The Ultimate Bulb Lighting Thread: All You Ever Need to Know About Bulbs
06-25-2006, 09:16 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by gijow
Peaty, did you use the H7 bulbs in your impreza? How are they working out? I am replacing my low and high beams and I want the brightest bulb that I can get without any serious fabrication.
06-25-2006, 10:24 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by Mulder
According to your profile you have an 05 RS. Your low beams are H1, not H7.
06-25-2006, 11:29 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by pleiad7
His profile says 04 Forester XT & 06 B9 Tribeca... not sure where you're seeing the 05 RS reference...
06-25-2006, 02:39 PM
#20
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haha, thanks guys. Sorry about the confusion. I just assumed you had an impreza, sorry I didn't check the profile. I have an 05 RS so I need the H1's. For my lows which brand, phillips, osram, narva? I have heard a lot about the osram bulbs, should I stick with those?
07-23-2006, 11:50 AM
#22
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I haven't been on here in a while, but this forum was posted over onto the SubaruForester.com forum, and I took a look. Thank you Drew (Yesitisdrew5310) for a good write-up on automotive lighting.
About not having the technology to make HID's pure white, that’s not quite correct. HID's that we see in cars are modified versions of what’s called a Metal Halide Arc Discharge Lamp. (or just Metal Halide). They actually include very very little of the Xenon gas, and it's only purpose there is to create usable light within seconds after the arc is struck, before the metal salts have vaporized. Once the system heats up it's running just like a normal Metal Halide, and the Xenon is negated.
(ignoring plain old fluorescent lights) There are three main types of Arc Discharge Lamps that you'll see, and two of the three are more than capable of creating pure white light. Sodium Vapor (which have a yellow tint to them), Mercury Vapor, and Metal Halide. Each has their pluses and Minuses, but the two that are used when white light is needed are Mercury Vapor, and Metal Halide (Sodium Vapor is the most efficient of the bunch at about 80%, which is why they are often used in street lights, Metal Halide is about 50% efficient, and Mercury Vapor is about 20% efficient, and standard halogen and incandescent lamps are between 1% and 10% efficient)
Mercury Vapor lamps have a more blue/green tint to them than metal halide, and were the first type of Arc lamp (invented back in 1901, high pressure that we see today was invented in 1934). Very few places still use them because of the more efficient, and whiter Metal Halide lamp, or the very efficient Sodium Vapor.
Metal Halide are the newest incarnation of these arc lamps (Created by GE in 1962). They're a mercury vapor with iodine salts of other metals added, and still have a very slight blue bias, but are what you will find in every major stadium, large arena, large grocery store, warehouse, etc... It generates a very white light, and I've never heard people complaining how blue the football field looked.
These are also what we work with at work (concert/theatre/corporate lighting). They're used in every decent moving light around. (except we work with 500, and 1000 watt versions instead of 35 watt) and the light from those is white white white, and much care is taken to create as close to a pure white light as possible so that the light can be colored properly and accurately.
IMO the only reasons car companies are using the very blue or violet tinted lamps are for the cool effect, and so you'll know that "hey, that person has those HID things." and because they look expensive. The technology is not new, it's just a modification of a very rock solid technology get around the long warm-up times of traditional arc lamps. Also, price may be a factor in it all. Curent automotive HID lamps are very cheap for their size compared to the ones we use. At $300+ per lamp, it might be a bit to expensive still for the automotive industry to pick up just to get closer to a true white light.
And thank you Daniel for running a great website that helps to debunk a lot of automotive lighting myths. It's a great resource to the communities.
EDIT: And on a road with rain, any light will be harder to see. The water will act as a mirror, and the light will reflect with the same angle that it came in at, and send it to somewhere where it's totally useless.
Originally Posted by NW OBS
PS: Blue lighting is NOT cool. It is the hardest color for the human eye to sort through and deliver info to the brain. The ONLY reason HID's are blue (cool?) is they still don't have the technology to turn out enough light in a warmer color (or a true white). Don't believe me? Watch your HID lights disappear on a wet road in the rain ~ your eyes can't find the light. That means in Oregon ~ I can't find the road!
(ignoring plain old fluorescent lights) There are three main types of Arc Discharge Lamps that you'll see, and two of the three are more than capable of creating pure white light. Sodium Vapor (which have a yellow tint to them), Mercury Vapor, and Metal Halide. Each has their pluses and Minuses, but the two that are used when white light is needed are Mercury Vapor, and Metal Halide (Sodium Vapor is the most efficient of the bunch at about 80%, which is why they are often used in street lights, Metal Halide is about 50% efficient, and Mercury Vapor is about 20% efficient, and standard halogen and incandescent lamps are between 1% and 10% efficient)
Mercury Vapor lamps have a more blue/green tint to them than metal halide, and were the first type of Arc lamp (invented back in 1901, high pressure that we see today was invented in 1934). Very few places still use them because of the more efficient, and whiter Metal Halide lamp, or the very efficient Sodium Vapor.
