Starter Problem
12-17-2004, 04:48 PM
#1
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Starter Problem
I posted a couple of weeks ago about how my car won't start, & how a few of you guys helped my wife out with it. I've been out to sea the entire time since then, and just got back today. After troubleshooting a little, here's what I've found.
Turn the key, dash lights come on, power to accessories, fuel pump cycles, can't turn the starter over.
Checked fuses....everything good to go there.
To eliminate the clutch switch, I made a jumper for the wiring harness & tricked the switch into thinking the clutch was disengaged. Starter still won't turn over.
Uninstalled turbo timer, and returned my factory alarm back to it's original configuration. To elaborate, I'd had the TT installed for around a year. I've always been able to use my factory alarm, and never had any problems until now. I was hoping for a shorted wire or something in the TT harnesses. Nothing. Starter still won't turn over.
After all this, I took my intercooler off to look at the starter. I can see the wiring that goes from the solenoid to the battery...looks good. The starter was tested by Checker's when Mario took it in a few weeks ago.
Dangling kind of above & behind the starter is 1 yellow wire with a small connector on the end. I can't find where this plugs in. Does it plug into the back of the starter somewhere? I've searched online for a diagram, and felt around the starter for around an hour with no luck. The wire runs to the main wiring harness that goes through the firewall. I didn't trace it anywhere inside the cabin.
If it helps any, I notice a significant load on my electrical system when I try to start the car, even though the starter isn't cycling. Could this be a sign of a short somewhere in the wiring that leads to / from the starter?
Is there a relay for the starter that I haven't found yet? I looked for one, but didn't find anything. I've listened to the car as my wife attempted to start it, and there wasn't any sort of "clicking" noise that is typical of a faulty relay.
That's all for now. I'd really appreciate some help on this. Driving the wife's neon just isn't fun anymore.
Turn the key, dash lights come on, power to accessories, fuel pump cycles, can't turn the starter over.
Checked fuses....everything good to go there.
To eliminate the clutch switch, I made a jumper for the wiring harness & tricked the switch into thinking the clutch was disengaged. Starter still won't turn over.
Uninstalled turbo timer, and returned my factory alarm back to it's original configuration. To elaborate, I'd had the TT installed for around a year. I've always been able to use my factory alarm, and never had any problems until now. I was hoping for a shorted wire or something in the TT harnesses. Nothing. Starter still won't turn over.
After all this, I took my intercooler off to look at the starter. I can see the wiring that goes from the solenoid to the battery...looks good. The starter was tested by Checker's when Mario took it in a few weeks ago.
Dangling kind of above & behind the starter is 1 yellow wire with a small connector on the end. I can't find where this plugs in. Does it plug into the back of the starter somewhere? I've searched online for a diagram, and felt around the starter for around an hour with no luck. The wire runs to the main wiring harness that goes through the firewall. I didn't trace it anywhere inside the cabin.
If it helps any, I notice a significant load on my electrical system when I try to start the car, even though the starter isn't cycling. Could this be a sign of a short somewhere in the wiring that leads to / from the starter?
Is there a relay for the starter that I haven't found yet? I looked for one, but didn't find anything. I've listened to the car as my wife attempted to start it, and there wasn't any sort of "clicking" noise that is typical of a faulty relay.
That's all for now. I'd really appreciate some help on this. Driving the wife's neon just isn't fun anymore.
12-17-2004, 05:15 PM
#2
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Perhaps it's the ignition switch...I just had a problem related to that.
My problem was that the headlights and gauges weren't getting the signal from the switch to turn on. The electrical guy found that the ignition switch connection was loose. So thus, he tightened it and it worked for one day...the next day it came back and he had to solder it on to the lead (no replacement ignition switch close to town because Schuman is gone and I NEEDED my car that day).
Basically, the only way that he was able to diagnose the problem was by actually taking a look at the switch because all the usual metered tests were showing that all systems were functional. Try taking a look at the switch or call Jarrett at Wayne's Auto Electric...591-8818.
My problem was that the headlights and gauges weren't getting the signal from the switch to turn on. The electrical guy found that the ignition switch connection was loose. So thus, he tightened it and it worked for one day...the next day it came back and he had to solder it on to the lead (no replacement ignition switch close to town because Schuman is gone and I NEEDED my car that day).
Basically, the only way that he was able to diagnose the problem was by actually taking a look at the switch because all the usual metered tests were showing that all systems were functional. Try taking a look at the switch or call Jarrett at Wayne's Auto Electric...591-8818.
12-17-2004, 11:01 PM
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Thanks, I'll definitely check the switch. What's really confusing me with this, is at the time of the problem the car was running and it just died. From then on, the starter hasn't worked.
12-17-2004, 11:30 PM
#4
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When you say there's a significant load on the electrical system - what kind of amperage are we talking about?
It sounds like current is flowing to the motor, it's trying to do it's job but the engine doesn't want to turn over (if you're getting HUNDREDS of amps of load from the battery)...
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It sounds like current is flowing to the motor, it's trying to do it's job but the engine doesn't want to turn over (if you're getting HUNDREDS of amps of load from the battery)...
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12-17-2004, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by funkdrmr
Thanks, I'll definitely check the switch. What's really confusing me with this, is at the time of the problem the car was running and it just died. From then on, the starter hasn't worked.
12-18-2004, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by IS2Scooby
When you say there's a significant load on the electrical system - what kind of amperage are we talking about?
It sounds like current is flowing to the motor, it's trying to do it's job but the engine doesn't want to turn over (if you're getting HUNDREDS of amps of load from the battery)...
