my old system but its still going to cost me about 3grand to finish it up. ill let you know how it sounds and post some pics when its done.

 

I'm disappointed thus far with the sirius unit. Trolling the web, I've discovered that the SQ is not as good as XM, but almost exactly the same. Honestly, it doesn't even sound as good as some local analog FM stations. The variety of programming is awesome, but the sound just doesn't have the depth and stereo separation of a cd or FM. I actually sent Sirius an email complaining about it. I've heard that they used to have worse SQ, but it's a bit better now...can't imagine what it sounded like before

All that being said, if you like the variety of programming and aren't as concerned with the SQ, you won't be disappointed.

As far as the rear speakers, if you're looking for SQ, it's not necessary to mount them in the rear deck. For movies, you don't really want to be hearing the rear speakers that much anyway...if it's a 5.1 movie, only 10-20% of the sound is supposed to come from the surround (rear) speakers. For music, the rears are just fill, so it doesn't really matter where they are. Some SQ competitors forego the rear speakers altogether because they mess up the front soundstage. Either way, I wouldn't spend too much money on the rears, and I'd stick with the rear door locations. Spend the extra money to have the front soundstage tweaked or make kickpanels. Another thing to consider, especially if you're mounting in the rear deck, is that you may overmodulate your rears with the sub if they're sharing the same airspace. In other words, the vibration of the sub in the trunk would transfer to the deck mounted speakers, jacking up the sound quality and eventually damaging the rear speakers. If you do decide to do this, make sure you have the installer build some sound insolation, usually foam or mdf or something. Again, this would cost more money and wouldn't really improve the overall sound of the car, another reason to stick with the stock location for the rears. If this is going to be a show car, then you might have a different opinion about the rears.

I would focus on speaker mounting location and tuning to get the right sound. Don't rely too much on the positioning and eq on the eclipse, because it will not sound as good as proper positioning and correct amp tuning.

I've heard focals are bright, but I don't really know for sure. MB Quarts are too bright for me, so I'm going to replace them at some point...maybe with Focals if they sound good.

What post are you talking about with the custom rack, etc?

My changer is mounted in the glovebox, a most excellent location for easy cd switching, etc. It fits just right, and never skips. Plus you don't have to worry about kicking it or getting it wet.

My sirius antenna is mounted on the roof. It's just a magnetic antenna, so you can move it if you like. I have a wagon though. The best reception is there, so I'd recommend that. It's not really noticeable, but that's up to you. The gps is mounted on the passenger side of the dash under the piller, and it hardly noticeable at all.

Have you considered kick-panels? It's not really good to have the tweeters mounted so far away from the mids, it separates the sound. I've seen an install on the a-pillar where the tweets were aimed at the windshield, and the guy said they sounded good. I know the shop that did it, and they seem to do good work, so you might be able to get it to work.

All this is just to say, if you're going to spend all that money on an install, it should be the best sounding system possible. The equipment is not as important as proper tuning and speaker placement. Kick panels are supposed to be the best way to go, and should only run about $300 for some custom panels. I've heard that quarts and other bright speakers sound best in this configuration. I've seen all sorts of kicks, and I think it's possible to do them without giving up too much legroom.

Another thing you might want to consider is sound dampening. Subaru's are great cars, but they are not made for bumping systems or luxury driving. They have hardly any sound dampening material. Spending a bit of money on dynamat in the doors and trunk will make a HUGE difference...you might even want to do it yourself to save on labor.

 

thanks again man. the post i was referring to was a "quick install and some pics"... i am not going to do exactly the same just something similar, i like the look of his design. could you post a pic of your changer mounted in the glove?? and maybe of the sirius antenna on the roof if you have one? i am going to heed your advice and not put the speakers in the rear deck, i was over at imagine audio today getting tint done and we discussed this.. i am going to put something in the rear doors for fill. i am not too crazy about kick panels. i dont want to lose any legroom and i like to put my foot on the little heel piece down there. my installer reassured me today that we will install everything tune it up and listen to it and if im not 100% pleased with the sound we will pursue other options for the front stage. as far as dynamat, if you had to do only one would you do the trunk or the doors??

 

Yeah, I'm with you on the kicks, I don't want any legroom lost either. I don't currently have them on my car, but I am annoyed by the separation I hear between highs and mids. What I think I'm going to do is get 3 way speakers and put the 6.5's in the door, and make small kicks with 4" and the tweets. There is definately enough room for that, because 4" is very small. Either that, or somehow mount the tweets lower in the door.

I'll try to post some pics later this week. It's dark by the time I get home nowadays, so the pics won't come out too good. I'm going to do some work on the car this weekend, so I'll take them then. The cd changer in the glove is definately the way to go though....and the eclipse unit is just small enough to fit.

After your installer does his work, take a couple of days listening before you assure him that you're satisfied.

Hmm, doors or trunk...why not do both? If you had a wagon, I'd say don't worry about the trunk, but you MUST do it in the sedan, especially with a W7 or else it will rattle like crazy. Dynamat is very expensive though, so I'd recommend going with a generic brand.

http://www.b-quiet.com/

I used this stuff around the whole car (doors, trunk, floor, pillars, etc) and it made a huge difference, especially in the doors. They sound like mercedes doors now and the bass is clean. Personally I'd recommend doing it yourself if you have a weekend free. It takes a while, but it's totally worth it and it will save you a lot of money in labor over having the shop do it. Another thing I'd recommend is getting some spray foam from your local hardware store and spraying it around the clips for the doors, as they will start to rattle eventually as well. If you're going to do this, let me know and I'll give you some tips....I'm sure the shop you're working with has some as well.