Metal Halide are the newest incarnation of these arc lamps (Created by GE in 1962). They're a mercury vapor with iodine salts of other metals added, and still have a very slight blue bias, but are what you will find in every major stadium, large arena, large grocery store, warehouse, etc... It generates a very white light, and I've never heard people complaining how blue the football field looked.
These are also what we work with at work (concert/theatre/corporate lighting). They're used in every decent moving light around. (except we work with 500, and 1000 watt versions instead of 35 watt) and the light from those is white white white, and much care is taken to create as close to a pure white light as possible so that the light can be colored properly and accurately.
IMO the only reasons car companies are using the very blue or violet tinted lamps are for the cool effect, and so you'll know that "hey, that person has those HID things." and because they look expensive. The technology is not new, it's just a modification of a very rock solid technology get around the long warm-up times of traditional arc lamps. Also, price may be a factor in it all. Curent automotive HID lamps are very cheap for their size compared to the ones we use. At $300+ per lamp, it might be a bit to expensive still for the automotive industry to pick up just to get closer to a true white light.
And thank you Daniel for running a great website that helps to debunk a lot of automotive lighting myths. It's a great resource to the communities.
EDIT: And on a road with rain, any light will be harder to see. The water will act as a mirror, and the light will reflect with the same angle that it came in at, and send it to somewhere where it's totally useless.
Last edited by techy101; 07-23-2006 at 12:46 PM.
07-23-2006, 12:20 PM
#23
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Techy101 ~ Good education, lot's of work.
I agree with the fact that Daniel has a great site and is a good source for bulbs and an education. The point of the above post however, was aimed at the kids who run out and buy 'Blue' bulbs to be cool.
That is the hardest light for your eyes to focus on (hence the red lights in fighter jets)... in my book that makes them HIGHLY undesireable!
I agree with the fact that Daniel has a great site and is a good source for bulbs and an education. The point of the above post however, was aimed at the kids who run out and buy 'Blue' bulbs to be cool.
That is the hardest light for your eyes to focus on (hence the red lights in fighter jets)... in my book that makes them HIGHLY undesireable!
07-23-2006, 12:44 PM
#24
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(addition to my post above)
It should also be noted that a blue hue to an arc lamp isn't a horrible thing. White light (in additive color theory) is comprised of equal part of every frequency. Even with a bit of a blueish hue, many arc lamps are still outputing very white light (still outputting all of the other frequencies in the spectrum), just with a slight overabundance of the bluer frequencies. This is quite different than real blue light that's lacking the rest of the spectrum.
I will add a +1 to the blue lamps. Trash. We color correct halogen lamps with whats called a CTB filter (Correct to blue) at work all the time so that the light from them appears the same color temp as the Metal Halide lamps. (otherwise when you white balance the cameras you've got to choose, and then either all the halogens appear yellow, or all the MH's appear blue regardless of coloration). But when we do this, there's an extremely significant drop in the acutal light output. Usually in the area of 15-30% range, and sometimes more, depending on the level of correction.
It should also be noted that a blue hue to an arc lamp isn't a horrible thing. White light (in additive color theory) is comprised of equal part of every frequency. Even with a bit of a blueish hue, many arc lamps are still outputing very white light (still outputting all of the other frequencies in the spectrum), just with a slight overabundance of the bluer frequencies. This is quite different than real blue light that's lacking the rest of the spectrum.
I will add a +1 to the blue lamps. Trash. We color correct halogen lamps with whats called a CTB filter (Correct to blue) at work all the time so that the light from them appears the same color temp as the Metal Halide lamps. (otherwise when you white balance the cameras you've got to choose, and then either all the halogens appear yellow, or all the MH's appear blue regardless of coloration). But when we do this, there's an extremely significant drop in the acutal light output. Usually in the area of 15-30% range, and sometimes more, depending on the level of correction.
08-14-2012, 10:43 AM
#25
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Thanks for the info Yesitsdrew5310
Bumping this thread because I have a low beam and a fog out and I am looking to upgrade my bulbs. It seems there is soooooooo much BS about bulbs out there. I have found it hard to find good info.
Wondering if the info in the op is still relevant as it is 2012 now.
Spent all morning reading on Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply and dude seems like he actually cares about getting people good lighting products and not just selling some carp.
Bumping this thread because I have a low beam and a fog out and I am looking to upgrade my bulbs. It seems there is soooooooo much BS about bulbs out there. I have found it hard to find good info.
Wondering if the info in the op is still relevant as it is 2012 now.
Spent all morning reading on Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply and dude seems like he actually cares about getting people good lighting products and not just selling some carp.
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