It sounds like current is flowing to the motor, it's trying to do it's job but the engine doesn't want to turn over (if you're getting HUNDREDS of amps of load from the battery)...
If the problem doesn't turn out to be in my ignition switch, I need to find out what's between the battery and the starter (relay?). Any ideas where to start looking? I-club & nasioc don't have anything good for me when I search for starter or solenoid...mostly alarm posts.
12-18-2004, 03:46 AM
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Are you sure there's not a PHYSICAL reason why the starter can't turn the motor over even if it's getting juice (unlikely, but a possibility)?
Throw the whole machine on a battery/starter load/tester and see how many amps you're pulling through the battery cables to see what's going on.
It's probably NOT an electrical problem if you've got 500amps going through the cables but things still aren't moving.
Have you tried to replace with a known good starter (I know you tested the starter, but still helps to swap out with an a-ok unit)?
Quick question: When you say that the starter "won't turn over", does it go through it's first step and use the solenoid to kick the pinion gear out? Do you hear that "click" when you turn the key or is it quiet like a morgue? (You mentioned the fact that you DIDN'T hear the fluttering of a bad relay, but do you hear the solenoid kickin' in when you spin the ignition cylinder?)
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Throw the whole machine on a battery/starter load/tester and see how many amps you're pulling through the battery cables to see what's going on.
It's probably NOT an electrical problem if you've got 500amps going through the cables but things still aren't moving.
Have you tried to replace with a known good starter (I know you tested the starter, but still helps to swap out with an a-ok unit)?
Quick question: When you say that the starter "won't turn over", does it go through it's first step and use the solenoid to kick the pinion gear out? Do you hear that "click" when you turn the key or is it quiet like a morgue? (You mentioned the fact that you DIDN'T hear the fluttering of a bad relay, but do you hear the solenoid kickin' in when you spin the ignition cylinder?)
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12-19-2004, 05:08 PM
#8
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Okay....finally, an update but it isn't good. Mario & I were talking last night, and the emergency brake ground switch came to mind. I checked it out today, and the brake indicates "BRAKE" on the dash when it's up. When you put the brake down, the indication doesn't go away. I pushed the switch manually, and the only indication I got was that the brake light dimmed a little bit. It didn't go completely off.
I'm not sure where that pink wire goes, but I have a feeling it might be the answer. It's hard to say, though.
I'm not sure where that pink wire goes, but I have a feeling it might be the answer. It's hard to say, though.
12-20-2004, 01:31 PM
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Well, I'm not 100% sure, mostly because I wasn't here when the troubleshooting started. I honestly think it was just a bad battery.
Because all of the lights & accessories were still working, it seemed the battery was still good at first. From there, the troubleshooting went to the starter. It was taken out & tested, and tested out just fine. To make sure, my wife put a new battery in, and it still didn't work. I think the reason the new battery didn't work, is because when the starter was reinstalled, the yellow wire (signal from relay) wasn't plugged back in. Once I plugged that wire in yesterday & jumped the car, it turned over on the first time.
To back up my theory on the bad battery, I only need one question answered. When the car is at idle, is the alternator still charging the electrical system enough to keep up? It just doesn't make sense to me that the car would die out while it was running due to the battery. I can see it dying because of a failed alternator, but not the battery.
Before I found where that yellow wire went in, I was getting some wierd grounds & stuff on my e-brake, so I removed my turbo timer. I'm still not convinced that the TT was causing any problems, but it's out now & I'm not going through the hassle of splicing it back into my factory security system again.
Confusing, I know. I know it looks like a lot of stuff to do for just a bad battery, but seeing all the indications in person I was confused as well. I gotta thank Justin, Mario and Jeff again for giving her a hand while I was out.
Because all of the lights & accessories were still working, it seemed the battery was still good at first. From there, the troubleshooting went to the starter. It was taken out & tested, and tested out just fine. To make sure, my wife put a new battery in, and it still didn't work. I think the reason the new battery didn't work, is because when the starter was reinstalled, the yellow wire (signal from relay) wasn't plugged back in. Once I plugged that wire in yesterday & jumped the car, it turned over on the first time.
To back up my theory on the bad battery, I only need one question answered. When the car is at idle, is the alternator still charging the electrical system enough to keep up? It just doesn't make sense to me that the car would die out while it was running due to the battery. I can see it dying because of a failed alternator, but not the battery.
Before I found where that yellow wire went in, I was getting some wierd grounds & stuff on my e-brake, so I removed my turbo timer. I'm still not convinced that the TT was causing any problems, but it's out now & I'm not going through the hassle of splicing it back into my factory security system again.
Confusing, I know. I know it looks like a lot of stuff to do for just a bad battery, but seeing all the indications in person I was confused as well. I gotta thank Justin, Mario and Jeff again for giving her a hand while I was out.
12-20-2004, 01:35 PM
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I'm glad to see that everything is working now man. Congrats, So i hear that they is a TT give away?? LMK 
12-20-2004, 10:11 PM
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i had a similar problem with the battery and i came to the conclusion that if the battery is below the suggested voltage it wont charge even with the alternator charging it i dont know how to explain it but i had that same problem. Checked the battery while the car was running with a volt meter and it showed 14.7 volts but i could get the car to start at a long time of rest. Well im glad its all back together again just let me know if there is anything else i can do for you jason.
12-20-2004, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mario
I'm glad to see that everything is working now man. Congrats, So i hear that they is a TT give away?? LMK